I sense a disturbance in the Force...

[nightcleaver]

Even better, I say Viruses and such one-celled organisms had it right Extremely efficient, extremely adaptable.

 

 

Here's what I think: The Force is a metaphysical mirroring of all physical objects. This "connection" of all life may just appear to exist because of our own concepts of evil. But also, in a sense, it exists; it is a sort of equation, as everything else is, when taken down to its most fundamental level.

 

Perhaps evil is just derivative of our own chemical-electrical responses. But perhaps it's not entirely correct to, essentially, say that those responses don't mean anything. They obviously do, because they exist.

At least, that's what I think.

 

About Kreia, I think her situation may be more personal than something widely philosophical about the Force. What bothers her, I believe, is what the Force did to her personally; It gave her everything, then stripped it away. She likes people to be independent from the Force because of that; a part of her believes that all good or Evil is just manipulation, because of that. I feel that she may just believe in the lack of free will, because of how easy it is to manipulate. After all, she continues to use the force, even though she hates it.

 

I feel this lack of free will isn't so much the will of the Force, as the will of all living things combined, perhaps - which will tend to maintain a balance - parasite and host, evil and good. Maybe all things are one, in that they are a single organism, as the Force. The Force, as a metaphysical extension of the Balance of Life, only helps the balance of life continue. But Kreia is disturbed that someone like her can be so screwed for the sake of this... balance.

 

So, you see... is free will her problem, or is it her problem that she was screwed?

[metadigital]

[1]Even better, I say Viruses and such one-celled organisms had it right   Extremely efficient, extremely adaptable. 

[2]Here's what I think:  The Force is a metaphysical mirroring of all physical objects.  This "connection" of all life may just appear to exist because of our own concepts of evil.  But also, in a sense, it exists; it is a sort of equation, as everything else is, when taken down to its most fundamental level.

[3]Perhaps evil is just derivative of our own chemical-electrical responses.  But perhaps it's not entirely correct to, essentially, say that those responses don't mean anything.  They obviously do, because they exist.

At least, that's what I think.

[4]About Kreia, I think her situation may be more personal than something widely philosophical about the Force.  What bothers her, I believe, is what the Force did to her personally; It gave her everything, then stripped it away.  She likes people to be independent from the Force because of that; a part of her believes that all good or Evil is just manipulation, because of that.  I feel that she may just believe in the lack of free will, because of how easy it is to manipulate.  After all, she continues to use the force, even though she hates it.

[5]I feel this lack of free will isn't so much the will of the Force, as the will of all living things combined, perhaps - which will tend to maintain a balance - parasite and host, evil and good.  Maybe all things are one, in that they are a single organism, as the Force.  The Force, as a metaphysical extension of the Balance of Life, only helps the balance of life continue.  But Kreia is disturbed that someone like her can be so screwed for the sake of this... balance.

[6]So, you see... is free will her problem, or is it her problem that she was screwed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. They'll outlive most of us, but not all. They require a host. For this reason alone I would suggest multi-celled organisms were superior (which the armoured arthropods are a type; they turned up just after the sponge): the first organisms to allow for specialisation of the component cells; although you do have a good point about efficiency.

2. depends on your definition of matter: as I posted above, it can be argued that "evilness" is a distinct entity, like "goodness".

3. Even some religions can't give a meaningful definition of evil, preferring to call it a "mystery" to those of good disposition. Interesting to note that Christianity regards evil to be: Pride, Hypocrisy & Indifference -- apathy is death!

4. You might be right. :D After all, if Kreia is able to manipulate objects and people as easily as she is, then how hard could it be for the Force? And, like the guy that keeps getting killed by Arthur Dent, eventually she has put all the clues together and worked out that the Force is against her. (Whether it is or not.)

