What's with the cameos?

[Nur Ab Sal]

Bastila fits in K2 story perfectly: on Korriban her hologram says that she's going to find Revan and that's a good start: you could later meet her in game and she could join your party on her quest. So that element was totally unexploited. And I think that she would still have more to tell than Goto or Hk47. Especially considering that K2 party members have very thin development and life stories.

 

I would make a good use of her: in K2 no one was as capable warrior as she. Handmaiden and Visas are very weak, and I really miss Bastila's murderous lightsaber!

[alanschu]

Right, Handmaiden is "weak" all right

 

Thank goodness there was no Bastila joining your party quests. Her time has past, moving on people.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Kind of the Drizzt and crew cameo in BG 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At least you could attack and kill that muppet.

[Zulu 86]

Oooh no, Carth and Bastila's participation in K2 was just about fine. I played K2 before K1 and it does stand alone fine. I only got K1 because I enjoyed K2 so much (I then discovered I enjoyed K1 even more...) - I mean I could just about guess that Carth and Bastila had something to do with K1, and had no idea about Canderous or the Droids. I think it works very well that way - considering that realistically, the Exile would have little or no knowledge of what happened in K1 either. While after playing K1 I did get concerned about what happened next to the minor characters, but I didn't think they all needed to turn up in the second game.

[Matadore]

Bastila fits in K2 story perfectly: on Korriban her hologram says that she's going to find Revan and that's a good start: you could later meet her in game and she could join your party on her quest. So that element was totally unexploited. And I think that she would still have more to tell than Goto or Hk47. Especially considering that K2 party members have very thin development and life stories.

 

I would make a good use of her: in K2 no one was as capable warrior as she. Handmaiden and Visas are very weak, and I really miss Bastila's murderous lightsaber!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First off, when she tells you she went in search of him, you wouldn't have found her anyways, because Revan went beyond the "Outer Rim" into uncharted space to fight the "true" Sith, or something like that. Besides, that would have been just plain stupid... cause if that were the case, the only logical place you could have met with her would be on Malachor V. But you only get that Bastila holocron if you chose Revan as a Dark Side character.

 

I know Obsidian wanted to break apart from KOTOR I with a new storyline and all, but that's not really a sequel... that's a game with poorly placed characters from the "first" game to try to validate it as a sequel. The one element in the Star Wars universe that is the "constant" are the droids. So, it wan't a big surprise that you'd have T3-M4 & HK-47 in your party. But when George Lucas made the Empire Strikes Back, he didn't write in Luke Skywalker with a small cameo part and have some unknown guy with C-3PO & R2-D2. So, I think you should have gotten more background on the KOTOR I characters in KOTOR II and I think the exile should have tied in with Revan somehow. But, it doesn't really matter anymore, does it? The game has been out for 8 months (for us X-BOXers), and you really can't change it, so we just have to hope they can tie it all together in KOTOR III, and LA needs to give them plenty of time to do that.

[Zulu 86]

Problem is, to make it stand alone, the main character has to start from nothing and work towards progressing to something great - that might not be like how films work, but it is how games just have to work. I can't think of any way they could really do K2 differently. The Exile had to be completely devoid of the force and had to rediscover it, and for it all to make sense while working into an ongoing storyline, the Exile may as well have been living under a rock for quite a while, and the people the Exile meet and fight with have to be (roughly) brand new. I mean, if you fought along side such as powerful Jedi such as Bastila, Juhani or Jolee as they were at the end of K1, then the game would be a piece of piss, da?

 

*hurtles off topic*

For K3 to fundementally work as a game, then it's all but impossible for the main character to be Revan or the Exile. I expect that (should there be a K3) the main character will be the apprentice of one of the existing Jedi characters - probably Bastila, or perhaps one of the Exile's companions - although the latter may make too many assumptions, I mean, when I first played K2 I never got round to converting any of my companions to Jedi or Sith. The main character will then eventually discover enough about Revan and the Exile, he/she goes off to fight with them - perhaps fight the enemy and defeat it where Revan and the Exile have perhaps failed?

Then we may have more "cameos" because it will make more sense - everything will be (required to) tie up. That's not quite the same in K2.

