Story in games?

[metadigital]

I fear there is not Tetris Anonymous organization yet.

 

Perhaps it will be my calling in life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you were going to unite the tribes and kill until no Harkonnen breathes Arrakeen air, or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is his extra-currilcula calling-in-life.

[alanschu]

I always preferred the Harkonnen! They had cooler units in Dune 2 :D

[Walsingham]

I always preferred the Harkonnen!  They had cooler units in Dune 2 :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Aw, but c'mon! You've seen the film surely?

 

[music] Tan TAN TAN TAN Whiddlywiddlywee [/music]

 

"Long live the fighters!"

 

Still sends shivers up my spine.

[alanschu]

I've only seen the film once, and it was while playing the computer so I didn't really "watch" it. I was probably too young at the time to truly appreciate the type of movie it was, and was probably hoping for more direct on fighting and whatnot.

[metadigital]

They made a sequel?

[alanschu]

Dune 2 = video game = arguably the originator of the RTS series. Made by Westwood Studios waaaaaaay back in the day.

 

 

You had House Atreides, House Harkonnen, and House Ordos.

 

Harkonnen believed in superior firepower, and generally had the guys with the biggest guns. And their special weapon was a nuke! Although the special weapon of the Atreides was the Freman, which was pretty nice because they were autonomous Heavy Infantry (which were pretty powerful, had strong guns and a rocket pack as well) squads that would go around wreaking havoc until they were destroyed.

 

It was good fun!

[metadigital]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I see said the blind man to the deaf dog, as he waved his wooden leg.

[alanschu]

The version I had heard was:

 

"I see" said the blind man to his deaf wife while pissing in the wind. "It's all coming back to me now"

 

 

:D

[metadigital]

Whatever floats your boat ...

[Cantousent]

Give alan a break, you dog. At least he made an attempt! That's a sight better than the rest of us message board cowboys.

[LadyCrimson]

I don't even have the patience to read this entire thread, let alone a million boxes worth of text for in-game 'story'. Even the best RPG's, the vast majority of the 'story' comes from descriptions outside of the game and what the player puts into it with his/her own imagination.

 

I love to read books. When I want to be utterly lost in a world of imagination and what-if's I pick up one of those things.

When I just want to get away from reality or more active hobbies and whittle away hours with something that doesn't require a lot of intense thought or decision-making, I play games.

 

And there's the key to me. If I want to make decisions about entertainment/hobbies, I'd rather do my photography, or write my own fiction, or build a model car in the garage. Games to me have always been about escaping the pressures of having to make lots of decisions that will decide how something 'turns out'. I have to do enough of that in my life, and I don't find doing it in games very relaxing.

 

Which doesn't mean I don't appreciate plot twists and turns in games - my actual taste in games is fairly broad, with favorite games coming from almost every genre - I just prefer stories in them to be more like novels...where I'm not constantly being asked to make decisions will affect the way everything goes. I don't affect the way the story turns out in a novel I'm reading...and I don't care much if I affect the story in a game.

 

The point someone made early on that PC games and story aren't terribly compatible formats (or difficult to merge together, at any rate) is something I also agree with. I don't know if anyone remembers those youth books that had multiple endings and they'd say things like "if you pick choice A turn to page 125"....but I do, and I hated them. Awkward and takes you out of the 'story' by making you too aware that it's a story.

 

The way most games deal with 'story' (even the 'good' RPG's) remind me of those books, and thus even while I can love a game for the gameplay, I tend to ignore the story or think the method of game-story telling is tedious...clicking A B or C to get different arcs or being interrupted in action from watching a 2 minute movie every 5 minutes isn't story in my book and makes me too 'aware' that I'm not actually in the gameworld and only staring at a monitor and clicking a mouse.

 

Perhaps that's one reason the 'average gamer' doesn't tend to be greatly interested in story in games - most aren't serious role-players - they're just gamers. Chess and RISK and Monopoly etc. aren't roleplaying story oriented games....and I think the mentality of many 'average gamers' falls into that type of game-thinking...if I'm making sense.

[metadigital]

...

