NHL is back

[Fionavar]

Big Green here: Please discuss the topic - do not bait or flame one another ... if you can't play nice, I can arrange a timeout ... when in doubt, don't post the first thing that comes to mind and if all else fails ... take a walk

[alanschu]

No, I guess you haven't bene paying attention to baseball. There was a guy who just invoked a no trade clause and is has been slammed by fans and now is being punished by his teams by threats of limiting his playing time.

 

Slammed by the fans? When? The USA Today article didn't mention the fans being overtly upset. And as you indicated with mkreku's hyperbole, there's always two sides. There's going to be Ken Griffey Jr. fans that were upset that he vetoed the trade with St. Louis and whatnot, and there will likely be a case where people will be upset at him vetoing this trade, given San Diego's recent slump.

 

Also, he's not being threatened to be punished. According to Bruce Bochy, Nevin understands that he'll likely see reduced minutes, given that he's struggled since coming off the disabled list (3-17 and 0-5 with runners in scoring position), coupled with a pair of hot hands in Xavier Nady and Mark Sweeney. Both players are hitting the ball much more consistently than Nevin. Despite this information, Nevin still wants to stay in San Diego since he's been here for so long. A classic case of a player getting screwed! He's at a team he wants to be at, to which he proclaims to be "its biggest fan." Must suck to be him.

 

Oh please. You know full why players play in the NHL and not elsehwere. It's the friggin' NHL. You don't play in the NHL you are likely not gonna be considered much in hockey espicially in North Amerika. For prfoessional hockey players, the NHL is the Apex of long years of hard work at honing their skills so nice try. It's not *just* about the money just like it isn't in any job.

 

If it isn't "any job" then why do you compare it to "any job?" Sure there's the recognition, but if they just loved playing the game, they wouldn't have a problem signing the original deal by the league. In fact, they could have even been smart about it and made sure that ticket prices are also capped, so as to keep fans happy as well as make sure the owners aren't making fat coin. When a player leaves a city that loves him and wants him to stay because that team can't afford him, I question how much it is simply for "the love of the game." I have an immense amount of respect for players that honour their contract, like a Michael Jordan who could have EASILY held out for more money, and likely have gotten too, but didn't. The best player in the league wasn't even the highest paid player on his team, and he never made any fuss about it.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned if a team and player relationshiip isn't working out boths dies should come to a fair agreement of some sort of release - just like any job between employer and employee. The only reason trades are so prevelant and acceptable in sports is 'cause it's pretty much always existed, hightens the fan excitement, and teams don't want to release a player for 'nothing' in case it come sback to bite them except in the most hopeless cases.

 

it isn't in any job

 

You've already said that it isn't "any job." And besides, in any other job, if the employee isn't performing up to the expectations of the employer, he's just flat out fired. Perhaps offered a severance depending on the situation. The employer certainly doesn't find a different place to work for him, and certainly does not continue to pay him his salary after he's been let go if the player hasn't been hired somewhere else yet. I'd love to get fired from a job and still make the 6 or 7 figure income simply because I still have a contract.

 

Fortunately though, the new CBA does allow for this agreement. Teams can buyout the contract, freeing the player and the team of the relationship.

 

But, you sign a contract to play for the Calgary Flames not the Edmonton Oilers. rolleyes.gif

 

No you don't. You sign a contract, as Judas stated, for a duration and money. If it was specifically for a place to work, then trades would be null and void since the contract would clearly be only for one specific organization. If players signed to play in a specific city in their contract, they could not be traded.

 

"And it still doesn't change the fact that if the player feels the trade is unfair, he doesn't have to play in the NHL anymore."

 

Aye. And, i propose if JE Sawyer or Dave Gaider think a trad eis unfair they can just not work in the game industry anymore.

 

Apples and oranges. Players that choose to not play in the NHL can still play professional hockey. Which is why your analogy is silly enough as it is. Pro sports is NOT like any other business.

[Volourn]

"You've already said that it isn't "any job.""

 

Eh? Where do you get this?

