G-Phoria: KotOR II - Did they earn it?

[GhostofAnakin]

anyway, these are not even plot holes, plot holes is when you have to do something, and you can't do it (like the hk factory (not the damn droid planet)

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No.

[Guest MacleodCorp]

Cut Content - this is not a plot hole. However, when ObsidianEnt. edited the game, to get rid of the cut content, they accidently made plot holes. Otherwords, they didn't remove all the lines, which lead you to the 'Droid Factory'.

 

KotOR I Vs. KotOR II: Tech Errors - Yes! KotOR I did have glitches, but KotOR II had way more glitches. If you were to read BioWare's, ObsidianEnt's, and Lucas Arts' forums, there are extrodinary more glitches in KotOR II than in KotOR I. Plus KotOR I's glitches were added to for more than a year, and KotOR II's glitches occured in the first six months.

 

KotOR II's RPG of the Year Competition - KotoR II's competition was very weak. Except for 'Jade Empire'. If you look at it from a technical side, the competition was 'BioWare' vs. 'BioWare'. Either way 'BioWare's' name is connected to KotOR, for they made the engine, base characters, and praticle application for the KotOR series. I think KotOR II desirved to be recognized, but I am still in shock that 'Jade Empire' did not win. I think there are more 'Star Wars' fans than 'BioWare' fans, which made the voting a little questionable. Quality vrs. What is popular... Complicated. Star Wars has about 20 years of roots, and BioWare was created in fairly recent history.

[Dark Moth]

The fact is, the plotholes GOA listed (except for Bastila walking around Taris) are pure speculation that CAN be disputed, whereas most of the K2 plotholes are genuine plotholes, no contest (ex. the droid factory). As for Kreia and Mira, you can't say she didn't want Mira specifically to help the exile for a couple reasons:

 

1. If that were so, Kreia would have also done something to the other party members.

 

2. Mira didn't help the exile anyway, so you can't say that she foresaw Mira helping the exile. Unless she enlisted Hanharr to prevent that from happening, but even still, but then again, how could she have found the exile in the first place in time, anyway? And you can't say Mira would be most capable of helping the exile just becuase she was a bounty hunter. Atton was a Sith interrogator, he was skilled at killing Jedi. Visas was already a full-fledged Jedi, and you'd think she would be more capable than Mira.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Mothman

[darknesslord]

anyway, these are not even plot holes, plot holes is when you have to do something, and you can't do it (like the hk factory (not the damn droid planet)

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No.

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no? well sorry I thought a plot was the center of a story line, and when you stop hearing about it, or when you can't fnd what you need to continue the quest, then obviously you cant finish it . but maybe I was wrong :ph34r:

[Guest MacleodCorp]

The fact is, the plotholes GOA listed (except for Bastila walking around Taris) are pure speculation that CAN be disputed, whereas most of the K2 plotholes are genuine plotholes, no contest (ex. the droid factory).  As for Kreia and Mira, you can't say she didn't want Mira specifically to help the exile for a couple reasons:

 

1.  If that were so, Kreia would have also done something to the other party members. 

 

2.  Mira didn't help the exile anyway, so you can't say that she foresaw Mira helping the exile.  And you can't say Mira would be most capable of helping the exile just becuase she was a bounty hunter.  Atton was a Sith interrogator, he was skilled at killing Jedi.  Visas was already a full-fledged Jedi, and you'd think she would be more capable than Mira.

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Very good point!

[GhostofAnakin]

The fact is, the plotholes GOA listed (except for Bastila walking around Taris) are pure speculation, whereas most of the K2 plotholes are genuine plotholes, no contest.  As for Kreia and Mira, you can't say she didn't want Mira for a couple reasons:

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There you go stating "facts". Do you even know the difference between a plot hole and a glitch or cut content or a broken quest?

 

Plot hole is exactly what it says. A HOLE in the PLOT (ie. story). How is the droid planet a HOLE in the PLOT? It leaves you wondering why you couldn't complete it, but it doesn't leave you thinking "this makes the story make no sense!"

 

Make up your mind what you're debating with me about, because the things you listed aren't all plot holes. Some are, but some are cut content, some are glitches, and some are just broken quests.

 

The two things I mentioned are PLOT HOLES in K1 because they leave you thinking "wait a minute...that contradicts what I know so far".

[darknesslord]

look, they never talked about the damn droid planet, their talking of the hk (droid) factory on telos

[GhostofAnakin]

look, they never talked about the damn droid planet, their talking of the hk (droid) factory on telos

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That's still not a PLOT HOLE. That's a broken quest.

[Dark Moth]

The fact is, the plotholes GOA listed (except for Bastila walking around Taris) are pure speculation, whereas most of the K2 plotholes are genuine plotholes, no contest.  As for Kreia and Mira, you can't say she didn't want Mira for a couple reasons:

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There you go stating "facts". Do you even know the difference between a plot hole and a glitch or cut content or a broken quest?

