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KOTOR III after KOTOR II!


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They just came up with this very non-Star Wars Revan-didn't-really-fall-to-the-dark-side-he-just-went-Sith-to-improve-the-Republic bollocks, and it didn't really make much difference whether you said that he was LS or DS in the beginning of the game. Then the whole game was about another character (namely the Exile) who, in the LS ending, essentially just went after Revan wherever he was.

 

The whole issue with KoTOR2 kind of screwing the series up was obviously Obsidian trying to do something different and time consuming despite being given a very short amount of time to do it in. The idea was promising, but the result a confusing mess. Don't get me wrong here, I like this game and have played it through three times, but there are some unforgivable mistakes they made, that sort of has the whole 'saga' left dangling. It's not just the ending (which was very abrupt and crippled), but the whole idea of making the game keep focus on Revan when in fact Revan is nowhere to be seen in the game. They essentially decided to continue Revan's story without actually telling us anything. The only thing they told us was about his past, where they basically just changed the whole KotOR1 storyline. My DS Revan fell to the dark side on Korriban, corrupted by the dark side. He wasn't some sort of

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I disagree.  That's just what Kreia said.  No one else in the entire game said that...

 

How do I know that that's just what Kreia said?  This is what I think: She knew Revan, at one time, before the player played any part in his/her destiny, but it was perfectly clear she didn't know the REAL Revan, the Revan as our PC of the first game.  Doesn't it seem odd to you that the developer's would suggest that it only LOOKS like Revan turned away from the darkside, and saved the Jedi, from a certain point of view? 

 

But she only knew the old Revan.  I don't believe she even knew that his identity was essentially wiped clean.  Who is she to talk about his/her motives?

 

But yeah.  Her opinion is all we got on the matter, which is a weakness in itself.

 

I agree that they were probably too ambitious; but I say part of that was LA's totally arbitrary restrictions on plot.  Obsidian, for the time they got, should've focused a little bit on improving framerates, maybe, maybe alter animations, and then just focus on content, content, and more content.  It would be technically possible, I'm sure, to make a game that depends on Revan's LS or DS choices, but that would've also been a gamble.  Especially considering LA's requirements, and the things Obsidian pushed for.

 

Anyway, though...hindsight is just as good in one person as another.

 

Well, Kreia herself is a character who seems to be able to "choose" which side of the force she's currently on, which kind of proves the point I was trying to make in the first place. I think you are right in what you're saying, but it just feels like Obsidian messed around a bit too much with the Star Wars concept. Not that their idea is inherently wrong, it just doesn't fit very well with KotOR1, despite being a direct sequel to it.

^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum

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I believe it would be a matter of adding other prominent points of view, not necessarily taking away that one. Pretty much everything was cast in a similar light to Kreia's philosophy, and that was a complete weakness. Everyone's view of the Force was... off. I was REALLY sick of hearing about "echoes in the Force" by the end of the game. So much potential characterization was destroyed by this mis-placed focus.

 

People who weren't interested in Force philosophy could've just ignored that whole idea, because they would've been like, "Oh, they think that, ok," and moved on without having to face it to understand or care about the game.

 

What I mean is, they wouldn't be "messing with the star wars concept" if they had only put something in to contrast the ideas about the Force they had.

 

Kreia didn't really decide her side at will, though. Her will was consistent throughout; perhaps she was fundamentally evil.

 

Maybe it's just that you want absolute black and white in Star Wars? Meh. In that case, they are "messing with the Star Wars concept". I just don't think black and white is the Star Wars concept.

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It paved the way for some poor story telling too. I mean, I don't really wish to go into another the-ending-sucked rant, but they had built it up to seem like a much longer game than KotOR. When I was finished with the planet-hopping and went to see the Jedi Masters I thought "Wow, I've still got a long way to go, let's see how they propose we stop the Sith!". Then I got into the Enclave and they said "We gotta strip you of the Force, sonny", after which Kreia appeared and killed three Jedi Masters outright with a little wave of her hand. Need I say that I felt cheated?

 

The Nihilus thing is also depressing. Here they have a really cool guy from all over the cover and concept art. Now unless you get really chatty with Kreia you will know virtually nothing of this guy. Just a cutscene and some conversation upon acquiring Visas. Obsidian said they wanted him to come across as a mystery guy, but there wasn't anything mysterious or eerie about him. He was just underdeveloped. All the concept art fooled you into thinking the game would be about something completely different than it was, which could have been a good thing if the game hadn't been so confusing and unclear. Now you just sat there in front of the screen going "oh well...".

^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum

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I disagree.  That's just what Kreia said.  No one else in the entire game said that...

 

That's my belief for a lot of what Kreia tells you. It's HER concept of the reality around you, not necessarily what is the ACTUAL reality.

 

Anyone who takes what Kreia told you (or any of the other in-game characters for that matter) and says "see, that's how it is" isn't differentiating a character's point of view from the actual game point of view.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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I presume you have seen the advertising on ceral boxes and the like for EPIII? Most of it has Darth on the box, and yet Darth is in EP III for all of 30 seconds if that.