 

 

"You sign a contract, as THE TROLL stated, for a duration and money. If it was specifically for a place to work"

 

I know this. The point of this disucssion is to state my DISAGREEMENT with the way pro sports use trades to transfer players like cattle. Nowhere did I say that trades were illegal or against NHL rules. Tsk, tsk.

 

 

"Nevin, 34, is batting .263 (72-for-279) with nine home runs, 11 doubles and 47 RBIs in 71 games"

 

Those are pretty decent numbers. Over 162 games that's 100+ RBI, around 25 homeruns and doubles. His batting average isn't the best; but certianly isn't the worse.

 

 

"(3-17 and 0-5 with runners in scoring position"

 

If you are as much a fan of baseball as you are of hockey; you'd know all players - even the best ones - go through slumps, and the only way to really get your way out fo one is to keep at it. Sitting on the bench helps no one. On top of that, those numbers you posted while crappy indeed are such a miniscule number over a long season to be almost irrelevant.

 

 

"with a pair of hot hands in Xavier Nady and Mark Sweeney. Both players are hitting the ball much more consistently than Nevin"

 

Nady is batting .272, 11HRs, 33RBIs in 74 games. He has an advantage in avergae but Nevin has him crushed RBI wise.

 

Mark Sweeney is batting .304 with 7 homers and 18RBI in 80 games. While Sweeney easily wins the average battles amonst the 3; Nevin wins yet again production wise.

 

So, 'hot hand' wuse did you mena like they batted .300 in the last 5 games? Big whoop.

 

On top of that, both the players you list are outfielders, Nevin is a first baseman. LMAO

 

I say it's no coincidence that this 'more limited playing time' comes just after he refused to be traded. It's nice you have blind faith in San Diego; but when it smells like poo it likely is poo.

 

 

"In fact, they could have even been smart about it and made sure that ticket prices are also capped, so as to keep fans happy as well as make sure the owners aren't making fat coin."

 

It's not up to the players to decide how much a ticket cost nor should it be. They're paid to play hockey not be businessmen. The union's job is to get the best deal they can for the PLAYERS not the FANS. It'll be like the Mining Union negotiating on behalf of the mine's customers. R00fles!

[GhostofAnakin]

Speaking of tickets, is anyone going to New York to take up their offer for free tickets to 2 games this season?

 

Something like the first 1000 people get a voucher for 2 free tickets to a Rangers game.

 

I wonder if the Leafs or Sens will have something similar.

[Judas]

Speaking of tickets, is anyone going to New York to take up their offer for free tickets to 2 games this season?

 

Something like the first 1000 people get a voucher for 2 free tickets to a Rangers game.

 

I wonder if the Leafs or Sens will have something similar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think a market like Toronto needs to offer any sort of incentive to watch NHL again. They'll get crowds no matter what.

 

I know here in Vancouver they aren't lowering ticket prices...but why should they, I suppose, since renewal rate was something like 90%.

[GhostofAnakin]

I think it was more done as a public relations thing to show the fans they're sorry or whatever.

 

I don't think the Rangers struggle to draw crowds either.

[mkreku]

Anyone hear any rumours about their teams yet?

 

So far I've heard that Toronto are considering ditching Belfour in favour of.. Manny Fernandez! Geez. Oh well. What I don't understand is why they aren't trying to get Tellquist into the game?

 

Toronto are also rumoured to look into Peter Forsberg! Now THAT could be a sensational deal, if only Peter didn't break something everytime his skates touch the ice. A more injury prone player isn't possible to find. Still, when healthy, Peter is probably the best player in the NHL.

 

Toronto are also rumoured to bid on Glen Murray (Boston), Eric Lindros (Rangers) and John Leclair (Philadelphia), Pavol Demitra (St. Louis) and a few more.

 

Domi is apparently not returning.

[alanschu]

"You've already said that it isn't "any job.""

 

Eh? Where do you get this?

 

 

You, said this:

 

Oh please. You know full why players play in the NHL and not elsehwere. It's the friggin' NHL. You don't play in the NHL you are likely not gonna be considered much in hockey espicially in North Amerika. For prfoessional hockey players, the NHL is the Apex of long years of hard work at honing their skills so nice try. It's not *just* about the money just like it isn't in any job.

 

Look at the bolded part. Your words.