Perhaps that's one reason the 'average gamer' doesn't tend to be greatly interested in story in games - most aren't serious role-players - they're just gamers.  Chess and RISK and Monopoly etc. aren't roleplaying story oriented games....and I think the mentality of many 'average gamers' falls into that type of game-thinking...if I'm making sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"... Chess and RISK and Monopoly etc. aren't roleplaying story oriented games ..." The games you mention may not be strictly story-oriented, but certainly there is a degree of roleplay (Chess is a wee bit more abstracted from the orginal battle and it therefore almost a sublime extrapolation of game law, and so we can probably leave that to one side, especially as I doubt a lot of video game players play chess ...)

 

Is that what you meant?

[alanschu]

I disagree.

 

Many average gamers seemed to really like KOTOR. In fact, many have mentioned that it was their gateway into the world of RPGs. And KOTOR also featured choice.

 

Granted, not everyone is going to like a game like Planescape: Torment, which is very story intensive and very dialogue heavy.

 

And I think that if a game does a good job of making a story that allows choice, then the choices will seem transparent IMO.

[LadyCrimson]

Is that what you meant?

 

Since I have no real clue what you're trying to say in relation to what I was saying, I don't know.

 

There is, IMO, a difference between the kind of decision making you make in games like RISK and roleplaying. Games like RISK, you're still 'yourself' - most people look at such games as 'what would I do' not 'what would Patton or Alexander do'. They are not immersed in the game-world in the sense that they are someone else. They are still themselves.

 

When I play a PC game, RPG or not, I never feel as tho I am someone else. I am merely playing myself, using an avatar to represent myself as I march around the gameworld doing stuff.

[LadyCrimson]

Many average gamers seemed to really like KOTOR.

 

Yes, and I'm one of them. (edit) I also liked BG1 & 2, Might&Magic 6 and 7, etc. That does not make me a roleplayer who notices story very much.

 

In fact, many have mentioned that it was their gateway into the world of RPGs. And KOTOR also featured choice.

 

See above post about roleplaying vs. just playing.

[metadigital]

Is that what you meant?

 

Since I have no real clue what you're trying to say in relation to what I was saying, I don't know.

 

There is, IMO, a difference between the kind of decision making you make in games like RISK and roleplaying. Games like RISK, you're still 'yourself' - most people look at such games as 'what would I do' not 'what would Patton or Alexander do'. They are not immersed in the game-world in the sense that they are someone else. They are still themselves.

 

When I play a PC game, RPG or not, I never feel as tho I am someone else. I am merely playing myself, using an avatar to represent myself as I march around the gameworld doing stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that's a totally seperate and indecipherable holy-war about acting: the Bruce Willis acting-as-Bruce-Willis-in-Every-Film-type acting, and the Johnny Depp chameleon-type acting.

 

It is still roleplay (unless you really are a meglomaniac and do control a lot of armies ...), so there is an aspect of gaming that can be leveraged by the player.

[Walsingham]

I take your point about different choices for different goals, there LadyCrimson. I too read books, but for whatever reason I read very very very fast. I can run through a book in a day or two, reading part time. I've no complaints about this, as it comes in very handy, but it does mean that for a slightly more relaxed escape I prefer RPGs.

 

I think my second point can be made best by reminding people exactly how awful, mindless, and filled with senseless troll-mauling the Official Campaign was in Neverwinter Nights. It has seriously and perhaps unfairly, put me off buying NWN 2, and any of the expansion sets.

[LadyCrimson]

Well, I'm sure when games are played with 3D goggles and voice commands or whatever (like a mental holodeck) that'll help the story bit - the 'average' gamer will likely be more concerned with story when fantasy gaming becomes that interactive/immersive.

[metadigital]

Where?!

[LadyCrimson]

Where?!

 

*points*

Over there!

 

...I hope I'm still around if/when they ever manage to make such a thing viable and a reality.

[Walsingham]

I think you may be overestimating the benefits of feeling 'real' violence, as opposed to badly displayed violence.

[The Coordinator]

I blame parents who throw money at their kids to entertain them rather than actually taking an active role in their life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Exactly.

 

Maybe some parents shouldn

[Musopticon?]

Birth control and darwinism, coupled with idiots not allowed to breed. Keep the genepool pure.

[metadigital]

I keep telling you people, we need obligatory congenital (reversible) mass sterilisation, which may only be reversed via a licencing tribunal. (The Ministry of Growth, sounds apt.)

[EnderAndrew]

Only if the Ministry of Growth is a subdivision of the Ministry of Truth.