KoToR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Eddo36]

Thanks for the feedback, Plano. My response was to your last line of that first response you wrote to me. Anyhow I'm in total agreement. I just wish that K3 would unravel all the mysteries, and it should since it is the third game of a mysterious plot-intense series. I'd be dissapointed if there are a lot of mysteries still out there by the time you beat K3.

[Cassidy]

nooo! Don't kill anything and anyone! This is not a shooter!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No it's not, it's a RPG. And when I play darkside I want the ability to kill anyone who gives me a problem or a smartas.s answer. I want to be able to wipe out everyone in an entire area and create ghost towns if I so choose. It's an RPG, but without that freedom, it's not a true RPG.

[Cassidy]

I agree that there should be a lot of places that are not related to the plot, areas just for side-quests and looking for special items.

[Cheesemonger]

I agree that there should be a lot of places that are not related to the plot, areas just for side-quests and looking for special items.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tanks.

I guess they had that kind of stuff in some ways- Like in KOTOR 1, the thing with the bounty hunter's guild...and recruiting...that rocked, but the loot wasn't that great for them being the best in the galaxy or whatever...and our point being-

 

there were not enough of those types of side quests (way out there to the side--------away from the plot-----quests.

 

i could totally lose a few hours searching for an item if i really wanted it. I like working hard for that stuff, but it seemed to be found just about wherever in KOTOR2. Also, it always seemed like they were part of what i was supposed to do anyway-it's hard to explain. It was just too linear, maybe? Just ranting. Sorry

[Cassidy]

No, I understand what you mean. A lot of the quests were required, in some way or another. LS and DS had different quests, but most were required to advance the plot, regardless of which side you take.

[PhantomJedi]

I would have to say I agree that any ideas we put out for story ideas are not going to be used. The feedback we give they probably will use to change the game play. I also like the idea of advancing you proficiency in a lightsaber form. Maybe they could do it like in Jade Empire where every lvl you get X points to spend in different characteristics for the form. Or prehaps just a single route to improve the form like they did for Magic in Fable.

 

 

One last thing to those of you whining to see the story arch and characters from the first two games come back: I think you are suffering, what psychologist might call, seperation anxiety. So my suggestion to you is to find a good shrink and get over it. "

[Cassidy]

One last thing to those of you whining to see the story arch and characters from the first two games come back: I think you are suffering, what psychologist might call, seperation anxiety. So my suggestion to you is to find a good shrink and get over it. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well I prefer to call it closure anxiety. I did make a thread about Revan and Exile being in K3, but if they're not, I don't really care. All I want is closure. I just want the story of Revan and the Exile to at least have an end that makes sense, even if they're dead.

[Cassidy]

Here's something thatr I posted in a discussion in the K2 general discussion forum. I thought it should also go here. It's a discussion about the class and rankings system that should be used in K3. The question was which class/ranking system would you prefer.

 

I like the Padawan/Knight/Master idea. You could still have a choice of consular, guardian, or sentinal at the begining, but I think that the level requirements for rank advancement should be a little different. Let's say that the level cap is 50 like in K2, and let's also assume that you can actually reach level 50 with relative ease before the end of the game (long game huh?). I think Padawan with a Jedi master until level 15, then Knight with a Jedi partner until level 30, then at level 30 you become a master and can either take on a Padawan from an acadamy and train them, or keep your current Jedi partner. And of course, you would still have your usual party setup, except none would be Jedi, all would be soldiers, scouts, or scoundrels. The player could start in a Jedi acadamy as a new Padawan who has just finished basic Jedi training, or perhaps start as new Padawan who still has to learn to use the force.....

 

I also am toying with the idea of the Jedi master/partner/Padawan not being controlable by the player, just follow the player around and offer advice, words of wisdom, and help in fights, like Jolee did in K1. Either that, or the Jedi Master/partner/Padawan being the only Jedi Party member that the player gets, and that party member has to be with the player at all times untill the story progresses to a point where the player and their Jedi ally part ways.