 

Plot hole is exactly what it says. A HOLE in the PLOT (ie. story). How is the droid planet a HOLE in the PLOT? It leaves you wondering why you couldn't complete it, but it doesn't leave you thinking "this makes the story make no sense!"

 

Make up your mind what you're debating with me about, because the things you listed aren't all plot holes. Some are, but some are cut content, some are glitches, and some are just broken quests.

 

The two things I mentioned are PLOT HOLES in K1 because they leave you thinking "wait a minute...that contradicts what I know so far".

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You mean, like you think that K2 for a fact had an influence system that worked well? And the droid factory only became a plot hole when they removed the quest from the game, for then you were left wondering where they HK-50's came from and who was building them in the first place. And without that quest, you still potentially had HK-50's running around hunting you. Without the cut content, it was never explained.

 

And I don't know what you're talking about, since I didn't mention any glitches in that post. And you still can't seem to name any other plotholes except for those three, two of which are debateable (Calo Nord + the interrogation scene).

[Guest MacleodCorp]

If we didn't know about the cut content, would we still have questions about: What happens next? I think knowing about the cut content only added wood to an allready burning fire...

[GhostofAnakin]

You mean, like you think that K2 for a fact had an influence system that worked well?    And the droid factory only became a plot hole when they removed the quest from the game, for then you were left wondering where they HK-50's came from and who was building them in the first place.  And without that quest, you still potentially had HK-50's running around hunting you.

 

I never said for a fact that influence worked well. I said it was a good added feature. Unlike you, I don't use my opinion as fact. *I* thought it was a good feature and deserved mention. And it worked how the developers wanted. The only thing debatable is how successful it was. But you use it as an example of something that is broken or incomplete. That's wrong.

 

And I don't know what you're talking about, since I didn't mention any glitches in that post.  And you still can't seem to name any other plotholes except for those three, two of which are debateable (Calo Nord + the interrogation scene).

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Yeah, well excuse me if I mix up posts. You try responding to about 5 different people harping in at various things said during the course of a 6 page debate. You've barely been able to keep up with providing ME with evidence, try having to do that when 4 other people are asking you to provide evidence for their questions too.

 

And again, when an argument supports your view it's "fact". But when it goes against your view (ie. my examples of K1) it becomes "debateable". Wonderful how that works.

 

ps. I'm done. I said my part. If you guys want to continue to bash TSL (and a Moderator being one of the main culperates on the developer's own forum no less) go right ahead. There's no point responding to 5 different people jumping in at various points.

[Miltiades]

Congrats OE. Maybe there was no real competition, but then again, if Kotor 2 would have been a bad game, they wouldn't have won it.

[Guest MacleodCorp]

After I played the game through, for the first time, the only problems I had were:

1. Lightsabers being unavailable.

2. Hollow ending.

 

Since I ran throught the game, without solving side quests, I thought the ending was the only thing lagging. When I went through the game for the second time, trying to solve sidequests, I started to find more questions than answers. I think the baase story is fine, but the ening sticks. However, the sidequests makes more questions, which complicated my experience with KotOR II.

[Guest MacleodCorp]

Come to think about it, I think there were practically no sidequests, for they all lead to the end story. In KotOR I, there were clear independant sidequests. In KotOR II, the side quests were more like 'choose your own adventure', which means they only added to the story.

[Musopticon?]

By the way; KotOR 1 was chosen as a rpg of the year too, yes? Was there any competition that time?

[Baley]

No.

 

Kult:Heretic Kingdoms deserved to win.

 

It destoys K2 both story wise and combat wise.

 

Of course they probably never played it.

 

Looks like console RPGs are the thing now.

 

*Hugs Kult*

[Marka Ragnos]

kotor2 is on pc too.

[Baley]

All the others are not.

 

And the XBox version was released first and had more succes.

[Krookie]

And the XBox version was released first and had more succes.

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...Hence the reason it won the award "

[Baley]

Gee and I thought it was about quality.

 

But hey looking back I see games like Morrowind,NWN,DS and Kotor winning,what can you expect? (btw this refers to RPG game of the year awards in general 3 of those examples were released in the same year.)

 

Bottom line awards like this mean 0,especially when they're dictated by the masses.

[Marka Ragnos]

I love morrowind. so fun to attack some random person. good times.

[darthbass123]

I loved the game simply because it was the sequel to the Game of the Year in 2003, so I immediately expected and knew that this game would win. However when I played and noticed all of the glitches, I doubted it and was a little surprised when it won. Now I'm in no doubt that they deserved it. . Great Job Obsidian!!!

[Krookie]

Gee and I thought it was about quality.

 

But hey looking back I see games like Morrowind,NWN,DS and Kotor winning,what can you expect? (btw this refers to RPG game of the year awards in general 3 of those examples were released in the same year.)

 

Bottom line awards like this mean 0,especially when they're dictated by the masses.

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The awards are based on what the fans think. Any game could have won. It's just what people like to play. In this case it was KotOR2.

[darthbass123]

Which was a great game. Sort of.

[Baley]

That doesn't imply quality just popularity.

 

It's like saying that K2 is the best RPG of the year because of its large fanbase.