The Language barrier

[metadigital]

OR

 

you could use the original Chinese Taoist word Qi (

• traditional:

齊,
simplified: 齐;
noun : the circulating life energy that in Chinese philosophy is thought to be inherent in all things;
in traditional Chinese medicine the balance of negative and positive forms in the body is believed to be essential for good health),

in the same way that Renaissance scholars went back to original classical sources to minimise the errors due to cumulative transliterations.

 

This is what Socrates referred to as the Fifth Essence (quintessence).

 

Do either of those words have a better Swedish equivalent?

[Janmanden]

Playing a Yin or Yan Jedi and use the wu-hsing powers is...uh, an alternative to LS/DS and the force, and might work in the chinese/japanese language setting, but it's really no different than using the original name convention since they are already *known* (like dakkon would *know* it) metaphors.

[metadigital]

Well, Mr Lucas plagerised the idea of the Force from the Taoists, so it should work! (The SW story he plagerised from E.E. Doc Smith's classic SF Lensman series. q.v.

reference one;
reference two;
reference three)

[Janmanden]

Yeah sure and mr. Lucas was obviously present (along with 2 other dudes bringing presents, because they had followed that funny star above the house) when I was born and saw all that squeeling raw power, how blue my face was because I was choking in slime and how red my face turned when I got infuriated...which gave him the idea for Stars and the colors of the force.

 

Well... Fantasy and D&D are so full of funny concepts that have become household names almost, shouldn't be that much of a problem to think up some new labels in different languages to cover the SW terminology instead of attempting lame translations.

[Tigranes]

meta: each word, indeed, any construction of a lingual nature carries with it both 'literal' and 'atmospheric' meanings inseparable from its mode of language and the cultural background. Technically trnslations are possible (although Alliance Francais has been know to make some seriously awkward translations of things like 'jeans' and 'rock&roll'), but end up untenable for daily use.

 

Best example: Lord of the Rings. In contemporary english-speaking culture, the word "ring" has the capacity to both connote the 'mood' of jewelry, of luxury, but also on the other hand magic, power, fantasy and mysticism. In Korean, we have a word for "ring". Have for centuries. Problem is, our word solely and completely connotes the jewelry ring, so that Lord of the Rings in Korean sounds absurd. It would be like calling it Lord of the Necklaces (as opposed to, say, Amulets), or Lord of the Earrings.

[Kaftan Barlast]

And In sweden we have no word suitable for "Lord" so the Swedish translation is called "The Tale of the Ring"

Edited November 26, 2005 by Kaftan Barlast

[Janmanden]

We do in danish: "Ringenes Herre" which is a direct proper danish translation of "Lord of the Rings". I would have thought the swedish translation would have been "Ring(swedish genitiv) Herrar"

 

The 3 books are however named differently than their english counterpieces and it makes sense, because it simply sounds better in danish than a direct translation.

 

edit: some episode titles snuck in.

Edited November 26, 2005 by Janmanden

[metadigital]

True, but is is possible, as you indicated

[Musopticon?]

Sagan om Ringen, Kaf?

[Kaftan Barlast]

Yeh, Sagan om Ringen, Mus.

 

 

..and "saga" is a very nice word so i actually like the swede title better than the original because it has a more schwung.

[Musopticon?]

Me too, ever since I saw the swedish/finnish musical in Svenska Teatern in Helsinki which was titled so. Was quite good, but of course I was a horrible fan back then.

[metadigital]

Never!

[Musopticon?]

What?

[metadigital]

You were a horrible (I take it this means incorrigible) fan ... I would never believe it!

[Musopticon?]

A Sagan om Ringen -fanboy of the higher calibre. Reader of Sindar, Performer of Many Faps over Undomiel. The Fanatic.

 

Is that clearer?

[Vashanti]

Ich bin eine Orc.

[Atreides]

You guys are too uptight. Take Engrish for example. You've just got to laugh with the group, or at least at them. Then post pics.

[Janmanden]

Luxury and rocking are 2nd nature to danes...

 

A lot of the races, skills and spells encountered in D&D and LOTR are easily translated to danish, because they are common to us from Norse mythology (that also lend inspiration to D&D and LOTR) and other things but all the things that are outside of your national 'domain' pose a minor problem. Thanks to the waves of Harry Potter and national Spiritual/Ghost programs the language is still expanding and new contexts are made. Contexts are very important for translating english RPG to your own tongue, whether you make them yourselves or not.

 

But I guess it might be a problem for other cultures that are not so closely bonded with those realms of fantasy.

[Walsingham]

Somebody was telling me that in Dutch 'Darth Vader' was basically 'Dark Father'. Which kind of blew the surprise in the second film.

[Janmanden]

Well, Vader also means Father in german, but darth is neither german nor dutch.

[Tigranes]

Meta: That is the point. For Necklace, Amulet exists (in english): so do numerous other counterparts. For Korean, for Ring, there exists NO word that can do this. Some archaic subtitute may be discovered, but that is equivalent to using 15th century English in a translation: there is no word that is known by even a significant minority that can convey enough sense of being both "ring" and being "magical" to qualify.

 

And other examples must exist.

[Spider]

And In sweden we have no word suitable for "Lord" so the Swedish translation is called "The Tale of the Ring"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, this is incorrect. The collective name of the trilogy is "H

[Kaftan Barlast]

This is really arguing details but the big letters on the front of the book always say "Sagan om ringen" with "trilogin om h

[Spider]

On the first book, yes. If you buy The Two Towers, "Sagan om Ringen" is nowhere to be found.

 

I'm sure you're right when it comes to collected editions though, haven't payed attention to those.

 

And I agree with common conversation, but that's only because "Sagan om Ringen" is a much better name than "H

[metadigital]

Meta: That is the point. For Necklace, Amulet exists (in english): so do numerous other counterparts. For Korean, for Ring, there exists NO word that can do this. Some archaic subtitute may be discovered, but that is equivalent to using 15th century English in a translation: there is no word that is known by even a significant minority that can convey enough sense of being both "ring" and being "magical" to qualify.

 

And other examples must exist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um, I don't see an overwelming problem with using an obsolete / coining a new word for a concept that has no equivalent transliteration in the host language.

 

After all, that's what English does all the time. Schadenfreude. (I'm currently ruminating through a book called "Tingo", which is a collection of foreign words that have no equivalent in English. The premise of the book is to gain a glimpse of the various peculiarities of cultures that have specifically named odd events and things. The eponymous noun is an Easter Island word for the process of gradually borrowing more and more items from a friend's house, until nothing remains, for example.)

 

To use an existing word that has completely the wrong connotation, without some sort of priming, seems to be a little silly. Or lazy. Or both. :D