The Military

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I don't want the US to act like it.  We need to take care of our own people first instead of going to wars over lies or send resources to other countries when they are needed at home.  We need leadership in the US that puts the US first.

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Wasnt that Georges plan prior to 9/11 ?

[Judge Hades]

Before 9/11 I don't think he had a plan.

[BattleCookiee]

Tell that to the farmers who were murdered or had their land siezed. The people might welcome them. But it's not like the regimes have not burned down schools (sometimes with the people still in them). What I dont agree with is aid that goes with some sort of religious message. Then again If I was starving I'd probably be less choosey.

 

Guess they really won't due things like that if the world has agreed on heavy sanctions if that happens.

 

I doubt it somehow although the training may have not been good. It would have been parts that were a problem.

 

There was just no training in the past. It is a pretty recent thing to do that.

Machinery is complicated. Just try a non-technical person to open a PC-Case and do usefull stuff, no way they can do it... Let stand even more advanched technical stuff...

 

Sure you can force them. But then thats no different from what is going on in Iraq , forced democracy. So how can you be in favour of one and not the other?

As I said I'm not against it in principle. But if it were my army I would focus on wiping out the dangerous threats first.

 

But who says you need to use military force? If you give economical sanctians and reduction of help-cash if they do not support, and you are backed up by the other countries in the world (UN) they could be easily persuaded to agree.

We with Holland did pretty dictatorial stuff in Indonesia. Killing 100.000's of people to keep our leadership there and preserve the resources they would "give" to us. Then the US came, supported by many other European Countries and the UN, forcing us to back off or get sanctians, or had to pay large parts of our debt back.

It wasn't long after before Indonesia became independant, and there wasn't a single US-Soldier that set foot on our country to do so...

 

I don't want the US to act like it.  We need to take care of our own people first instead of going to wars over lies or send resources to other countries when they are needed at home.  We need leadership in the US that puts the US first.

 

I would not go as far as to what you said before (stop all aid and military support, and get companies back on the US soil). You may not like it, but the US is dependant on the world, and the world is dependant of the US, how we might despise your current Military and Nationalistic Policies. Backing up like that would surely collapse American economy (especially if you call all corporations back, which should not even be possible anyway actually) and cause other mayhem.

 

And also note that we do not hate the US because it is big and has alot of power. We only hate it because currently they use it wrongly. ALOT.

You didn't hear many bad words about the US when Clinton was in office, but now that Bush rules you can not walk without hearing US-Critisism where-ever you are...

Edited December 20, 2005 by Battlewookiee

[Judge Hades]

This would be my plan:

 

First, recall all US troops from all foriegn countries and bases. Remove all funding and aid going to all other countries. Remove ourselves from the UN and NATO.

 

Secondly, redeploy troops to protect US borders and territories. Illegal immigration into the US will be penalized by death. Legal immigration will remain unchanged.

 

Third, with withheld resources create a superfund to boost the US economy from within and work on a plan to make sure everyone in this country is above the poverty line and medically covered.

 

Fourth, make sure all loans from other countries and foreign organizations are repaid in full in a 3 to 6 month time frame. If a nation cannot repay then all assets of that country and its citizens that are within the borders of the US are to be siezed by the US and applied to that debt.

 

Fifth, keep the economic side of things such as importing and exporting of goods untouched and privatised.

Edited December 20, 2005 by Judge Hades

[Cantousent]

You would summarily kill illegal immigrants? :Eldar's shaking his head with an irritated grimace icon:

[Surreptishus]

You know what Hades? before you implement your grand master plan - read a book on economics.

[Gabrielle]

This would be my plan:

 

First, recall all US troops from all foriegn countries and bases.  Remove all funding and aid going to all other countries.  Remove ourselves from the UN and NATO.

 

Secondly, redeploy troops to protect US borders and territories.  Illegal immigration into the US will be penalized by death.  Legal immigration will remain unchanged.

 

Third, with withheld resources create a superfund to boost the US economy from within and work on a plan to make sure everyone in this country is above the poverty line and medically covered.

 

Fourth, make sure all loans from other countries and foreign organizations are repaid in full in a 3 to 6 month time frame.  If a nation cannot repay then all assets of that country and its citizens that are within the borders of the US are to be siezed by the US and applied to that debt.

