Creating your own PnP rules system

[Jediphile]

Word. That is exactly how I handle XP too. First, I as the DM, handle all the XP after the session as one of my responsibilities. Second, not only do I hand out story XP awards, but Ialso grant XP awards for good roleplaying. The contribution from these two together tends to be greater than the XP gained from combat alone. This is actually a great way to enforce a non-combat game and get your players to think creatively instead of resorting to combat as a first instinct.

 

And with that said.. This is probably a valid point to make in jorian's thread... If you don't mind Jediphile I am copying this and posting it there.

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Sure, go ahead - see if I care... :D

 

Seriously, in AD&D, the xp progression requirements are so massive at higher levels that the players advance very far unless you give out hefty awards like that. Then again, I don't entirely follow the rest of the rules either. After all, the rules state that I must also give out an xp award based on the value of gear and treasure (and coins) equal to the gp value in 2e. I don't do that, since I believe finding treasure and magical items is a reward onto itself, nor do I want to reward players for simply carrying as much as they can back to town with them - that's just silly and counterproductive to the role-playing experience, I think.

 

But the story goal xp awards I give out more than compensate for this. I do usually tally up the total, then double it, triple it, and then give ten times that... And the players still find progress slow, at which point I explain exactly why they have little reason to complain

[Jediphile]

Ive been working on my damage/health system lately and I came to the conclusion that a level-based health system(like in WW's VtM) was not right for this game as it oversimplified things and also took away alot of the fun about combat.

 

 

So now Ive come up a hybrid system )

 

 

 

you now have HP like every other RPG but they are divided into intervals who decide what the consequence of that damage is, just like a level-based health system would. You also dont scratch HP but write up the damage recieved, this makes it simpler to handle.

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Well, in the interest of avoiding derailment, I'll just ask how the hp-system is going to work.

 

It's not that I really find the notion of a point-based health system bad, I just find the way D&D accumulates hit points illogical and stupid. On the other hand, they did have a hit location system in Twilight 2000 (I think it was that, but I could be wrong...), where each body part had a number of points dependent on the the character's Health attribute (and the relevant part) which dropped by health levels as the character was injured. That was a pretty simple, good, and logical system.

[Zachech]

I use a hitpoint system mixed in with some other variations, such as location. when random, the location of an attack is picked by the amount of damage done. what i mean is if a character attacks and deals 30 damage then i say the attack hit a more vital area, where as 1 damage is a mere skin scratch. characters can also aim for a specific location if they want penalties to their accuracy. location also has other effects, so that large damage to the arm for instance can cut off an arm, etc. large amounts of damage always cause bleeding damage every turn thereafter, and bleeding damage from different wounds stacks up. so basically what I have is lots of hp and weapons that don't do quite as much damage proportionately, but as a fight goes on different wounds impair a character in certain ways and all of the penalties and bleeding damage quickly causes a character to be defeated, rather than hitting the character enough times to lower their hp to 0. in real life you don't take twelve hits and then die, you might take 3 and then start to lose your focus and your cool as you bleed all over the place, and then eventually the 4th strike will kill you.

 

in general in my RPG's I try to combine the generic, restricting D&D rules with more sensible, White Wolf type rules mixed with just some plain storytelling to make stuff a blend of rules, sense, and smoothness.

[metadigital]

That takes a lot of annoying focus on xp away from the game, especially if you're used to players who will hunt down every last little orc just because he's worth a few xp...

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[Kaftan Barlast]

Well, in the interest of avoiding derailment, I'll just ask how the hp-system is going to work.

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What it does is split your HP pool into 3 intervals, 0% 33% 66% (examples, not actual intervals) and each interval brings a set of penalties to reflect how the damage taken affects the characters ability to act and think. These intervals are written out on the character sheet so you wont have to remember wether your "injured" interval begins at 8 or 9

 

This far there is only one HP pool for the entire body. It might be a good idea to have separate pools for each bodypart with a general pool to determine how the total damage taken affects you through bloodloss and pain.

 

 

The RPG I was brougt up on, Drakar & Demoner v.1991* had separate damage pools for each limb, chest, belly and head.

 

 

 

*random detail: the game borrowed some classes from D&D like monk or bard but these were completely different in that the monk was a christian-model monk with no combat skills whatsoever and that the bard was simply just an entertainer with no combat skills or magic. thus, a D&D player who went over to this swede system was in for a nasty surprise

[Jediphile]

Well, in the interest of avoiding derailment, I'll just ask how the hp-system is going to work.

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What it does is split your HP pool into 3 intervals, 0% 33% 66% (examples, not actual intervals) and each interval brings a set of penalties to reflect how the damage taken affects the characters ability to act and think. These intervals are written out on the character sheet so you wont have to remember wether your "injured" interval begins at 8 or 9

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This sounds similar to the encumbramce/fatigue/channelling magic system combined as described in 2e PHB and the player option books Combat & Tactics and Spells & Magic respectively.

 

I use myself in my 2e campaign, except that penalties are imposed at 75%, 50%, 25%, and 10% of max. hp, and finally the most severe category for characters at only a single remaining hp.

 

I combine them, however, so that if you have one penalty from encumbrance, one from casting a spell (which is considered fagituing to the character), and a third from injuries or wounds, then these all accumulate to a more severe overall penalty, because body is taxed in several directions at once.

 

 

This far there is only one HP pool for the entire body. It might be a good idea to have separate pools for each bodypart with a general pool to determine how the total damage taken affects you through bloodloss and pain.

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Well, keeping it in one hp pool would keep it closer to my AD&D system (though I do use hit locations, after a fashion), while keeping the hit locations separate puts it closer to the system of Twilight 2000, which is also very workable. That would presume that a character can still be perfectly good at using his other limbs after his leg (or arm) is crushed, which is not unreasonable, so long as the injury is not so massive that it puts the character into shock or extreme pain.