5. Yep, the Force could just be a small "f" force, like gravity. It might have a centre at neutral, or it might have a focus at any point in the continuum from Light to Dark, or it might even have more than one foci (like an elipse), causing a complex -- i.e. chaos theory non-linear -- interaction with the real universe. It might act on every particle of matter, just as gravity does, according to a set relationship, just like gravity (which is the inverse square of the distance between two particles).

6. Yes.

[nightcleaver]

We are multi-celled organisms. Couldn't it be said that we're using them? Or are they using us?

 

As far as I'm concerned, there are a lot of times that the parts of my body - registered in sensation - come into conflict. My brain resolves these conflicts, for better or for worse. Perhaps the Force does the same, in its way - which would mean that, in a way, it has no control, and is relatively apathetic. It is just as much as its smaller parts.

 

So, when you're hungry, but you've been given an important but daunting task, you might decide not to eat. It does a sacrifice - maybe a few cells die because of the stress, or from not eating, or both.

 

It's not so much that the Force knows what's right, as it dictates what is right. The Jedi use the Force, even as the Force uses them. This, I believe, is the nature of all power - "absolute power corrupts absolutely" - and probably why the Jedi devote themselves to avoiding the pursuit of power, and why the pursuit of power for a Jedi tends to mean falling to the "dark side". This corruption of power means more to someone with Force powers because of the metaphysical meaning of that power. If someone decides the cause of good and evil have no meaning, their intentions won't be warped to either extreme. Kreia, much as people would like to say that she is evil, did this exact thing.

 

What I ultimately mean is this: The Force believes what we want it to believe. We are its cells, and it is our host. As a metaphysical force, it only expands what we feed into it; we, as part of it.

[metadigital]

So the Force is some sort of group consciousness? Or Jungian "collective unconscious" / "objective psyche", that, additionally, is a living agglomerate of the minds of each passing generation.

 

So a small "f" force with a feedback loop management system, such that its focus is the limit of the sum of the series of marginal adjustments in alignment (the delta of our calculus) between Light and Dark.

 

But more than that, because you are also suggesting an accumulation of "wisdom" in the form of some sort of objective psyche, as well as the zeitgeit morality.

 

So you have a small "f force that appears to be exercising a will of its own, but in fact is just a function of the collective unconscious of all of (sentient) life and their alignments.

 

If that's true, then Kreia was wrong.

 

But Kreia was right! You need FAITH!

[E_Motion]

I too have also had major problems with the "wound in the force"/"death of the force" issue advanced in TSL. In analysing the issue, however, I find that I have come full circle to believing that KotOR 2 sets the stage for attempting to resolve the dilemma in KotOR 3. POSSIBLE SPOILER -- I also believe that KotOR 2 has all the basic elements needed to resolve the "wound in the force"/"death of the force" dilemma.

 

********************************************

I. THE PROBLEM

 

Centaur's initial post raises the issue that the ending of TSL doesn't resolve a major problem identified by the Jedi Council; namely, the Exile carries within him/herself, an innate "wound" or "hole" in the force.

 

According to the Council, the wound is the result of (i) the Exile's ability to form strong bonds with others who are force sensitive, combined with (ii) the massive deaths on Malachor V of Jedi and other troops who were force bonded to the Exile. This wound, or hole, which the Exile carries creates a vacuum or "hunger" that attracts other force sensitive people and causes them to follow the Exile's actions without thinking. The Exile's power grows as the number of followers grows. In addition, the Exile feeds on death because the hole grows larger and more powerful as the Exile causes more deaths. The Exile is therefore a threat to the force, and to all living things.

 

Another problem according to the Council, is that knowledge of the Exile's wound can be used to destroy the force. The Sith and others might stage future disasters to cause a wound in the force, and then use that wound to defeat the Jedi. The Council also believes that the current Sith threat, including the Kataar massacre, is based on knowlege the Sith learned from the Exile's wound in the force.

 

II. THE HOLE IN THE FORCE IS FUNDAMENTAL TO TSL

 

One cannot simply dismiss the concerns of the Council without dismissing TSL in its entirity. The wound in the force, its connection to the Exile, and the potential consequences of the wound are themes woven throughout TSL.