[Plano Skywalker]

You know how in the star wars movies the Jedi and Sith often use the force to throw things at each other, most recently entire balcony seats at the senate building. Would it not be cool to be able to do this in the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

one of the main Force powers you see being used in the movies is, in fact, using the Force to throw debris at your opponent. We haven't seen that yet in the KOTOR games (not sure if we've even seen it in cutscreens).

 

I would like to see that. Perhaps the main reason we haven't seen it is, when you think about it, this would be a little tricky to implement since you would have to select which object to throw and at whom and how forceful, etc. But it would be cool if they found a way to do it.

[Plano Skywalker]

I also like the idea of advancing in a specific lightsaber form. Jade Empire does something quite similar.

 

It could be something as simple as having its own feat tree or something much more granular (as in the Jade Empire approach). I would opt for a more granular approach.

[Plano Skywalker]

Respawning enemies, like areas infested with Kinrath for instance, the kinrath could keep coming back. It could be a level up place that would be usefull if my "kill anyone" idea were to be added, because as we all know, a large chunk of the xp you get in the games is from quests. If you kill everyone, where do your quests and xp come from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

the problem that you are addressing is not solved by MMORPG-style "grinding" IMO. the answer lies, quite simply, in ALOT more sidequests, including faction-specific sidequests and sidequests that take you to worlds that the main story does not require you to visit.

[Plano Skywalker]

Also, the ability to kill anyone and everyone like in Fallout. That would be sweet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have not yet played Fallout but Morrowind has the same thing...you can attack just about anyone at anytime (including people who are tying to help you).

 

While I like the idea of some more open-endedness, I think that such a move would cheapen these games. These games are heavily story-focused and, of course, we are talking about Star Wars here.

[metadigital]

Also, the ability to kill anyone and everyone like in Fallout. That would be sweet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have not yet played Fallout but Morrowind has the same thing...you can attack just about anyone at anytime (including people who are tying to help you).

 

While I like the idea of some more open-endedness, I think that such a move would cheapen these games. These games are heavily story-focused and, of course, we are talking about Star Wars here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just have a "reputation" stat. If you kill innocents then your rep reflects that. Also, if you are seen as the soft-touch of the universe, then you should be flocked by every hard-luck-Harry and Susy-sob-story in the game.

 

The easiest way to prevent killing story-significant NPCs is to annouce that the PC has just prevented themselves from finishing the main plot (

[metadigital]

You know how in the star wars movies the Jedi and Sith often use the force to throw things at each other, most recently entire balcony seats at the senate building. Would it not be cool to be able to do this in the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

one of the main Force powers you see being used in the movies is, in fact, using the Force to throw debris at your opponent. We haven't seen that yet in the KOTOR games (not sure if we've even seen it in cutscreens).

 

I would like to see that. Perhaps the main reason we haven't seen it is, when you think about it, this would be a little tricky to implement since you would have to select which object to throw and at whom and how forceful, etc. But it would be cool if they found a way to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How is it any better / different to Force Lightning / Force Push ?

 

Or: what's the point? I don't see any need to implement it. I would much rather the extra effort went into plot and character develpoment!

[evaD04]

I think that continuing on with the greatness of one and two is essential. That being said, there are some kinks that need reworking. The game itself just feels unstable at times. One shouldn't be afraid to play a game in fear that it will crash randomly.

 

But I also feel that if the game was more open-ended that it would benefit remarkably. Think 75% KoTOR... 25% Morrowind! Being that these "planets" the characters visit ARE indeed entire planets, the environments should be larger. There should be more choices, events, subquests, villains, planets, characters, etc. The game should be bigger. Now... I know that doesn't sound very marketable (look at Bioware's recent Jade Empire... which has replay value but is very short.) Or look at "Fable"... by all means an ambitious game but way too short. So... it will be a struggle to convince the big wigs @ LucasArts to make a game that takes 75 hours. If it is good enough and will provide for a different experience the second time through... then people will buy it.