 

 

"You sign a contract, as THE TROLL stated, for a duration and money. If it was specifically for a place to work"

 

I know this. The point of this disucssion is to state my DISAGREEMENT with the way pro sports use trades to transfer players like cattle. Nowhere did I say that trades were illegal or against NHL rules. Tsk, tsk.

 

No, but you persistently state incorrect stuff, and related it to real jobs. And I didn't say YOU said that trades were illegal. I said that if players signed specifically with a city, then a trade would require a contract revisal, which they don't. Clearly players do not sign with a city as you indicate.

 

 

"Nevin, 34, is batting .263 (72-for-279) with nine home runs, 11 doubles and 47 RBIs in 71 games"

 

Those are pretty decent numbers. Over 162 games that's 100+ RBI, around 25 homeruns and doubles. His batting average isn't the best; but certianly isn't the worse.

 

Odd, just extrapolating his home runs would not get you 25, more like 15. 20 with a stretch.

 

 

"(3-17 and 0-5 with runners in scoring position"

 

If you are as much a fan of baseball as you are of hockey; you'd know all players - even the best ones - go through slumps, and the only way to really get your way out fo one is to keep at it. Sitting on the bench helps no one. On top of that, those numbers you posted while crappy indeed are such a miniscule number over a long season to be almost irrelevant.

 

When the team is in a slump, coaches always mix stuff up. It's just like Hockey, Baseball, whatever.

 

 

"with a pair of hot hands in Xavier Nady and Mark Sweeney. Both players are hitting the ball much more consistently than Nevin"

 

Nady is batting .272, 11HRs, 33RBIs in 74 games. He has an advantage in avergae but Nevin has him crushed RBI wise.

 

Mark Sweeney is batting .304 with 7 homers and 18RBI in 80 games. While Sweeney easily wins the average battles amonst the 3; Nevin wins yet again production wise.

 

So, 'hot hand' wuse did you mena like they batted .300 in the last 5 games? Big whoop.

 

Nady is batting .303 in his last 13 games, and .353 in his last 7 games, and .364 in his last 3 games. He's hitting more consistently during the streak. He's also slugging for over .500 in his last 13 games.

 

Sweeney has been slugging aroung .600 in recent games, in addition to batting close to .400. In his last 8 games he is batting .400.

 

Since his return from the disabled list, Nevin hasn't found his groove. I agree to let players play through things, but benching players batting .400 would be dumb, particularly while in a slump.

 

On top of that, both the players you list are outfielders, Nevin is a first baseman. LMAO

 

Magic Johnson was a Point Guard that started at Center one game. Doesn't change the fact that those two players were spending time at first base.

 

 

I say it's no coincidence that this 'more limited playing time' comes just after he refused to be traded. It's nice you have blind faith in San Diego; but when it smells like poo it likely is poo.

 

Well, then you're just speculating, which is hardly evidence at all. His limited playing time is also a factor when perhaps he's still not fully 100% after coming of the DL. Furthermore, if it was crap, then why is he so happy about his decision to stay?

 

 

"In fact, they could have even been smart about it and made sure that ticket prices are also capped, so as to keep fans happy as well as make sure the owners aren't making fat coin."

 

It's not up to the players to decide how much a ticket cost nor should it be. They're paid to play hockey not be businessmen. The union's job is to get the best deal they can for the PLAYERS not the FANS. It'll be like the Mining Union negotiating on behalf of the mine's customers. R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because if it was just for the love of the game, a salary cap would not piss them off. They already make huge amounts of money and are financially set for life unless they just blow it all away. I added that tidbit in there so you couldn't come back and say "Players want more money because owners make fat coin."

 

And stop with the analogies to everyday businesses. Mining Unions don't have employees that make 7 figures on average. And in your own words, "it isn't in any job" so stop comparing them.

 

 

You make gross analogies like players being treated like cattle, when the working situation they endure is much better than 99.9% of the other jobs in the cities they play in. You don't hear players or anyone bemoaning that they play in the NHL and how life is so tough for a pro-hockey player. Oh woe is them.

[Kor Qel Droma]

Anyone hear any rumours about their teams yet?