 

Visas was able to find the Exile because the Exile caused a disturbance in the force. Kreia repeatedly refers to the possibility that the Exile has the potential to destroy the force (for example in discussing her early years with Revan, she says that she saw in Revan the deaths of many Jedi, but in the Exile she sees the death of the force; at the ending she says the Exile carries the potential to see the force die).

 

Darth Nihilius is similarly said to be a wound in the force which arose out of the destructipon of Malachor. He is a hunger that cruises the galaxy in the Ravenger, feeding on the lives of force sensitives. In many ways, Darth Nihilius can be seen as an embodiment of the danger that the Council sees in the Exile.

 

III. THE COUNCIL'S SOLUTION IS FLAWED

 

When last seen, the Council was in the process of addressing the dangers inherent in the the Exile's force wound by stripping the Exile of all connection to the force. But the Council's potential solution is flawed.

 

If the current Sith menace is based on knowledge of the Exile's wound, then Pandora's box is already open. Even if the Council did somehow manage to successfully supress all current knowledge of the Exile's force wound, and all knowledge of the current "hunger" techniques used by the Sith, the Council's actions will neither heal, nor hide, the Exile's force wound. After all, the Exile didn't heal the wound by cutting her/himself off from the force. The wound was also visible to the Council when the Exile wasn't connected to the force.

 

Also the Council should have noticed that the Exile's current connection to the force has caused good, not harm. It is true that the Exile, and her/his followers, are responsible for a number of deaths. But it is also true that the current Council members specifically asked for the Exile's help (on Onderon and Dantooine) which caused the deaths. The same Council members also praised and rewarded the Exile for her/his actions despite the deaths. So even if the wound did attract other force sensitives to the Exile (a conclusion strongly disputed by the LS Visas), the net result was a greater good.

 

IV. A SOLUTION THE COUNCIL OVERLOOKED (AND POSSIBLE SPOILER)

 

We know from "Star Wars History" that the Jedi and the Force survived despite the Exile's force wound, and despite the "hunger" techniques of the Sith. It is therefore possible is that the dangers (as viewed by the Council) and benefits (as viewed by Kreia and the Sith) posed by the "wound in the force" were overblown. But perhaps there is something else.

 

Discussions between the Exile and Kreia, and between the Exile and GoTo (and perhaps elsewhere in the game) raise an issue which is not answered -- How did Revan manage to raise such a huge army so quickly? Kreia asks the same question to the Council just before ending their ability to harm the Exile "ever again".

 

Kreia then hints at the answer. She says the Mandalorian wars masked another war, a war of conversion that culminated in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from, save one. Interestingly, Atton has also mentioned a war of conversion. He said that that the real war Revan was fighting was a war to convert Jedi. To the best of my knowledge, only HK-47 fully explains this war of conversion. HK-47 tells the Exile that Revan used psychological warfare to convert Jedi; that massive deaths and atrocities weakened the Jedi and made them vulnerable to corruption or conversion to the dark side, and that "the lesson of Malachor" was that any Jedi involved in systematic slaughter will doubt and question themselves.

 

The key is therefore atrocities, like those committed at Malachor. Such atrocities were also the cause of the Exile's wound, and Nihilius's hunger. Additionally, it is noteworthy that two Jedi Masters have questioned the wisdom of the Council, because the Council never sought to understand what caused the Exile's wound. Kreia says much the same thing as she attacks the Council.

 

Here's the possible spoiler; I think KotOR3 is likely to develop the atrocity/corruption problem more fully, and will involve a search to identify a defense against the strategic use of atrocities. But Kreia has already told us that the Exile is the only Jedi who wasn't corrupted by the atrocities, thereby revealing that the answer lies in the Exile. She also hints at the answer, at the game's ending when she tells the Exile, "You are not a Jedi, not truly, and it is for that I love you."