 

Fifth, keep the economic side of things such as importing and exporting of goods untouched and privatised.

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I like it already.

[Judge Hades]

You would summarily kill illegal immigrants?  :Eldar's shaking his head with an irritated grimace icon:

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Illegal immigration is a huge problem and there needs to be strict deterents for such acts. All legal immigrations options would be unchanged. If someone wants to move into this country to work and live, then have them do it legally.

[Dark Moth]

Boy am I glad Hades doesn't run the country.

[Judge Hades]

If I was the majority of the US citizens would be better off than they are now. Such as my view on health care would be following more on Canada's model and I would do drastic changes to the education system in this nation. Such as redistribute the days spent in school that it revolves in a whole year affair instead of 3 months off in the middle.

Edited December 20, 2005 by Judge Hades

[Gabrielle]

You would summarily kill illegal immigrants?  :Eldar's shaking his head with an irritated grimace icon:

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Illegal immigration is a huge problem and there needs to be strict deterents for such acts. All legal immigrations options would be unchanged. If someone wants to move into this country to work and live, then have them do it legally.

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I disagree. No immigrants period. Stay out. America for Americans. We need to take care of our own without worrying about some foreigner moving in, stealing our jobs, get tax breaks and other things.

Edited December 20, 2005 by Gabrielle

[Judge Hades]

I won't go to that level of extreme for some of the best people in our history like Albert Einstien, Alexander Hamilton, and the such have been immigrants but did so legally.

[Dark Moth]

Yeah, death for illegal immigration. That's a real bright prospect for our country's future. You might want to stop living in your fantasy world sometime and learn what real life is like. Above all: isolationism like what you proposed never works. History has proven that time and again.

[Delta Truth]

(Judge Hades @ Dec 20 2005, 06:42 PM)

(Eldar @ Dec 20 2005, 02:47 PM)

You would summarily kill illegal immigrants?  :Eldar's shaking his head with an irritated grimace icon:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Illegal immigration is a huge problem and there needs to be strict deterents for such acts. All legal immigrations options would be unchanged. If someone wants to move into this country to work and live, then have them do it legally.

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree. No immigrants period. Stay out. America for Americans. We need to take care of our own without worrying about some foreigner moving in, stealing our jobs, get tax breaks and other things.

 

Unless your native American where the hell do you think you came from- A bit naive or maybe just stupid- Immigration is the backbone of any country - I believe if people are gonna move to the U.S then why should they get a free ride- while other who choose to do it legally wait years and years, so no to illegal immigration, but yes to legal immigration

 

So but alot of immigrants have come to America to have the opportunity to live in a life where they have a chance to not be pinned down in constant poverty

Edited December 21, 2005 by Delta Truth

[Judge Hades]

Again, you think that I am proposing isolationism when I am not. All I am proposing that we do not interfere militarily or financially with the development of other countries. Fair trade for food, fuel, electronics, medical supplies would continue as normal. You want something we have then you pay for it in goods of your own or other resources.

 

I am just eliminating the handouts.

 

EDIT: Delta Truth, what happened 200 years ago is irrelevant today. 200 years ago women couldn't own property. Do you think we should keep that tradition? I just wish to eliminate illegal immigration. Those people should either immigrate legally or do their best to improve their lives and the lives of their country men within their own borders.

Edited December 21, 2005 by Judge Hades

[Delta Truth]

Again, you think that I am proposing isolationism when I am not. All I am proposing that we do not interfere militarily or financially with the development of other countries. Fair trade for food, fuel, electronics, medical supplies would continue as normal. You want something we have then you pay for it in goods of your own or other resources.

 

I am just eliminating the handouts.

 

EDIT: Delta Truth, what happened 200 years ago is irrelevant today. 200 years ago women couldn't own property. Do you think we should keep that tradition? I just wish to eliminate illegal immigration. Those people should either immigrate legally or do their best to improve their lives and the lives of their country men within their own borders.

