The Religion Thread

[Dark Moth]

I believe you misinterpreted what I meant.  What I wrote referred to the scope of people targetted, not who was being targetted.  In other words, Christian extremists don't target doctors and nurses in general, just ones whom they see as "heretical", like those mentioned.  I only stated that because your post might be interpretted as saying that Christians target doctors and nurses in general, and I was only trying to clarify that.  I in no way meant that it was okay to kill an abortion doctor or that their lives are worth any less, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

With that out of the way, I reiterate everything I said in my previous post.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No I believe I was spot on and now you will wriggle uncomfortably.

 

By your own words you said that the murder of abortion doctors and nurses was less wrong than the murder of another doctor or nurse. This is a value your so religion has led you to adopt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*sigh*

 

I'll try to explain this once more. You in no way have me "spot on". I in no way meant it was less wrong to kill an abortion doctor. I meant it was a big step down in the number of attacks that might occur. If you look at my post, one of my main points was that the frequency of attacks on doctors was very small, almost a rarity. I then said that the type of doctors they target was only a small group, hence the amount of attacks would be much less frequent. In other words, the frequency of attacks on abortion doctors would be a lot less than if they attacked doctors in general. I in no way meant it was okay to kill abortion doctors, period (I even mentioned the 5th commandment to show Christianity doesn't condone these killings). I don't condone it, nor does the Christian right. It was a poor example and a poor wording on my part, and I apologize for the misunderstanding and anyone whom I may have offended.

 

If you still don't believe me, then I guess I can't change your mind. You'll only have to take my word for it.

Edited December 11, 2005 by Mothman

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

(I even mentioned the 5th commandment to show Christianity doesn't condone these killings).  I don't condone it, nor does the Christian right.  It was a poor example and a poor wording on my part, and I apologize for the misunderstanding and anyone whom I may have offended. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Would that be why you have chaplains in combat ? Odd way not to condone something if you ask me.

 

Anyway if those are your views, those are your views, unlike christianity I have no compulsion or wish to change your way of thinking.

 

I will explain why I took it so seriously though if someone asks.

[Janmanden]

I thought it was "God hates FAQs", but reading one such as forum guidlines before making such a sig would be a go(o)d idea.

[thepixiesrock]

I went down to the beach and saw Kiki and she was all like "Eeuuhhhh." and I'm like "Whatever." Then this chick comes up to me and she like "Hey aren't you that dude?" and I'm like "Yeah whatever." So later I'm at the pool hall and this girl comes up to me and is like "Awhhh" and I'm like "Yeah whatever."

 

Cause this is my United States of Whatever!

Yeah this is my United States of Whatever.

[Kinslayer]

Whatever.

[Musopticon?]

You forgot the police officer.

[thepixiesrock]

Whatever.

[Gabrielle]

Spam!

[Reveilled]

I went down to the beach and saw Kiki and she was all like "Eeuuhhhh." and I'm like "Whatever."  Then this chick comes up to me and she like "Hey aren't you that dude?" and I'm like "Yeah whatever."  So later I'm at the pool hall and this girl comes up to me and is like "Awhhh" and I'm like "Yeah whatever." 

 

Cause this is my United States of Whatever!

Yeah this is my United States of Whatever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you'll find that when I went down to the beach and saw Kiki, and she was all like "Eeuuhhhh", then I was in fact like "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!".

[Musopticon?]

I thought of posting that too.

[julianw]

No , they are killing in gods name, thats good enough for me. If you want to not be associated with them , then you have to make the same efforts as muslims do not to be associated with terrorists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There might be a weak point in your association though. Religion is only one of the driving factors behind the conflicts in Middle East. The Muslims and the Jews are also fighting for lands and resources. The history of violence over the region and the bitter feud ensued have outgrown the shell of religion. I do agree that the difference in religion certainly worsened the situation and true Muslims must not show any sympathy for the terrorists and fight them if necessary just as true Christians must also fight their extremists who murder in God's name. However, neither Christianity nor Islam should be viewed as the sole source for any of the actions of their extremists since both religions condemn such acts on the harshest measure.

[tarna]

I believe you misinterpreted what I meant.  What I wrote referred to the scope of people targetted, not who was being targetted.  In other words, Christian extremists don't target doctors and nurses in general, just ones whom they see as "heretical", like those mentioned.  I only stated that because your post might be interpretted as saying that Christians target doctors and nurses in general, and I was only trying to clarify that.  I in no way meant that it was okay to kill an abortion doctor or that their lives are worth any less, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

With that out of the way, I reiterate everything I said in my previous post.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No I believe I was spot on and now you will wriggle uncomfortably.

 

By your own words you said that the murder of abortion doctors and nurses was less wrong than the murder of another doctor or nurse. This is a value your so religion has led you to adopt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm siding with what Mothdude is saying although he probably could have stated it a little better.

It's not condoned by mainstream Christianity to kill abortionists, however, if you want to simply count numbers, killing a few is 'better' than an epidemic of killing as many medical staff as you could lay your hands on. It could be worse. The entirety of a religion shouldn't be blamed for the 'sins of the few'. This is what many Muslims are having to put up with in the US because of the actions of a few and it isn't any more right in this instance either.