 

HK-47 has gone one step further and actually spilled the beans. According to HK-47, Revan said that many Jedi had the ability to form connections to life around them, but did not do so because their dicipline prevented opening their lives to the passions around them. Revan said one would need to be a "human being" to develop such conections, and the Jedi code could not teach this. Revan also said that the Exile did have this capability and it would be the Exile's downfall. In tying so much of the Exile's self to others, the Exile risked that if the others suffered and died, the Exile would die as well.

 

So there you have it. The Exile is special among the Jedi because the Exile is also a human being. Although this makes the Exile vulnerable to the suffering of others, it also provides a defense against the strategic use of atrocities to convert LS Jedi to DS Jedi. As a human being (and not a true Jedi), the Exile was able to disconnect from the force in response to the atrocities, and therby avoid corruption.

[firehawk12]

So what then? Kreia wanted to teach the Exile who to kill the force so that he could kill the "True" Sith out in the unknown regions?

[E_Motion]

So what then?  Kreia wanted to teach the Exile who to kill the force so that he could kill the "True" Sith out in the unknown regions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think Kreia's final goals were (i) to defeat Malachor, itself; and (ii) preserve, one way or another, what the Exile had learned.

 

Malachor, and the dark energies it contained, had been the ultimate cause of Kreia's fall to the dark side. Kreia wanted the Exile to defeat her on Malachor because that would also mean the defeat of Malachor, itself. This, I believe, is what Kreia meant when she said, "By killing me here, you have rewarded me more than you could possibly know."

 

Kreia said something else which I think reveals her second goal and also something of the Exile's future. She said, "What you have learned must not be allowed to die."

 

Consider for a moment the tomb in the cave on Korriban. What was Kreia trying to teach the Exile? I think Kreia's message was that the war between the light side and dark side inevitably results in victory by the dark side. The logic here: (i) The dark side can win outright. Game over. (ii) The alternative, defeat of the dark side, will also mean victory for the dark side because the LS/DS battle will inevitably involve sufficient horror and atrocity to corrupt the LS warrior.

 

What had the Exile learned that Kreia wished to preserve? One might put it this way. The war of beliefs, against the true Sith, cannot be won through use of the force alone. At times, the LS warrior must be prepared to use the strategy, "Don't use the force, Luke."

 

I think this also explains why Kreia's revelations of the future did not include the Exile's future. Kreia's visions of the future were based on what she could see through the force. She told the Exile that she/he could choose their own path. This is possible because the Exile isn't subservient to the force. In turn, the Exile's future is neither determined by, nor visible through, the force.

[metadigital]

Nice supposition. OE would have done worse than employ you on their author team.

I. THE PROBLEM

 

Centaur's initial post raises the issue that the ending of TSL doesn't resolve a major problem identified by the Jedi Council; namely, the Exile carries within him/herself, an innate "wound" or "hole" in the force.

 

According to the Council, the wound is the result of (i) the Exile's ability to form strong bonds with others who are force sensitive, combined with (ii) the massive deaths on Malachor V of Jedi and other troops who were force bonded to the Exile.  This wound, or hole, which the Exile carries creates a vacuum or "hunger" that attracts other force sensitive people and causes them to follow the Exile's actions without thinking. The Exile's power grows as the number of followers grows. In addition, the Exile feeds on death because the hole grows larger and more powerful as the Exile causes more deaths. The Exile is therefore a threat to the force, and to all living things.

 

Another problem according to the Council, is that knowledge of the Exile's wound can be used to destroy the force.  The Sith and others might stage future disasters to cause a wound in the force, and then use that wound to defeat the Jedi.  The Council also believes that the current Sith threat, including the Kataar massacre, is based on knowlege the Sith learned from the Exile's wound in the force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You still haven't dealt with the wound. To paraphrase your comments, the "wound" is:

(i) the Exile's strong bonds with others and

(ii) the deaths of those who were bonded to the Exile (e.g. on Malachor V)

then, what is it?