 

 

Toronto are also rumoured to bid on Glen Murray (Boston), Eric Lindros (Rangers) and John Leclair (Philadelphia), Pavol Demitra (St. Louis) and a few more.

 

Domi is apparently not returning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I read the story about Leclair and Lindros. I haven't heard anything about Glen Murray since the last season, but out of your list I think Murray would be the best addition. He gets real cold sometimes, but when the guy is hot and has decent linemates , he can be a real treat to watch.

 

And I can't see Toronto coughing up for the elder version of the Legion of Doom. Two of the most injury prone players in the league. Hold on a second, Toronto should sign L & L. It would be a great move on their part...

 

Sadly my Oilers are in the position of trying to sign Mr. Whiplash himself, Jason Allison. And as much as Kevin Lowe would like Scott Neidermeyer, the player has expressed interest in many cities but Edmonton wasn't on the list.

[alanschu]

Which is too bad given that he was born here

 

Although a talented center I imagine #1 concern for the Oilers.

 

Would be cool of Scott Neidermeyer came to town though :D

[mkreku]

Two of the most injury prone players in the league.  Hold on a second, Toronto should sign L & L.  It would be a great move on their part...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, and then they'll probably get Forsberg too just to annoy me. They'd make a great line:

 

"Ouch, my head!"

"Ouch, my back!"

"Ouch, my spleen!"

[Kor Qel Droma]

Better that than paying money for a guy who hasn't played for 2 + years.

Actually I was hoping that Gonchar does go to the Leafs. Then they could dump Bryan McCabe and actually have a gifted power play defenceman. I exclude Brian Leetch because he's not under contract, right? Sundin, Gonchar, and Brad Richards have been the only people I've picked year in and year out in my HOckey Pools.

[GhostofAnakin]

Anyone hear any rumours about their teams yet?

 

So far I've heard that Toronto are considering ditching Belfour in favour of.. Manny Fernandez! Geez. Oh well. What I don't understand is why they aren't trying to get Tellquist into the game?

 

Toronto are also rumoured to look into Peter Forsberg! Now THAT could be a sensational deal, if only Peter didn't break something everytime his skates touch the ice. A more injury prone player isn't possible to find. Still, when healthy, Peter is probably the best player in the NHL.

 

Toronto are also rumoured to bid on Glen Murray (Boston), Eric Lindros (Rangers) and John Leclair (Philadelphia), Pavol Demitra (St. Louis) and a few more.

 

Domi is apparently not returning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Leafs seem to be rumored to be picking up every UFA out there that hasn't already played for them.

 

As for Belfour, I think that's a smart move (not necessarily Fernandez, though). Belfour's age and back problems aren't worth the $5 million or so (with rollback) he'd be making.

[alanschu]

Although Belfour's stellar play got Toronto past Ottawa last year. I still think Eddie's got skillz.

[Volourn]

"It's not *just* about the money just like it isn't in any job."

 

You better rea dthis line more closely. The statement clearly states that just like any other job it's not *just* about the money. It's also about the boss, the city, and the environment. This is true in sports, McDonalds, Microsoft, or any other job. The line doesn't even come close to implying that 'hockey isn't like any other other job' like you imply.

 

 

"Odd, just extrapolating his home runs would not get you 25, more like 15. 20 with a stretch."

 

How do you figure this? He has 11 homeruns in 71 games. He'd have 22 in 142 games with another 20 games left. That seems to me that's more than 15 homeruns, and 20 is no stretch over 162 games. This is simple math. Tsk, tsk.

 

 

"When the team is in a slump, coaches always mix stuff up. It's just like Hockey, Baseball, whatever."

 

 

"Well, then you're just speculating, which is hardly evidence at all. His limited playing time is also a factor when perhaps he's still not fully 100% after coming of the DL."

 

This both cna be true espicially the first. Of course, it's too much of a coincidence for this issue to be rbought up in the same article disucssing the fact he refused a trade. It's like 'he refused a trade and now his playing time is going to be more limited for x other reason'. It seems like an exuse to save face because the player had the GALL to say no.

 

 

"Furthermore, if it was crap, then why is he so happy about his decision to stay?"