 

I don't think that rational of women owning property is arguable- Since we have advance, hopefully we have advanced since 200 years- I don't disagree with your arguement totally Hades - Illegal immigration should be stopped as it is not advantagous to either the American or immigrant you will be exploited no doubt. I do believe the government should be more open in allowing legal immigration- Too many people are be turned away that could be productive citizens(more qualfied people I mean)

 

But then you have to get to the cause of why people are willing to risk there lives to come to the U.S. in the first place- the U.S. does not have a clean hand they interfered in Mexican and Central American politics which had an effect on the peoples lives- having a government that was a puppet was more important then respecting neighbouring countries - Its to late the U.S. can't all of a sudden revert back to a isolationism

 

But my main gripe was with the comments on stopping all immgration- legal or not

[Judge Hades]

I am not proposing isoloationism, just the elimination of interference, for good or ill, in other coutnries. Hell, I have friends who legally immigrated into this country. The Brit I know is a very fine gamer and comes up with interesting characters. Unfortunately he wastes his money on Yugi-oh cards.

Edited December 21, 2005 by Judge Hades

[Dark Moth]

I am not proposing isoloationism, just the elimination of interference, for good or ill, in other coutnries.  Hell, I have friends who legally immigrated into this country. The Brit I know is a very fine gamer and comes up with interesting characters.  Unfortunately he wastes his money on Yugi-oh cards.

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You are proposing isolationism. The only thing you're not giving up is trade, which in no way means it's not isolationism. Trade is a necessity for any country's economy. If we didn't trade with other countries, we wouldn't be able to supply ourselves with everything we need. Your proposal promotes little more than apathy and indifference to the outside world. Let me ask you a question: if you saw a guy getting mugged in the street, and you were perfectly able to help him, would you help him, or just walk off like nothing happened? For a country such as ours, isolationism simply will not work.

Edited December 21, 2005 by Mothman

[Gabrielle]

Xenophobia.

 

Trade and diplomatic ties is the only thing I would keep.

[Judge Hades]

We shouldn't have the weight of the world on our shoulders. Other countries need to stand on their own or fall on their own. Interference have caused more harm than any sort of good. We aren't the nursemaids of the world.

 

As for your example I mind my own business. If I had the means to call the police I would but beyond that I wouldn't interfere. Being the hero is a good way of getting you killed. Just ask the 2000 soldiers we have lost in Iraq while those give the orders are safe at home.

[Dark Moth]

We shouldn't have the weight of the world on our shoulders.  Other countries need to stand on their own or fall on their own.  Interference have caused more harm than any sort of good.  We aren't the nursemaids of the world.

 

As for your example I mind my own business.  If I had the means to call the police I would but beyond that I wouldn't interfere.  Being the hero is a good way of getting you killed.  Just ask the 2000 soldiers we have lost in Iraq while those give the orders are safe at home.

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Yeah, just let someone die. That is the epitome of apathy. Live in your own safe and happy bubble. You'd be no better than the mugger/killer. Maybe you should also ask the soldiers who fought/died in WWII what they thought, too. I'm sure Hitler would have loved it if you lead the U.S. then.

[Gabrielle]

A country will not evolve on their own if we keep sticking our nose into their business.

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Prime Directive?

 

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Yes.

[Judge Hades]

Bringing up the past is irrelevant. I rather deal with the issues we have today. As for WW2 we were attacked by Japan and Germany was an ally of Japan. If you ask me we were too lenient in our counter attacks. Once we had the atomic bomb we should have crushed the enemeies permanently and without mercy. Once those responsible for the attack on us were eliminated I would have simply continued on as normal.

 

Such as the attack on 9/11. I would have hunted down every single Al Qaeda member and cell till every single one of them were dead. I wouldn't capture them. I would kill them and I would not be detoured by Iraq til Osama Bin Ladin was dead. After of which I would have our troops come home and continue as normal.

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

Bringing up the past is irrelevant.  I rather deal with the issues we have today.  As for WW2 we were attacked by Japan and Germany was an ally of Japan.  If you ask me we were too lenient in our counter attacks.  Once we had the atomic bomb we should have crushed the enemeies permanently and without mercy.  Once those responsible for the attack on us were eliminated I would have simply continued on as normal.

 

Such as the attack on 9/11.  I would have hunted down every single Al Qaeda member and cell till every single one of them were dead.  I wouldn't capture them.  I would kill them and I would not be detoured by Iraq til Osama Bin Ladin was dead.  After of which I would have our troops come home and continue as normal.

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Very well stated... I agree... Osama should have been caught, tride (For political reasons), and hung...

[Gabrielle]

He should have been hunted down and killed. Killed by one of his own, a fellow Arab/muslim, so as not to make a martyr out of him.