Just a thought though.

 

Although games sometimes have to make an assumption and make them final. I mean, look at Red Alert 2, the whole premise of that game made the assumption that I didn't fight for Mother Russia first time round, and then they make the same rediculous assumption come Yuri's Revenge...

[Matadore]

Well, this isn't Red Alert 2... this is KOTOR II. And the Star Wars "universe" is based on consistancy. Doesn't matter if its a game, book, comic, movie... whatever. It started from the movies, then the "expanded universe" arose, and the main thing writers had to be aware of was the consistancies to the existing material while trying to create new "adventures". Might include new characters, etc... but it all ties in somehow. That's the point I was trying to make. I wasn't saying the main character for KOTOR II was bad... some exile from who knows where... I kinda expected it to be similar to KOTOR I with some character who has a blurry past, and is just kinda thrown into the game. I'm just saying you should have found out during the course of the game that Revan and the Exile tied in somehow... other than the loose association that Kreia was Jedi Master to both of them. And having all new companions is fine... but one of the biggest questions players had not too long after the game came out was "What happened to Mission?"... or Zaalbar, or Jolee Bindo, or Juhani. Because their stories matter. They didn't have to be in your party, but it would have been great to run into them somewhere in the game. Yeah, KOTOR II stands alone without having to play KOTOR I... but that's really kinda pointless, and doesn't equal to a sequel. (I can rhyme... woo... " ) That's why I'm hoping KOTOR III ties everything together... and the main character doesn't have to be Revan or the Exile... but you should encounter both of them in the game. So, anyway... that's my thoughts on the subject.

[Zulu 86]

Well, this isn't Red Alert 2... this is KOTOR II. And the Star Wars "universe" is based on consistancy. Doesn't matter if its a game, book, comic, movie... whatever. It started from the movies, then the "expanded universe" arose, and the main thing writers had to be aware of was the consistancies to the existing material while trying to create new "adventures". Might include new characters, etc... but it all ties in somehow. That's the point I was trying to make. I wasn't saying the main character for KOTOR II was bad... some exile from who knows where... I kinda expected it to be similar to KOTOR I with some character who has a blurry past, and is just kinda thrown into the game. I'm just saying you should have found out during the course of the game that Revan and the Exile tied in somehow... other than the loose association that Kreia was Jedi Master to both of them. And having all new companions is fine... but one of the biggest questions players had not too long after the game came out was "What happened to Mission?"... or Zaalbar, or Jolee Bindo, or Juhani. Because their stories matter. They didn't have to be in your party, but it would have been great to run into them somewhere in the game. Yeah, KOTOR II stands alone without having to play KOTOR I... but that's really kinda pointless, and doesn't equal to a sequel. (I can rhyme... woo...  " )  That's why I'm hoping KOTOR III ties everything together... and the main character doesn't have to be Revan or the Exile... but you should encounter both of them in the game. So, anyway... that's my thoughts on the subject. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was only using Red Alert 2 as an example - to tie everything together, eventually they're gonna have to draw a line and say an event with multiple possible outcomes in one of the previous games will have to have had a definite outcome come K3. That's mostly just to answer people talking about for instance killing off Bastila or (like myself) neglecting to train any of the Exile's companions in the ways of the Force.

 

Anyway, I think the game just about makes it clear that the Exile does tie in fine with Revan, but otherwise, I mean, theoretically, Obsidian could have chosen to set TSL anywhere between a week or several millenia after the end of KOTOR 1. There's no reason to show off any of the original characters for the game to work. It's a fine line between making ongoing fans happy, and confusing brand new fans with references they don't get. Like I said, I was very concerned about what happened to Mission and the others (after I came back to TSL after playing KOTOR 1), but at the end of the day, whether they all live on Kashyyk, wander the Outer Rim aimlessly, or are all pushing up the daisies - they are not going to impact much on the Exile are they? Not like Carth and/or Bastila who knew Revan the best - and even then, investigating Revan is not the Exile's main priority. I mean you could see it like this:

 

Carth: I'm Admiral Carth Onassi, I served alongside Revan five years ago.