 

As for black and white, well in a movie things need to be more straightforward because you have to get the story across in 2 1/2's games on the hand last 30-40 hours so a movie plot is painfuly transparent in that time frame.

 

One of the great mysteries of the universe will always be what would KOTORII have been had it not run into such serious time problems.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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I presume you have seen the advertising on ceral boxes and the like for EPIII? Most of it has Darth on the box, and yet Darth is in EP III for all of 30 seconds if that.

 

As for black and white, well in a movie things need to be more straightforward because you have to get the story across in 2 1/2's games on the hand last 30-40 hours so a movie plot is painfuly transparent in that time frame.

 

One of the great mysteries of the universe will always be what would KOTORII have been had it not run into such serious time problems.

 

Not to mention Darth Maul and General Grievous. Both turned out to be disappointments (Maul because of how short his part, Grievous because he looked stupid and acted like a coward).

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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"oh well...".

 

I thought there was going to be a lot more, as well. Why did they think to strip you of the Force? That didn't make any clear sense. Nihilus actually looked pretty crappy, in-game, and considering that I beat him in about ten Seconds flat, first time, highest difficulty, he wasn't very intimidating.

 

I was hoping for Atris to play a larger role. I was hoping for your past to be better explained.

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Not to mention Darth Maul and General Grievous.  Both turned out to be disappointments (Maul because of how short his part, Grievous because he looked stupid and acted like a coward).

 

After his performance in Clone Wars Greivous was a joke. I put it down to Mace force crushing his chest , but he was much better in Clone Wars :-

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Hello,

 

I am new to the forum and have been reading the older posts concerning Revan's gender and look for KOTOR III. I had a thought that I feel they should have done fot KOTOR II as well. Simply at the start of the game you are required to, depending on how they setup KOTOR III, meaning will we play as a new character or Revan/Exile or something. If its a new character you slect the specs you want then it asks you to slect Revan, giving you the choices we had in KOTOR I thus you can create your old Revan, then it would ask light or Dark side. I mean the games ability to have two story lines is nothing new. they straddled the fence in KOTOR II concerning Revan's outcome in the first one surely they could have a storyline for both the good and bad Revan. Thus replay is only increased. Then you do the same for the Exile and wola you can run into your old characters or use them again in KOTOR III.

 

 

Also, I think you could go back and play as Revan again. I know you would want to start out weak thus growing stronger but perhaps and this is only a suggestion, they could make this storyline more a series of flashbacks or you start out in the Madolorian Wars to better understand how Revan turned to the dark side in the first place. I mean the story of his/her fall is better than Anakin's in my book.

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Hi. Have a nice stay. >_<

HERMOCRATES:

Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks

of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned.

 

SOCRATES:

This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.

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Hello,

 

I am new to the forum and have been reading the older posts concerning Revan's gender and look for KOTOR III.  I had a thought that I feel they should have done fot KOTOR II as well.  Simply at the start of the game you are required to, depending on how they setup KOTOR III, meaning will we play as a new character or Revan/Exile or something.  If its a new character you slect the specs you want then it asks you to slect Revan, giving you the choices we had in KOTOR I thus you can create your old Revan, then it would ask light or Dark side.  I mean the games ability to have two story lines is nothing new.  they straddled the fence in KOTOR II concerning Revan's outcome in the first one surely they could have a storyline for both the good and bad Revan.  Thus replay is only increased.  Then you do the same for the Exile and wola you can run into your old characters or use them again in KOTOR III.

 

Exactly. I'm not sure why they wouldn't do that. It wouldn't be too hard for someone who doesn't care about Revan to skip that, although it does sort of reduce the importance of your new character to have the creation of Revan as part of the character creation process. Of course, it's not like that wasn't a problem anyway, in more than just something as superficial as that.

 

What bugged me is that almost every other important side plot male NPC I came across used almost exactly the same face I had used for my first Revan.

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Hello,

 

I am new to the forum and have been reading the older posts concerning Revan's gender and look for KOTOR III.  I had a thought that I feel they should have done fot KOTOR II as well.  Simply at the start of the game you are required to, depending on how they setup KOTOR III, meaning will we play as a new character or Revan/Exile or something.  If its a new character you slect the specs you want then it asks you to slect Revan, giving you the choices we had in KOTOR I thus you can create your old Revan, then it would ask light or Dark side.  I mean the games ability to have two story lines is nothing new.  they straddled the fence in KOTOR II concerning Revan's outcome in the first one surely they could have a storyline for both the good and bad Revan.  Thus replay is only increased.  Then you do the same for the Exile and wola you can run into your old characters or use them again in KOTOR III.

 

 

Thing is it's not two stories, it's actually four. Gender would also play a big role on how the character was written.

 

Putting aside for the moment the difficulty in writing a cohesive plot when you have so many lose ends. For each option , you reduce the overall length of the game because of the time/money required. When you add another character into the mix, well then it just gets silly.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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Thing is it's not two stories, it's actually four. Gender would also play a big role on how the character was written.