 

The RPG I was brougt up on, Drakar & Demoner v.1991* had separate damage pools for each limb, chest, belly and head.

 

*random detail: the game borrowed some classes from D&D like monk or bard but these were completely different in that the monk was a christian-model monk with no combat skills whatsoever and that the bard was simply just an entertainer with no combat skills or magic.  thus, a D&D player who went over to this swede system was in for a nasty surprise

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Ah, I've heard of it and even have players who know and love it, though I've never played it myself. Sounded a little similar to GURPS from what someone described to me, yes?

[Lancer]

I personally like the hit location system in GURPS where you have separate hp pools for every body part. The hp for each body part is determined as being a certain fraction of total hp.

 

Also each body part had a unique attack roll penalty to reflect just how much more difficult it would be (i.e.) to hit the eyes as opposed to the main body and so on and so forth..

 

The d6 system also had alternate hp-interval rules much like what Kaftan describes here.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Lancer

[Kaftan Barlast]

My system uses just three health levels/intervals because each level brings with it a whole bunch of penalties and having 5 levels would just make it harder to manage without really adding anything. Also my system measures damage recieved, not health points. This is because the brain does addition faster than subtraction and so a player will be able to calculate that having been hit for 4 points and then 8 makes 12 total damage points an checking that against his damage levels faster than if he had to subtract the damage from his Health points.

 

 

I will have an encumberance system if the advanced rule section but its separate from the health levels even though it might be more realistic to have them interact. As this system is made for play in a contemporary enviroment, there is naturally no magic whatsoever. (and the combat focuses on firearms)

 

 

 

I havent actually thought about the similarities between Drakar&Demoner (1991 edition, all the editions had new rulesets) and GURPS. It has more in common with GURPS than D&D f.ex in that it doesnt use abstracts like AC(or THACO) but thats where the similarities end.. it uses d20 and not d6's

[Shadowstrider]

I created a rules system.  Its new hotness.  Combat is fast paced, and strategic.  Slow downs only occur after a battle, when people tally up all the XP.  The system was actually made for CRPGs, but testing it in PnP actually made me believe it was better for PnP.  The system is fairly straightforward and characters end up entirely unique from one another.

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Why do you need to tally the XP after every battle? Why not at the end of every session? Is it because you want to allow the option for skills to improve during the session?

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Generally there is not a lot of combat during a session. However, yes I do allow players to improve, or train their skills immediately following a battle. In the system I developed, once a skill reaches a certain interval the players are allowed to take on new abilities associated with the skill. Abilities can improve the skill rating, grant synergy bonuses to other skills, improve a combat manuever, or a slew of other things that can drastically change a character.

[Jediphile]

My system uses just three health levels/intervals because each level brings with it a whole bunch of penalties and having 5 levels would just make it harder to manage without really adding anything.

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Well, I do see your point. All the "light" category did in the Player Option system was to restrict the character to 75% of his normal maximum movement rate - that's not really worth the bookkeeping...

 

Also my system measures damage recieved, not health points. This is because the brain does addition faster than subtraction and so a player will be able to calculate that having been hit for 4 points and then 8 makes 12 total damage points an checking that against his damage levels faster than if he had to subtract the damage from his Health points.

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This sounds akin to the "should AC go up or down" argument that has been on this board recently. Not that I want to revive it, but I don't quite agree that addition is easier. I've both added damage together and subtract from the hit point pool in my time, and I really can't say it made much difference either way... ymmv

 

I will have an encumberance system if the advanced rule section but its separate from the health levels even though it might be more realistic to have them interact. As this system is made for play in a contemporary enviroment, there is naturally no magic whatsoever. (and the combat focuses on firearms)

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While a complex system is precise, it's usually pretty cumbersome. Though I do have the AD&D encumbrance system IMC, I don't often use it except in "surprise inspections" of the PCs

 

I usually presume that they just keep an eye on it themselves and then tell me if they don't. Then again, if I find my trust is misplaced during a "surprise inspection", there is a price to pay indeed - trifle not lightly with the kindness of the GM!!

Edited February 10, 2006 by Jediphile

[metadigital]

*random detail: the game borrowed some classes from D&D like monk or bard but these were completely different in that the monk was a christian-model monk with no combat skills whatsoever and that the bard was simply just an entertainer with no combat skills or magic.  thus, a D&D player who went over to this swede system was in for a nasty surprise

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Boy, those games must have been a hoot. What issues did the characters overcome, balancing their cheque book and ensuring they had enough logs for the fire?

Well, in the interest of avoiding derailment, I'll just ask how the hp-system is going to work.

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What it does is split your HP pool into 3 intervals, 0% 33% 66% (examples, not actual intervals) and each interval brings a set of penalties to reflect how the damage taken affects the characters ability to act and think. These intervals are written out on the character sheet so you wont have to remember wether your "injured" interval begins at 8 or 9

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This sounds similar to the encumbramce/fatigue/channelling magic system combined as described in 2e PHB and the player option books Combat & Tactics and Spells & Magic respectively.

 

I use myself in my 2e campaign, except that penalties are imposed at 75%, 50%, 25%, and 10% of max. hp, and finally the most severe category for characters at only a single remaining hp.

 

I combine them, however, so that if you have one penalty from encumbrance, one from casting a spell (which is considered fagituing to the character), and a third from injuries or wounds, then these all accumulate to a more severe overall penalty, because body is taxed in several directions at once.

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That makes sense if you also give bonuses, e.g. for adrenaline. Adrenaline prevents pain from being felt and gives extra strength and agility in the heat of battle (of course the effeccts are only short lived).