This vacuum or "hunger" that attracts other force sensitive people and causes them to follow the Exile's actions without thinking. The Exile's power grows as the number of followers and the amount of death grows

[E_Motion]

Metadigital,

 

First, thanks for your kind comment.

 

Second, Everytime I see your avitar, I just know that I have played whatever game it came from, but cannot place it. Was it Divine Divinity?

 

Finally, you have raised some good questions. As I have considered them, I've found some other interesting things; perhaps a few hidden doors in the plot.

 

I think the major issue you raise is that the "hunger" and "danger" aspect of the wound still remains. There are several different avenues to solve the problem.

 

The most straightforward answer is to compare the actual events to the fears of the Jedi Council. The wound carried by the Exile simply does not produce the negative results that the Council expects. In part this can be explained by the fact that the LS Exile isn't corrupt. A sword is dangerous but can be used for good (maybe).

 

At the next deeper level, Visas provides a different explanation. She says (in the scene that has come to be known as 'force sex') that the Council is flat out wrong; that she is with the Exile of her own free will; and that whatever actions she takes will be because she decided to take that action. She tells the Exile, "They do not understand what it means to be human." Her analysis fits nicely with the "human being" distinction that Revan has ascribed to the Exile.

 

Visas has solved the matter. But there is one fly in the ointment; Mira.

 

As male LS Exile, I have repeatedly "hit" on Mira, and know her lines almost by heart. There is this one line of questions in which you ask her why she doesn't kill her targets; she explains; and you can select a follow-up question about how she doesn't hesitate to kill when she is with the Exile. She replies something to the effect that she knows and she doesn't like it.

 

So is the Council right and Visas wrong? Or is there something else? I think that if one looks carefully, there is an answer, and it opens up something carefully hidden in plain sight.

 

Recall discussions with Kreia about Visas. Here there is a line of questions as to why Visas was the sole survivor on Kataar. The net result is that Kreia admits she is puzzled, and says if you find an answer, come talk with her about it. The same topic comes up during the Exile's discussions with Visas; but Visas doesn't know why she was spared. However, there is a clue during Visas' conversation with Handmaiden, and also in other portions of Visas' conversations with the Exile.

 

Visas tells Handmaiden that if Handmaiden doesn't believe that Visas means no harm to the Exile, perhaps Handmaiden will believe that Visas wishes to learn from the Exile. She also tells the Exile in the normal lines of question that when she first "heard" the Exile through the force, she found that she could not ignore it; and she further says that the Exile has some sort of a greatness that doesn't stem from the force.

 

Now add one more piece to the Visas puzzle. When Kreia tells Exile of Visas' future, Kreia says Visas returns to her homeworld and gazes on it's surface, but Kreia cannot see what happens after that.

 

My conclusion is that Visas has something of that same "human being" aspect that makes the Exile special. It was that "human being" quality that made her different from everyone else on her planet, and explains why she didn't die with the rest. I think that like the Exile she carries a wound created by all of those deaths on her world. That is why she is drawn to the Exile; and that is why she wants to understand how the Exile has managed to live despite the suffering he endured. And I think she must come to finally understand or develop her non-force human aspect when she revisits her planet; at which point Kreia can no longer see Visas.

 

I suspect that even though Kreia understands the Exile much better than the Jedi Council, that she also doesn't fully understand what it means to be human. And at the game ending when she tells the Exile that he must leave Visas behind, Kreia explains that it is necessary for a Jedi to do such things. But Kreia has previously told the Exile that he is not truly a Jedi. So perhaps Visas will turn up again in the future.

 

Back to Mira; she perhaps is subservient to the force more than she or the Exile knows. She finds her bounties by just walking. Now to her future. After a number of years she dies on a distant planet, but "it will be her choice". Hmmm, if she can truly make a choice, then the outcome of her choice shouldn't be predetermined and in that event Kreia cannot know the outcome. Perhaps Mira will learn how to become free of the force and Kreia misinterprets that as death.

