Blank Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 (edited) The way I see it is, hasn't Heaven always been reffered to as being above us, and Hell, below us. Well, we have been above us, and have learned a good deal about below us. There was no evidence of a Heaven, nor a Hell. So, then it changes. "It was just symbolism." I just have trouble believing something that can be taken literally one minute, then symbolic the next. That is however, my skewed perspective. I don't pretend to know about religious text. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In the Bible you see the word "heavens" meaning the sky as we see it. like, the birds are flying in the heavens. but there are also other meanings for it, like how God resides there. I've always thought that there was a spiritual plane of existence, which explains why we can't see demons running around and stuff, neh? so what limits heaven to being a physical place? just our own preconceptions. our souls are what live on, not our bodies. And Pixies, i back you up on your belief about beliefs. Gabs, I understand you wished to communicate your point in the manner of a raised voice but perhaps it was a tad unnecessary and could possibly upset a young forum member's nerves... you know there are those of a delicate disposition that post here And, you need not apologise for not being Christian or Muslim, everyone is different But "shouting" someone out isn't very nice and could easily offend someone. I guess it's a good job Mr. Pixies is a nice fellow <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that compassionate speech almost brought me to tears DL, Edited January 6, 2006 by Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Gabs is a fairly straight forward person that cuts right through the bull. I find that refreshing but other times it can be a little unnerving. Gabs reminds me too much of my ex, at least in her lucid moments. The question of does god exist or not that sort of thing can never be quantified for it is a personal matter. Some of us jus need belief and faith. Others need a more tangible evidence. Others think that god is an all good omniscient being. Others see him as an uncaring creator that gave us enough free will to hang ourselves just for his amusement. There is no right or wrong answer in this and there will never be one. It all matters to the individual and trying to convince others that your way is the right way is what leads the wars and death that has taken place over the thousands of years. You have faith in god and saved, that is all well good. "Now keep it to yourself," as Jack would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 I was reading a book and this thought came to me. God seemed pretty active in the Old Testement, smiting people, taking sacrifices, cursing people and socialize with his faithful followers. After the OT he seems to have kept a low profile and has not been active, seen, or heard from. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I was reading a book and this thought came to me. God seemed pretty active in the Old Testement, smiting people, taking sacrifices, cursing people and socialize with his faithful followers. After the OT he seems to have kept a low profile and has not been active, seen, or heard from. Why? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If there is a god, like in the old testiment, what makes you so sure we could understand that god's reasoning? People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreptishus Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 My relatively uninformed opinion: He was acting through jesus and the whole tone changed from the OT to that of forgiveness. Love thy neighbour and turn the other cheek and stuff. As to why there is a difference? The OT and NT were compiled by different sets of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I was reading a book and this thought came to me. God seemed pretty active in the Old Testement, smiting people, taking sacrifices, cursing people and socialize with his faithful followers. After the OT he seems to have kept a low profile and has not been active, seen, or heard from. Why? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because the New Testament and Christianity were influenced by Buddhism? By the way, at one point in its evolution this thread discussed free will. I heard a really good radio programme this week on the 'great debate' between Erasmus and Martin Luther about free will - for those who are interested: here. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 I find it curious that god suddenly lost his voice to his faithful. Starting after the death of Jesus up to now, his followers need him the most with all of the "evil" that runs rampent in the world. Where is he now? Dead? Gave up on his creation? Let his evil half control the world for the time being? *I don't believe in any god, just trying to see why people have faith in a being who doesn't seem to give a damn about them any more.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_i_am Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 So your personal god is the concept of an absence of god? (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreptishus Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I find it curious that god suddenly lost his voice to his faithful. Starting after the death of Jesus up to now, his followers need him the most with all of the "evil" that runs rampent in the world. Where is he now? Dead? Gave up on his creation? Let his evil half control the world for the time being? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> WHo said God doesnt speak to his followers? A religious person will likely believe he or she is in constant contact with God, everything that happens is God's will. So God still speaks to the faithful though not as you would understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepixiesrock Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) I find it curious that god suddenly lost his voice to his faithful. Starting after the death of Jesus up to now, his followers need him the most with all of the "evil" that runs rampent in the world. Where is he now? Dead? Gave up on his creation? Let his evil half control the world for the time being? *I don't believe in any god, just trying to see why people have faith in a being who doesn't seem to give a damn about them any more.* <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Many people would disagree I would imagine. For all of this evil there is just as much good though. Maybe you just choose not to see it. People also claim to see miracles and stuff. People see God/s where they want to, and don't see God/s where they don't want to also. Surreptishus beat me to it then. Edited January 13, 2006 by thepixiesrock Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 So your personal god is the concept of an absence of god? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is no god/s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_i_am Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Exactly, and that is your god. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 WHo said God doesnt speak to his followers? A religious person will likely believe he or she is in constant contact with God, everything that happens is God's will. So God still speaks to the faithful though not as you would understand it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> God/Allah I'll use the Muslim for of their gods name, speaks through his people and tells some of them it's ok to sacrifice themselves through suicide to kill the infidels? Take out as many as you can regardless if they are men, women or children? To use a christian example, to condemn your neighbor, falsly most of the time, and accuse them of witchcraft, being in league of satan, they must die. God wills it to be done said the church leaders who claimed to heard ir from god himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepixiesrock Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 WHo said God doesnt speak to his followers? A religious person will likely believe he or she is in constant contact with God, everything that happens is God's will. So God still speaks to the faithful though not as you would understand it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> God/Allah I'll use the Muslim for of their gods name, speaks through his people and tells some of them it's ok to sacrifice themselves through suicide to kill the infidels? Take out as many as you can regardless if they are men, women or children? To use a christian example, to condemn your neighbor, falsly most of the time, and accuse them of witchcraft, being in league of satan, they must die. God wills it to be done said the church leaders who claimed to heard ir from god himself. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because that is the case with the majority of religious people. Hell, I can't even walk out of my house most of the time, on a count of livin' by so many of the religious types. Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreptishus Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 WHo said God doesnt speak to his followers? A religious person will likely believe he or she is in constant contact with God, everything that happens is God's will. So God still speaks to the faithful though not as you would understand it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> God/Allah I'll use the Muslim for of their gods name, speaks through his people and tells some of them it's ok to sacrifice themselves through suicide to kill the infidels? Take out as many as you can regardless if they are men, women or children? To use a christian example, to condemn your neighbor, falsly most of the time, and accuse them of witchcraft, being in league of satan, they must die. God wills it to be done said the church leaders who claimed to heard ir from god himself. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Conversely what about all charity and aid given in god's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 How do you know charity is going to the poor and not lining the pockets who make up those organizations? Yes I acknowledge there are good charity communities that actually do give to teh needy but there are many that take it and keep it for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepixiesrock Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 How do you know charity is going to the poor and not lining the pockets who make up those organizations? Yes I acknowledge there are good charity communities that actually do give to teh needy but there are many that take it and keep it for themselves. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How do you know this? What is your source? Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreptishus Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yes, like all things in life there is good and bad. Which side you want to focus on is down to you and only you but it is unfair to take an unbalanced view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 but there are many that take it and keep it for themselves. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Non-profit organizations are subject to regulations too. They would not withstand a few audits, if what you are saying was the case, and we would see many of them close down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) but there are many that take it and keep it for themselves. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Non-profit organizations are subject to regulations too. They would not withstand a few audits, if what you are saying was the case, and we would see many of them close down. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True, but also true is they can buy off the auditor, have them look the other way as a few hundreds are stuffed in their pockets. Edited January 13, 2006 by Gabrielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Wow, and I thought I was cynical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Nobody ever gives credit to man when credit is due. A plane (sort of) crashes and everyone survives, likely due to the proper execution of emergency proceedures and it is considered a miracle. When 12 people die in a mining accident it's due to man's gross incompetence, even though hundreds of people gathered in nearby churches to pray to their god for the safe return of the miners. God will not save man. Man will save man (or destroy man). Has anyone else heard of the philisophical question: "Can god create a rock that not even he can lift?" "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Arkan is right about that. Thing is most people can't just accept things happen for totally random reasons. There has to be some power at work for why things happen the way they do. Some people just can't handle the truth that this is a totally random and uncaring universe and always look for something to explain the unexplainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_i_am Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 wait, since when did the only deffinition of god become 'divine being'? (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Theres no God because bad stuff happens. Of all the considerations for there not being a god this has to be the most silly. It seems that most who really "hate" the idea of there being a god are those most unappreciate of their position. People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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