 

The article explains clearly why he wants to say in SD - his family had made a home there. See, he's making a career sacrifice for his family. Afterall, consideirng that SD has tried to tade him 3 times since both sides agreed to the No Trade Clause it's obvious they don't want him and think he's a crap player.

 

 

"Because if it was just for the love of the game, a salary cap would not piss them off"

 

Entertainment industry, gaming industry don't technically have salary caps for the most part yet they do fine, and the people who work in those industries do it because they love it. George Lucas, afterall, makes tons of money yet I doubt even those who dislike him would honestly think he 'only' does it for the money witha straight face.

 

 

"And stop with the analogies to everyday businesses. Mining Unions don't have employees that make 7 figures on average. And in your own words, "it isn't in any job" so stop comparing them."

 

A. Don't tell me what to do.

 

B. I didn't say 'it isn't in any ob' in the way you twisted it to mean so keep being silly.

 

C. I don't care how much mine union employees make. Stop being so greedy and money oriented. It's not just about money. I can tell youa re the one who is greedy as all you think about is the price tag. Go figure.

 

 

"You make gross analogies like players being treated like cattle, when the working situation they endure is much better than 99.9% of the other jobs in the cities they play in. You don't hear players or anyone bemoaning that they play in the NHL and how life is so tough for a pro-hockey player. Oh woe is them."

 

You lie. Players have bemoan at times. Did you just hear JR awhile ago? Sure sounded like 'bemoaning' to me. And, they are treated like cattle. High priced cattle; but cattle nontheless. Afterall, they are amde to perfrom (by choice), and as soon as a team or the fans are done using them they are thrown in the trash heap. If they injured they are thrown in the trash heap. They do one thing that is dissaproved of they are harassed and called evil. If they'd are ask for more money, they are called selfish when the owners and espicially the fans are the most selfish group ever in this world.

 

Face it, fans are pathetic, and aren't human.

 

 

P.S. I'm glad people are happy that the crappiest players' salaries have risen. Good job, people.

[alanschu]

How do you figure this? He has 11 homeruns in 71 games. He'd have 22 in 142 games with another 20 games left. That seems to me that's more than 15 homeruns, and 20 is no stretch over 162 games. This is simple math. Tsk, tsk.

 

Except he only has 9 home runs. The number should be more towards 20, except for the fact that he was injured and has been struggling since.

 

 

This both cna be true espicially the first. Of course, it's too much of a coincidence for this issue to be rbought up in the same article disucssing the fact he refused a trade. It's like 'he refused a trade and now his playing time is going to be more limited for x other reason'. It seems like an exuse to save face because the player had the GALL to say no.

 

Towers said he hoped Nevin would agree to the deal in part because he could split time between first and designated hitter at Camden Yards, a much more hitter-friendly venue than PETCO Park.

 

The trade was offered because it would give Nevin more opportunity to play.

 

Even then, they still found a way to squeeze him into the lineup, playing him at catcher in their most recent game.

 

Afterall, consideirng that SD has tried to tade him 3 times since both sides agreed to the No Trade Clause it's obvious they don't want him and think he's a crap player.

 

Yes, because the Oilers traded Gretzky because they thought he was a crap player

 

He's an expensive player, that's struggling and certainly doesn't seem to be playing to the form that netted him his $10 million contract.

 

 

Entertainment industry, gaming industry don't technically have salary caps for the most part yet they do fine, and the people who work in those industries do it because they love it. George Lucas, afterall, makes tons of money yet I doubt even those who dislike him would honestly think he 'only' does it for the money witha straight face.

 

It's clearly for the love of the craft, when people state that their going salary is $20 million dollars. Gaming industry is a different story, because people making games don't make a lot of money. In their situation, it's clear that they don't do it for the money, as virtually every other programming job out there would actually get them more money.

 

A. Don't tell me what to do.

 

Then don't say stupid stuff.

 

C. I don't care how much mine union employees make. Stop being so greedy and money oriented. It's not just about money. I can tell youa re the one who is greedy as all you think about is the price tag. Go figure.

 

Ad hominem. It doesn't matter if you don't care how much mine union employees make. I'm not the greedy one, I'm not the one making the money. Nor do I care to. In fact, I want to be a game developer....clearly it's not about the money.