 

Would that be why you have chaplains in combat ? Odd way not to condone something if you ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To provide spiritual support for those that follow Christianity under less than desirable circumstances.

I used to do a lot of volunteer work for a Christian church. Certainly not because I like Christianity. I did it because they offered spiritual and emotional support to a part of society that many wished would simply die as part of God's will.

It was a church that catered to gays.

Sometimes religious officials have to work under less than ideal conditions. The church may not support a war but they had better support those that get stuck in the trenches doing the fighting for their country.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

To provide spiritual support for those that follow Christianity under less than desirable circumstances.

I used to do a lot of volunteer work for a Christian church. Certainly not because I like Christianity. I did it because they offered spiritual and emotional support to a part of society that many wished would simply die as part of God's will.

It was a church that catered to gays.

Sometimes religious officials have to work under less than ideal conditions. The church may not support a war but they had better support those that get stuck in the trenches doing the fighting for their country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Isnt the idea of a commandment that you follow it ? I mean it's not like it says "thou shalt not kill.... Unless you can think of a good reason".

[tarna]

Isnt the idea of a commandment that you follow it ? I mean it's not like it says "thou shalt not kill.... Unless you can think of a good reason".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the original was "Thou shalt not murder".

[LoneWolf16]

Isnt the idea of a commandment that you follow it ? I mean it's not like it says "thou shalt not kill.... Unless you can think of a good reason".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the original was "Thou shalt not murder".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So...killing is.....ok?

[Blank]

Isnt the idea of a commandment that you follow it ? I mean it's not like it says "thou shalt not kill.... Unless you can think of a good reason".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the original was "Thou shalt not murder".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So...killing is.....ok?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He is simply clarifying what the commandment was, nothing else. although, i think when clarifying it, he implies that "kill" and "murder" are two different words and therefore have different meanings, but similar meanings sometimes too.

 

the oxford dictionary says:

"kill: v. 1 cause the death of 2 put an end to or destroy"

"murder: n. 1 unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by another

v. 1 kill (a human being) intentionally and unlawfully"

 

so you have a square and rectangle thing going. by definition a rectangle is a quadrilateral with four right angles.

and a square is an equilateral rectangle. so a square is always a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square. ?Entiendes?

[Musopticon?]

Sorry for being a voice of moral here, but as far as I understood when reading the bible; killing is a Bad Thing. You kill, you go to hell. Now, you catholics could interpret it whicever way you want, but us reformed heathens try and refrain from killing stuff. Unless that stuff is trying to eat you.

[Reveilled]

Newere translations of the bible, like the NIV, list it as Thou shalt not Murder, which certainly makes sense given how many laws in Leviticus have death as a punishment. Since it's God's command telling you to do it (supposedly), it isn't unlawful, so it is killing, but not murder.

 

Supposedly.

[Musopticon?]

Wanky.

[Hell Kitty]

If we are all God's children, then no matter how many excuses we give to justify our killing, I doubt he's gonna be happy with us killing our brothers and sisters.

 

I never much cared for the arrogance of claiming that God would be okay with your killing.

[Reveilled]

If we are all God's children, then no matter how many excuses we give to justify our killing, I doubt he's gonna be happy with us killing our brothers and sisters.

 

I never much cared for the arrogance of claiming that God would be okay with your killing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dunno. I'm pretty sure my deity's okay with me killing in self defence.

[Musopticon?]

You know, if it fails in the end and I end up in hell for some obscure reason, like not hallowing the sabbath; I'll gladly burn there. I'd rather have a talk with Pyrrhos and Nietzche while suffering purgatory than spent eternity in a paradise of an inane religion.

[Hell Kitty]

I'm pretty sure my deity's okay with me killing in self defence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was something I used to think about back when I was a good little Catholic boy. Would God look think it okay for me to kill in self defense, or would the only "right" think to do, to truly take the moral highground, be to lay down and die? If I truly believed in God then I had nothing to fear from death, as it would simply bring me closer to God sooner rather than later.

[Hell Kitty]

You know, if it fails in the end and I end up in hell for some obscure reason, like not hallowing the sabbath; I'll gladly burn there. I'd rather have a talk with Pyrrhos and Nietzche while suffering purgatory than spent eternity in a paradise of an inane religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If we are judged by a vengeful deity, then every male who has gone through puberty is doomed.

[Reveilled]

I'm pretty sure my deity's okay with me killing in self defence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was something I used to think about back when I was a good little Catholic boy. Would God look think it okay for me to kill in self defense, or would the only "right" think to do, to truly take the moral highground, be to lay down and die? If I truly believed in God then I had nothing to fear from death, as it would simply bring me closer to God sooner rather than later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, but Eris doesn't bring to heaven those who were unable to appreciate the gift they were given in this life, as they would therefore surely be unable to appreciate the gifts of the next life. Thus, if I allowed myself to be killed, I would be sent to hell for not defending the gift I was given.

 

Of course, I'm not Christian, so maybe those arguments don't apply to my god, but I can see a case for permissable killing in Christianity by virtue of the fact that there is a case for it in my religion.

Edited December 12, 2005 by Reveilled