Old Fan: Wahey! It's Carth!

New Fan: Okay, I'm interested in Revan, what have you got to say?

 

Carth: Oh, I ran into Mission the other day, she's doing fine!

Old Fan: Awwww

New Fan: Who!?!

 

And the way I see it, the New Fan's reactions are as close to those that I would expect the Exile's would be.

I know that the old characters could be inserted a little bit more subtly than that, but I mean, you have to have (mostly) new characters, what is the point giving too much time up to the old characters when they serve nearly no purpose to the actual game? TSL may (try to) be a sequal, but it is a game first and foremost, and for it not to be an expansion pack, it cannot depend on too much of the previous game for it to make sense.

[Guest MacleodCorp]

After I played KOTOR II along side KOTOR I, Obsidian added to the polygons. Since adding to character polygons takes time, I think that adding in the original cast would have only hindered progress. If they had another year, who knows what type of game we could have had? However, I think there hands were too busy with upgrading the allready in game designs, influence engine, and story. Yeah, I would have like to see more of the old cast, but it wasn't really necessary.

[Matadore]

Hence the "cameo" appearance... you don't really take up too much time on the companions from KOTOR I, but you know what became of them. And there are ways to slide them into the game without making it awkward, like those "scenarios" you came up with. Anyway, the game is already made, so there's no use in continuing the "what ifs" or things that should have been. Just got to hope they get it right in KOTOR III.

[Matadore]

TSL may (try to) be a sequal, but it is a game first and foremost, and for it not to be an expansion pack, it cannot depend on too much of the previous game for it to make sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm... TSL is first and foremost the sequel to KOTOR I... otherwise, they should have made a totally new game, instead of "upgrading" (to a point) BIOWARE's format and should have placed it in a different timeframe than 5 years after the events in KOTOR I. But, they didn't, and its not far-fetched to think that characters from the 1st game should appear in some capacity in the 2nd. A sequel means "a literary, dramatic, or cinematic work whose narrative continues that of a preexisting work", so it doesn't mean its an expansion pack. So, it being a game is just the medium that KOTOR was presented on... but to call it KOTOR II means it is a sequel to KOTOR I.

[kirottu]

Hence the "cameo" appearance... you don't really take up too much time on the companions from KOTOR I, but you know what became of them. And there are ways to slide them into the game without making it awkward, like those "scenarios" you came up with. Anyway, the game is already made, so there's no use in continuing the "what ifs" or things that should have been. Just got to hope they get it right in KOTOR III.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don

[Zulu 86]

TSL may (try to) be a sequal, but it is a game first and foremost, and for it not to be an expansion pack, it cannot depend on too much of the previous game for it to make sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm... TSL is first and foremost the sequel to KOTOR I... otherwise, they should have made a totally new game, instead of "upgrading" (to a point) BIOWARE's format and should have placed it in a different timeframe than 5 years after the events in KOTOR I. But, they didn't, and its not far-fetched to think that characters from the 1st game should appear in some capacity in the 2nd. A sequel means "a literary, dramatic, or cinematic work whose narrative continues that of a preexisting work", so it doesn't mean its an expansion pack. So, it being a game is just the medium that KOTOR was presented on... but to call it KOTOR II means it is a sequel to KOTOR I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's not quite what I meant. If Obsidian wanted, they could have made a sequel where we all play as Revan again along with all the others - just like the actual films - but that don't work in games (not in this sense anyway) so you have to understand that Obsidian had to draw the line at a certain point in relation to references to the first game. TSL has to adhere to the general dos and don'ts of its media before it can concentrate on its ongoing story line.

[Nur Ab Sal]

I like K2 general storyline but I think that Obsidian should put more effort in developing interesting roles for K1 crew. So far only Canderous Can received some logical and coherent development.

[kirottu]

I like K2 general storyline but I think that Obsidian should put more effort in developing interesting roles for K1 crew. So far only Canderous Can received some logical and coherent development.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why? It would be weird if some names would just keep popping up in every conversation... Pfft, I say! It was good choice to let Obsidian make their own game and not carry bioware

[Nur Ab Sal]

Becouse 80% of TSL buyers are guys who earlier bought KOTOR.