 

I don't just think about the price tag, I just don't live in some fantasy world where I say "people do it for the love of the game" yet cry when they willingly leave a team because that team couldn't offer them enough money than a different team.

 

You lie. Players have bemoan at times. Did you just hear JR awhile ago? Sure sounded like 'bemoaning' to me. And, they are treated like cattle. High priced cattle; but cattle nontheless. Afterall, they are amde to perfrom (by choice), and as soon as a team or the fans are done using them they are thrown in the trash heap. If they injured theya re thrown in the trash heap. They do one thing that is dissaproved of they are harassed and called evil. If theyd are ask for more money, they are called slefish when the owners and espicially the fans are the most selfsih group ever in this world.

 

Yes, because Jeremy Roenick is the defacto class act. He always says stuff to get the media and whatnot rieled up. It still doesn't change the fact that if it was so unfair, then they wouldn't need to play in the NHL. Something has to keep them there, and it's not just the love of the game. They can play hockey anywhere in they wanted in the world.

 

Face it, fans are pathetic, and aren't human.

 

Considering your attacks against anyone that uses hyperbole, I'm just going to leave this one. Besides, you shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

 

I'm glad people are happy that the crappiest players' salaries have risen. Good job, people

 

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly why they're happy

[alanschu]

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...xt=.jsp&c_id=sd

 

"Phil has elected to stay with the Padres and will be treated as a full member of the team," Towers said in a club statement. "However, with the team competing for the National League West title, playing time is going to be determined by both his performance and the performances of other players that will ultimately give us the best chance to win."

 

Right-handed Xavier Nady, at 26 a power threat the Padres have been trying to keep in the lineup all season long in a utility role, and left-handed veteran Mark Sweeney could see the bulk of the playing time at first base going forward.

 

Axelrod said his client was aware of that situation.

 

"That was duly taken under consideration. He understands that's a possibility, something that (Padres manager Bruce Bochy) may decide to do," Axelrod told the AP. "Obviously he's willing to accept that and take his chances with that."

 

 

And my bad about misreading your "any job" line. Never saw the 'in' there any time I looked at it.

 

 

EDIT:

 

"This really wasn't something I proposed," Towers said, adding that the Orioles expressed interest in Nevin when the two teams were discussing starting pitching.

 

I don't think you can say that it's just about the team thinking Nevin is a crap player (despite Nevin being team MVP three years in a row at one point), especially when it was the Orioles stating Nevin would be a good exchange for Ponson, the pitcher San Diego was interested in.

[mkreku]

Just stop arguing with Trollourn. It isn't worth it as the guy can be proven wrong a billion times but never gets the brains to figure it out.

 

I saw an interesting rumour today. Apparently Detroit are after Big Joe Thornton and they are seriously considering trading Datsyuk to get him! Ok, I know Thornton is big and skilled, but does that sound like a smart move to you? If Datsyuk keeps improving like he has the last few years he should become an extremely exciting player to watch. He's already impressed the hell out of me with his awkward style and unpredictable moves. Joe Thornton always makes me think "Geez, he's so big, strong and skilled, shouldn't he be able to do.. more?". Also, Thornton doesn't seem like the type who thrives under pressure. Quite the opposite in fact. Still, it's only a rumour, but.. Interesting nonetheless.

[alanschu]

I felt that given Joe Thornton's injury, it was still awfully gutsy of him to still play in the playoffs.

 

He's still relatively young, and I think he's going to be a scary performer throughout his career.

[Volourn]

"Except he only has 9 home runs. The number should be more towards 20, except for the fact that he was injured and has been struggling since."

 

Hmm.. My bad. Still, 20+ homers is pretty good. The fact the team wants to trade him due to the injury shows a lack of loyalty on their aprt. Not surprising.

 

 

"despite Nevin being team MVP three years in a row at one point"

 

3 years ago means nothing to a disloyal team.

 

 

"And my bad about misreading your "any job" line."

 

That's ok. My mistake with the homers cancels it out.

