Volourn Posted October 22, 2005 Posted October 22, 2005 Can you name players who won more cups than Sundin in the last 5-6 years? I sure can. Scoring a game winning goal in the 33rd game of the regualr season doens't make you the 'best clutch player' (or 2nd accoridng to you). I can name TONS of players - some thata re rertired and others who are still playin that are more of a clutch player than Sundin. btw, That doens't mean I think sundin sucks. He's a greta player; but he's not even in the top ten maybe not even in the top 20 of clutch players still playing in the NHL. And, no matter how many GWGs you cna list he has; it doens't change this fact. Espicially, getting a GWG in a 7-3 game prove snothing. LOL P.S. I didn't feel the need to research; but I seriosuly doubt he's the only player to do well in the GWG category. R00fles! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
mkreku Posted October 22, 2005 Posted October 22, 2005 So name at least ONE player that's a better clutch player than Sundin? You can name TONS. What the hell does that mean? A metric ton is 1000 kg. Tons is plural. Are you saying you can name thousands of better clutch players than Sundin? Good luck. Why don't you start by naming one active player that you consider as a better clutch player than Sundin? And please provide something to back up your opinion this time, as your bs is not good enough on these boards. And are you saying the only players who can be called clutch players are the ones with at least one cup to their name? That lessens the list of availible players a lot. I can't list a single GWG Sundin has. I haven't checked this stat myself, but I do watch (or listen to, this year.. grr) a lot of Leafs games and I have seen him play. I know for a fact that he must be among the top clutch players in the league, he's the best player under pressure that I've ever seen (except Claude Lemieux). His nickname "Sudden" doesn't all stem from his last name. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
alanschu Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 Ignores ignores! Don't give in to temptation!
Kor Qel Droma Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) I see Sergei Gonchar has scored his first goal of the season tonight. So far he's managed to double his season stats!! And Atlanta remembered how to find the back of the net tonight! Twice! Lets make that three as the game is now tied 3-3. Edited October 23, 2005 by Kor Qel Droma Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
Volourn Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 Steve Yzerman Jaromir Jagr Mario Lemieux Martin Brodeur Joe Sakic Game over. That's five. Sundin is a great player; but he's nowhere in their league when it comes to becoming clutch. What do each of these 5 have in common? Leading, and/or being a major contributor on dominating teams. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Hurlshort Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 I have to agree that Sundin isn't the best clutch player in the league. He's awesome, and he's helped the Leafs win when they didn't have a chance, but he's never led them to a cup. Clutch is coming through in the big games. Until he leads the Leafs to a Stanley Cup, he'll never be at the top.
mkreku Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 Steve Yzerman Jaromir Jagr Mario Lemieux Martin Brodeur Joe Sakic Game over. That's five. Sundin is a great player; but he's nowhere in their league when it comes to becoming clutch. What do each of these 5 have in common? Leading, and/or being a major contributor on dominating teams. Yzerman was a great player once. He's a non-factor now. Detroit is a great team though. Jaromir Jagr.. Yeah, he's won lots of cups since leaving Pittburgh. Let's see if his clutch play can bring a cup to New York. And since when are the Rangers a dominating team..? Mario Lemieux.. Another player who lives off his name. He's not really a clutch player anymore. And again, since when are the Penguins a dominating team? Martin Brodeur is a great clutch player. I'd put him on the list. Joe Sakic is also a great player, but we'll see how he does without Forsberg, Roy, Foote and a whole bunch of other stars. Not sure the Avalanche will be dominating anything this year. The reason I think Sundin is the better clutch player than these names mentioned (which aren't the best clutch players in the league right now, except for Brodeur and maybe Jagr) is that he's almost never been surrounded by talent, yet he keeps taking them to the playoffs and winning them games when they shouldn't. The fact that he hasn't won a cup has nothing to do with his clutch abilities, it has to do with the team. It is possible to be a good player on a bad team. Why else doesn't the best clutch player in the game (whoever YOU think deserves the title) win the cup every year? It's not that easy. This year, though.. Leafs all the way! ) Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Hurlshort Posted October 23, 2005 Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) I just really think in order to be considered a clutch player, you have to go all the way at least once in your career, and be a key player in that success. Yzerman took a decent team to the cup, but he scored critical goals when they were needed. Lemieux, of course, was a catalyst for a mediocre team. I wouldn't call Jagre clutch, because once Lemieux retired, he never pushed Pittsburgh to the top. I agree that Sundin is the better player right now than any on the list, except maybe Broduer, but I consider clutch a term given to a player after a long career of netting big goals, and at least one run to the Cup. Edited October 23, 2005 by Hurlshot
Kor Qel Droma Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Well Chris Simon scored two goals including the game winner in tonights game. I wouldn't put him on the list yet, however... Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
Kor Qel Droma Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 I have no response to that. At all. But with the clutch player issue, Mats Sundin was in a three way tie for first with 10 GWGs in 03/04. The year before that had eight. Just because they haven't made it to the finals doesn't mean he's not a great clutch player. Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
mkreku Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...93064&t=TS_Home 18 days and counting.. Geez, this is taking a looong time. I guess it's difficult to play when your pupil is red and your vision is blurry. Sigh. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Volourn Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 "Just because they haven't made it to the finals doesn't mean he's not a great clutch player." I never said he wasn'ta clutch player. I just said he wasn't the best clutch player. And, once again, GWG by themselevs mean nothing. Afterall, a GWG in an 8-3 win means crap. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Kor Qel Droma Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 And edmonton has sent their scapegoat of the month Ty Conklin down to the minors today and recalled Mike Morrison. Will this change be enough to light a spark under the Oilers collective asses? Tune in tomorrow to find out. Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
alanschu Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Oooo, that's news to me. I figured they'd do something though. This next game is big, and I'd say probably the defining moment for the team. If they bounce back after things finally all went to crap and play a convincing game and win on Tuesday, I'm still optimistic that things will turn out pretty good. Otherwise, it could be a long season.