 

Putting aside for the moment the difficulty in writing a cohesive plot when you have so many lose ends. For each option , you reduce the overall length of the game because of the time/money required. When you add another character into the mix, well then it just gets silly.

 

the best way to handle Revan is to kill him....that way, you can still use him as a mask-wearing Force Ghost who speaks more like a ghost than a man or a woman.

 

also, by killing him off, you end the Revan saga which should end in K3.

 

Exile, though, should emerge as a prominent scripted character with a set identity...you can use Exile even beyond the Revan saga.

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Thing is it's not two stories, it's actually four. Gender would also play a big role on how the character was written.

 

Putting aside for the moment the difficulty in writing a cohesive plot when you have so many lose ends. For each option , you reduce the overall length of the game because of the time/money required. When you add another character into the mix, well then it just gets silly.

 

the best way to handle Revan is to kill him....that way, you can still use him as a mask-wearing Force Ghost who speaks more like a ghost than a man or a woman.

 

also, by killing him off, you end the Revan saga which should end in K3.

 

Exile, though, should emerge as a prominent scripted character with a set identity...you can use Exile even beyond the Revan saga.

 

If that happens, then everything after the end of KotOR1 really will have been a pile of horse dung. Can't KotOR2 just have been a bad dream, like season seven of Dallas?

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What if you killed off Revan, but made up a story about his fate before he died?  Wouldn't that help?

 

Not really,because I fully expect you would need four stories to keep people from whinging about "well Revan was XXXX" . This is a first hand look at why you dont make an NPC playable and why you dont continue the story. Really puts into perspective why there was no PST II.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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I totally disagree.

 

First, it could work having a Revan/Exile LS DS character story if for the most part they are the same in key feature. Consider KOTOR II. Revan is redemeded goes off and fights the source of the Sith. Revan becomes the Sith Lord, fortifies the Republic and heds off to fight the source of the Sith. its more back story.

 

But I admit it may be too hard to do that. Besides its a game not a movie. So yeah you can play dark like some alternate Universe but we all know that Revan, in a good story comes back to the light. Its a great story of Redemption.

 

I hear all this talk about killing off Revan. People noooooo, Revan is the story. Perhaps we need no more new characters. We have a whole bunch or exellent people for KOTOR III. I feel that KOTOR II leave me with the Impression that the Role of the Exile is to Find Revan. Exile has been there wounded by the war. The same war that turned a head strong Jedi with good intentions to the dark side. It has a sad Anakin feel to it. That Revan would fall trying to save the Republic he loved.

 

I would start KOTOR III with Revan in a dark place along and beaten up. Remember he/she would have been only a padawon. Jedi level 10 or something. This should be the game where the great Jedi emerge. KOTOR II gave us masters. Lets step it up with some real power. I dont want a scout or newbee. This will be the final story in the saga. I feel that Revan, and Bastilla, Exile will lead a new era of peace. The fight for this will bring out some of the most powerful and ancient Sith.

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In hindsight, I think the main problem with Revan and what to do with him is the fact that if they (the collective "they" of all the people involved in the KOTOR series) wanted to base the story around him or make him an integral part, they should have planned better and made levelling him at a slower pace possible so he could be the PC for all 3 games. That, to me, was the only plausible way that Revan could be a big part of all three games without having to mash together an incoherent story just to insert Revan's name in it.

 

Since that wasn't the case, Revan needs to become a "secondary" character, rather than a prominant NPC. The moment they levelled him up too fast in KOTOR I was the moment he went from being "Luke Skywalker" to "Yoda", and from here on out it's probably best if he's only used as a Yoda type character (not really central to the story, just there for the odd cameo of advice and/or confrontation).

 

Truth be told, I have no idea what the best storyline would be to wrap up the "Revan" saga. I'm not sold on the idea that it would be best to just kill him off, and I'm also not sold on the idea of having Revan be such a focal point as a NPC or whatever, either. Thank God I'm not the one writing the story for KOTOR III (if there is one). >_<

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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Wow, I read every page. Don't know what to say.

 

Umm... first I don't think it's hard to not play as Revan but still choose his or her face. All that is needed is to be able to choose from the faces of K1 and off you go.

 

I don't like the idea of Revan vs. the Exile at the end but it would make for an epic battle.

 

A couple pages back someone said that after the layoffs from LA that K3 was cancelled but a Mod for these boards said that the game was only delayed and not cancelled.

 

I also don't know how the story of K3 will turn out but I have faith in anyone that does it as long as they give to us that which was not in the previous two game... ie: better lightsaber combat and hoods.

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I also don't know how the story of K3 will turn out but I have faith in anyone that does it as long as they give to us that which was not in the previous two game... ie: better lightsaber combat and hoods.

 

I know this is taking your quote a bit out of context, but....

 

If those are the two most important things you want improved upon in KOTOR3, then I don't think I'd like the game if they catered to you. No offense or anything, but improved lightsaber combat and hoods would rank way down on my list of what would make K3 a great game.

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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