 

And another thing... the core constituents of the KoTOR are the people on these forums. They play the games, they care about the quality, they invest time in the story.... they are your target audience. Whether or not the game will sell 5 million copies should be irrelevant. Spend the time to make a quality game (with a great story like 1, and with philisophical ideas like 2). Make it long. Make it memorable. If you build it... they will buy it.

[Plano Skywalker]

How is it any better / different to Force Lightning / Force Push ?

 

Or: what's the point? I don't see any need to implement it. I would much rather the extra effort went into plot and character develpoment!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

first of all, I am of the opinion that the Force Lightning attacks may be a bit too overpowered in the KOTOR games....I have heard that in the PNP version of the SW RPG, Force manipulation consumes vitality. Also, remember in

Episode III, Palpatine does a lightning attack for a long period of time

it obviously consumes his vitality.

 

There is also the bit about some powers being restricted by armor. If you notice, Darth Vader (in the OT) does not use any power, that I can tell, that KOTOR has designated as Restricted By Armor.

 

Darth Vader throws debris around and his definitely "wearing armor". This would be an ideal power that is not Restricted By Armor.

 

Anyway, it does seem like it would take alot to implement so I'm not holding my breath. Indeed, there are many other things they should do first.

[Plano Skywalker]

Just have a "reputation" stat. If you kill innocents then your rep reflects that. Also, if you are seen as the soft-touch of the universe, then you should be flocked by every hard-luck-Harry and Susy-sob-story in the game.

 

The easiest way to prevent killing story-significant NPCs is to annouce that the PC has just prevented themselves from finishing the main plot (

[Plano Skywalker]

Now... I know that doesn't sound very marketable (look at Bioware's recent Jade Empire... which has replay value but is very short.) Or look at "Fable"... by all means an ambitious game but way too short. So... it will be a struggle to convince the big wigs @ LucasArts to make a game that takes 75 hours. If it is good enough and will provide for a different experience the second time through... then people will buy it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

absolutely right...it is encouraging to see that some of the later games stress replayability. however, this is not worth cutting the content to 10 or 20 hours.

 

IMO, the KOTOR games need to be such that the main plot alone takes 40 hours to complete the 5th time you play. Add in all the sidequests, and you are talking about 70 or 80 hours.

 

One can dream anyway.

[Plano Skywalker]

And random encounters when traveling between worlds, maybe attacks by pirates, meeting trade ships, etc. etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. You are on the Ebon Hawk, a known smuggler's vessel. Why wouldn't you also be a target for pirates?

 

Why shouldn't you be able to decide when and where to make Spice runs? Establish contact with other vessels?

 

All of this amounts to the kind of "open-endedness" that has little or no bearing on the main story....the KOTOR games need a bit of that, IMO.

[Joukahainen]

I'd also like to see the lighside/darkside choices be more subtle. There could be some obvious darkside choices, but not all of them should be. The game should also NOT notify you when you've gained alignment changes (other than the scale shown on the character sheet). All this does is notify the player to reload if they don't like the adjustment.

 

I also think that changes towards the darkside should be much swifter than changes towards the lightside. We should have to make atleast 3 lightside choices in order to make up for each darkside choice. Maybe more...

[PhantomJedi]

Also, the ability to kill anyone and everyone like in Fallout. That would be sweet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have not yet played Fallout but Morrowind has the same thing...you can attack just about anyone at anytime (including people who are tying to help you).

 

While I like the idea of some more open-endedness, I think that such a move would cheapen these games. These games are heavily story-focused and, of course, we are talking about Star Wars here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just have a "reputation" stat. If you kill innocents then your rep reflects that. Also, if you are seen as the soft-touch of the universe, then you should be flocked by every hard-luck-Harry and Susy-sob-story in the game.

 

The easiest way to prevent killing story-significant NPCs is to annouce that the PC has just prevented themselves from finishing the main plot (

[Plano Skywalker]

>I think it should be made a neutral power so it could be one more offensive power

>avilable to LS players. In the next game I hope they tweak the change in amount of

>force points spent on a power based on alignment so that you have to stick more to

>what your alignment is.