mkreku Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Hmm.. there are like 70+ games left to play. They still have time to fix things even if the next game goes bad. I'm worried about the Leafs too. They were outskated, outmuscled and outplayed in the last game against the Flyers. Something has to change if they're going to keep winning games, even if they did have a four game winning streak going before the last game. And where the hell do they fit in Sundin? I am guessing he'll take Lindros' place in the first line, but where does Lindros go then? Second line, bumping down Allison to third? Or do they put their best goal scorer on the third line, with the grinders? And how about "the kid" line, the line that has so far been the best line of the Leafs (Steen, Stajan, Wellwood), where do they fit? It's like a puzzle with a lot of golden pieces that just doesn't seem to fit together. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
mkreku Posted October 24, 2005 Posted October 24, 2005 http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2202728 No surgery needed on Sundin's eye at least. But a re-evaluation early next week? I was hoping he'd be playing this week. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Hurlshort Posted October 25, 2005 Posted October 25, 2005 I'm in a deep depression over the Sharks...but it's still early. At least Marleau looks good, but Nabakov looked terrible before he got injured. Since when did the Sharks have the worst defense in the league? Hey, we are losing to the lame music thread guys, pick it up on the posting. Only 41 pages
mkreku Posted October 25, 2005 Posted October 25, 2005 Hey, we are losing to the lame music thread guys, pick it up on the posting. Only 41 pages Haha, I thought I was the only one going, "crap, they posted 12 new messages and are ahead of us AGAIN!".. ) Still, we are only like 4-5 guys who post here regularly. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Kor Qel Droma Posted October 25, 2005 Posted October 25, 2005 make that cool guys, Mkreku " Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
Deraldin Posted October 25, 2005 Posted October 25, 2005 (edited) *swears profusely* ARG! Stupid Gerber! Why did you have to play so well tonight? :angry: Edited October 25, 2005 by Deraldin
Kor Qel Droma Posted October 25, 2005 Posted October 25, 2005 Actually I like that this is one of the most on topic threads in way off topic. And as much as we all like to disagree with Volo he usually has a good point to add, even if the way he presents makes you want to choke. And I've been watching the last period of the Leafs/Bruins game. Toronto just tied it up a minute ago. Its been a nice hard fought contest. And highly entertaining to boot. And as a bonus I"ve got Thornton and Murray on one of my hockey pool teams. Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
mkreku Posted October 25, 2005 Posted October 25, 2005 I like the fact that Bryan McCabe (who was deemed too slow for the new NHL prior to the season) is now sharing the lead in scoring, together with the reinvigorated Jagr! Amazing stuff. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
Kor Qel Droma Posted October 25, 2005 Posted October 25, 2005 (edited) I still haven't decided if I like the shootouts, though. And Lindros scores the winnah in the shootout, you must be happy Mkreku. Edited October 25, 2005 by Kor Qel Droma Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie.
alanschu Posted October 25, 2005 Posted October 25, 2005 (edited) Hehe, never underestimate an eye injury. Tough to play when you cannot see. It's why people figured Berard was done. I still can't believe how many people had written off Belfour at the beginning of the season. 49 saves, including 24 in a single period. Give him the game ball for that one. Edited October 25, 2005 by alanschu
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