 

 

"Yes, because the Oilers traded Gretzky because they thought he was a crap player"

 

Completely different situation. And, yet, I'm oftne accused of seeing things in black and white. It's obvious Nevin was trying to unload Nevin cause he's an underperforming high priced player. I seriously doubt if the trade didn't go through, Gretzky's playtime on the Oilers would be cut as punishment.

 

P.S. Pople ar ehappy that crappy players will make more money than they did before.

[alanschu]

The fact the team wants to trade him due to the injury shows a lack of loyalty on their aprt. Not surprising.

 

They don't want to trade him due to injury.

 

In fact, the deal was proposed by Baltimore, the Padres were just interested in acquiring a new pitcher.

 

 

Completely different situation. And, yet, I'm oftne accused of seeing things in black and white. It's obvious Nevin was trying to unload Nevin cause he's an underperforming high priced player. I seriously doubt if the trade didn't go through, Gretzky's playtime on the Oilers would be cut as punishment.

 

My comment wasn't directed at the fact of alleged "punishment" (even though they still found a way to work him into the roster in their last game), but at the fact that apparently the team thinks he's a crap player because they want to trade him.

[Volourn]

"but at the fact that apparently the team thinks he's a crap player because they want to trade him."

 

The bottom line is the SD Padres don't want him on their team. Afterall, they've tried to trade him 3 different times in the last few years. Yeah, they view him highly. Haha.

[alanschu]

They also had no problems offering him a no trade clause.

 

Basically they propose the trades knowing full well that it's up to him if he wants to take it. If not, oh well.

 

Whether or not they view a player highly is the sole determinant as to whether or not they trade a player. To take an extreme example, no matter how much fans and the team may have loved Doug Weight in Edmonton, if say Detroit had offered Sergei Fedorov for him, the trade would have likely been done, because at the same time the team needs to do what's best for the team. Just like how the players feel they need to do what's best for themselves.

[Volourn]

"They also had no problems offering him a no trade clause."

 

Yeah, years ago. It's obvious they didn't plan ahead. Plus, who says they offred it? More likely, he asked/demanded it.

 

 

"the trade would have likely been done, because at the same time the team needs to do what's best for the team."

 

No team loyalty shown which is why teams don't deserve a player's loyalty 'cause as soon as the team can get someone better they dump the other one in the proverbial trash. I understand the philosphy as the team must look out for their best interest which is why I think it's stupid to give players flak when they do the exact same thing through trade demands, contratc negotitiations or in extreme situations 'holding out'.

[alanschu]

Yeah, years ago. It's obvious they didn't plan ahead. Plus, who says they offred it? More likely, he asked/demanded it.

 

They still agreed to it.

 

No team loyalty shown which is why teams don't deserve a player's loyalty 'cause as soon as the team can get someone better they dump the other one in the proverbial trash.

 

Not always the case.

 

 

I understand the philosphy as the team must look out for their best interest which is why I think it's stupid to give players flak when they do the exact same thing through trade demands, contratc negotitiations or in extreme situations 'holding out'.

 

No beef with asking to be traded, and definitely no beef with renegotiating a contract.

 

Hold outs are crap because they work both ways. If a player is playing like crap, a team can't even trade him. How many times in pro sports to players have stellar seasons when their contract is up at the end of the season?

 

Players shouldn't do stupid stuff like sign long term deals if they don't think that that dollar value is going to remain appropriate. Honour the contract, since whatever team you play for is going to have to. Same goes for bands like Linkin Park or anyone else that doesn't honor the contract.

 

 

Let's not forget that even as recent as the 80s, teams were a lot more stagnant. You could argue just as easily in the other direction, that the reason the teams are no longer loyal is because of the free agency explosion.

 

Many people herald the trading of Wayne Gretzky to be the undoing of free agency in the NHL. The owner of the LA Kings had no problems forking over a huge amount of coin to secure the rights to Gretzky, and pay him huge amounts of money. But then suddenly other players go "Oh, well Gretzky is making this much money, so I'm at least entitled to X amount of money."

 

 

You liken Pro Sports to any other job so quickly. If a contractor decides to just not work despite having a contract, he gets sued. All sorts of legal ramifications come in. In the layman's job market, contractors don't just "hold out." So, if the NHL is just like any other business, why are their employees allowed to hold out?