 

Agree. I personally think that ANYTIME someone uses the Force to cause DIRECT DAMAGE

to someone else, that this should cost Vitality points in addition to Force points.

However, the more LS you are in alignment, the more vitality it costs you.

 

Also, DSers could have a special feat tree to cut down on the amount of Vitality that such

powers cost. But it only helps DSers.

 

 

>LS players could use another offensive power because force push (which as of the current games)

>is their only offensive power and it is not really an offenive power.

>Basically it just does some damage and incapacitates they enemy so that you have

>time to bring your saber to bear. All the other offensive powers belong to DS.

 

Force Push, Stasis and Throw Lightsaber are about it for LS and/or Universal offensive

powers. Adding something like "Force Throw" as a Universal Power would be a welcome

addition. While the movies may show DSers using this more than LS, I see nothing

inherently DS about it.

 

 

>A possible way to implement it is to just select to use it on a the targeted enemy

>and the computer decides which object to pick up and throw based on peramiters set by the devs.

>Maybe as you progress in proficiency with the power you gain the ability to throw multiple

>objects at one enemy, multiple objects at mutliple enemies, or one very massive object

>(maybe you break a pillar and throw it) at a entire group to damage or kill them all.

 

Force Throw>>Advanced Force Throw>>Projectile Storm

 

Force Throw = the AI decides which object to pick up and which opponent to target.

 

Advanced = the AI decides which object to pick up and you decide which opponent to target.

 

Projectile Storm = you decide which structure you want ripped apart and the AI targets all of

your opponents with the debris.

[PhantomJedi]

>I think it should be made a neutral power so it could be one more offensive power

>avilable to LS players. In the next game I hope they tweak the change in amount of

>force points spent on a power based on alignment so that you have to stick more to

>what your alignment is.

 

Agree.  I personally think that ANYTIME someone uses the Force to cause DIRECT DAMAGE

to someone else, that this should cost Vitality points in addition to Force points.

However, the more LS you are in alignment, the more vitality it costs you.

 

Also, DSers could have a special feat tree to cut down on the amount of Vitality that such

powers cost.  But it only helps DSers.

 

 

>LS players could use another offensive power because force push (which as of the current games)

>is their only offensive power and it is not really an offenive power.

>Basically it just does some damage and incapacitates they enemy so that you have

>time to bring your saber to bear. All the other offensive powers belong to DS.

 

Force Push, Stasis and Throw Lightsaber are about it for LS and/or Universal offensive

powers.  Adding something like "Force Throw" as a Universal Power would be a welcome

addition.  While the movies may show DSers using this more than LS, I see nothing

inherently DS about it.

 

 

>A possible way to implement it is to just select to use it on a the targeted enemy

>and the computer decides which object to pick up and throw based on peramiters set by the devs.

>Maybe as you progress in proficiency with the power you gain the ability to throw multiple

>objects at one enemy, multiple objects at mutliple enemies, or one very massive object

>(maybe you break a pillar and throw it) at a entire group to damage or kill them all.

 

Force Throw>>Advanced Force Throw>>Projectile Storm

 

Force Throw = the AI decides which object to pick up and which opponent to target.

 

Advanced = the AI decides which object to pick up and you decide which opponent to target.

 

Projectile Storm = you decide which structure you want ripped apart and the AI targets all of

your opponents with the debris.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You basically quoted me and then said what I said in different words except in the end when you talked about the force power tree. I don't really trust the "AI" to pick my target so I would prefer to do it myself.

[Plano Skywalker]

You basically quoted me and then said what I said in different words except in the end when you talked about the force power tree. I don't really trust the "AI" to pick my target so I would prefer to do it myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

pretty much...also the bit about losing Vitality with DIRECT DAMAGE attacks.

what do you think about that?

[metadigital]

Just have a "reputation" stat. If you kill innocents then your rep reflects that. Also, if you are seen as the soft-touch of the universe, then you should be flocked by every hard-luck-Harry and Susy-sob-story in the game.

 

The easiest way to prevent killing story-significant NPCs is to annouce that the PC has just prevented themselves from finishing the main plot (