[kirottu]

Becouse 80% of TSL buyers are guys who earlier bought KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And 100% of those want to see nude pictures of Bastila.

 

Case Closed.

[Sabahattin Dere]

just a quick reminder: You can get a cameo appearance of Bastila if you chose the LS/Male option for Revan as well. (T3 plays a epIV-Leia style holo if you can get to fix him)

 

Compared to the Korriban appearance, she says practically the same thing about where Revan went, if I remember correctly; *but* again if memory serves me right, there was a hint of more info. concerning the true sith.

[Krookie]

Becouse 80% of TSL buyers are guys who earlier bought KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And 100% of those want to see nude pictures of Bastila.

 

Case Closed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hot coffee mod in K2? Where?

[Nur Ab Sal]

Becouse 80% of TSL buyers are guys who earlier bought KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And 100% of those want to see nude pictures of Bastila.

 

Case Closed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw nude Bastila already thanks to K1 mods. You don't have to be so agressive.

[Matadore]

That's not quite what I meant. If Obsidian wanted, they could have made a sequel where we all play as Revan again along with all the others - just like the actual films - but that don't work in games (not in this sense anyway) so you have to understand that Obsidian had to draw the line at a certain point in relation to references to the first game. TSL has to adhere to the general dos and don'ts of its media before it can concentrate on its ongoing story line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, it does work... but then again, I never said I wanted to play as Revan again, did I? Nope... I said I figured the same type of character who is actually Jedi would be exploited again, which it was with the exile. But they kept Revan into the story... heavily into the story, as a matter of fact. I'm just saying that appearences by ALL of the companions from KOTOR I should have been included. That's all...

 

And kirottu... I meant exactly what I said. It was literal and not subject to assumptions by you. I mean, they need to make it right: complete characters' storylines, fix all gameplay bugs, and tie everything in so its not just 3 mostly unrelated Star Wars games that just happen to mention characters from the previous ones.

[Zulu 86]

Actually, it does work... but then again, I never said I wanted to play as Revan again, did I? Nope... I said I figured the same type of character who is actually Jedi would be exploited again, which it was with the exile. But they kept Revan into the story... heavily into the story, as a matter of fact. I'm just saying that appearences by ALL of the companions from KOTOR I should have been included. That's all...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never said you wanted to play as Revan again - all I'm saying is that there's no real reason why any of the previous characters be involved or even mentioned. The series seems to be following both directly and indirectly the path of Revan - where he/she came from, and where he/she is going to. The Exile, probably being one of Revan's closest followers up to Malachor (I seem to remember that Revan appointed the Exile as a General to be in charge of the Mass Shadow Generator) would naturally be concerned about what has happened to Revan, but you have to draw a line - considering that in realistic terms, the Exile just wouldn't know about the rest of Revan's companions, and as it seems the Universe it out to get the Exile, the Exile probably couldn't care less. Carth and Bastila add a little bit of intrigue to what has happened to Revan, as I think it clearly opens up a huge question mark that can only be answered by a third game - it all serves a greater story arch - that's their only role in TSL. I just don't know what any of the other characters - with the exception of Canderous and the Droids since they're there anyway - could have added to this, so what's the point including them?

That's just my opinion though.

[Nur Ab Sal]

And what's the point in including Visas or Goto? Some excuse for old party members could be found as well.

[Zulu 86]

Hey, I never said the current setup was perfect

 

I think G0t0 for sure had a much bigger part before LucasArts got involved(

I think he's behind all the HK-50 units and he's trying to bend the Galaxy to his own way of thinking for pete's sake

), and technically Visas could play a significant role - being the link between the Exile and the nasty nasty Sith guy intend on devouring everything. Who knows, perhaps with better development time, Obsidian could have found a decent way of inserting all the characters from the first game, but it is still my opinion that their is not necassarily any reason for them to be there except to make fans happy. If Bioware made TSL, then perhaps they would have saught to include them, but then again, this is Obsidian, I'm sure they're rather focus on their own characters.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Well I'd be totally happy if such interesting characters like Visas, Atris and Nihilus got more development time as well if old ones got interesting cameos.