 

Let me return to the "wound" issue. Now there seem to be two answers to the problems forseen by the Council. First, the Exile isn't corrupt and also isn't controlled by the force. So the wound doesn't have the same harmful consequences as it would in a non-human (Jedi or Sith) case. Second, some followers can also have a "human" nature that allows them to act independently of the Exile, despite his wound.

 

This is getting too long; but let me quickly add a comment about Atton. If you go through the HK-47 conversation, you will find that HK-47 says that only non-Jedi and non-Sith are capable of concealing their minds from force users by a technique of thinking various passionate thoughts. Atton, however, has previously told the Exile that he used thoughts of various passions to hide his intentions from Jedi targets. Kreia also can see very little of Atton's future. So we may also see Atton again.

 

I'll leave it here.

[EnderAndrew]

The Wound was capable of causing further destruction to the Force.

 

First off, you need to understand the Jedi are terrified of anything they aren't familiar with in the Force, and so they shunned it which was a mistake.

 

That Wound may have put Nihilius on his/her path, and may have eventually lead to the death of the Force had the Exile not stopped Nihilius.

 

Kreia also objected to you training anyone else, if you recall. She urged you not to take on any new companions. She wanted the Force to die out with you, but in most cases, you do train someone.

 

Either way, even without Jedi, the Force exists in all living things. If the Wound has a way to threaten the Force in all things, then there is more to the story we don't know.

[metadigital]

Just a couple of points as its late:

1. Good thoughtful stuff. I hadn't actually tried to construct such a cogent hypothesis, as I found the (obvious) shortcomings put me off before I got started (because what's the point if the theory is fatally flawed? :D )

2. Visas might believe with all her heart that she is exercising her own free will, but that leads us to a metaphysical discussion on whether there exists free will or just the Force providing the illusion of free will.

3. I like the bit about Mira leaving the Force's sphere of control, that seems to fit the conversations.

4. It is also possible that this "wound" was centred on M5 and is linked to the Exile. I'm still not happy with what this wound is; I agree the council were mistaken to ignore it.

 

Perhaps there is merit in the Exile embracing a more humanistic outlook, encompassing the spectrum of emotions and dealing with them (as in the Prophet).

 

I still have trouble with this cacade overload reaction in the Force caused by the echo / wound. I think it's overstated: I don't think it means the end of the Force and I don't think the universe without the Force is completely dead (the Exile survived -- and of course we here in our reality have a universe devoid of the force )

 

Unfortunately I can't see any easy way to resolve this (it is almost 5am though), so I will have to meditate on this.

[Laozi]

[Shryke]

Metadigital,

 

First, thanks for your kind comment.

 

Second, Everytime I see your avitar, I just know that I have played whatever game it came from, but cannot place it.  Was it Divine Divinity?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

its Daedalus from Deus Ex if i remember correctly

 

and for that "fourth wall" thing, i immediately think of hot shots

[metadigital]

Metadigital,

 

First, thanks for your kind comment.

 

Second, Everytime I see your avitar, I just know that I have played whatever game it came from, but cannot place it.  Was it Divine Divinity?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

its Daedalus from Deus Ex if i remember correctly

 

and for that "fourth wall" thing, i immediately think of hot shots

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Yep, it's D

[Calax]

on the force wound.

 

 

From what I could get from it is that the developer's were trying to rationalize the fact that you could go to all these planets almost depopulate them and not get a single dark side point. Extrappolating from this the best I can come up with is that the exile is doing is taking the life energy from a creature that he as killed and storing it in himself. Basically he steals a targets soul and adds it to his collection. The hunger is from the fact that Nihilus uses his force so much that he is constantly running low so he has to replenish it. If he was a car he'd have a small tank. Best guess for the reason that he spared Visas is because she can obviously find force users' that get lost in the chaff, he would need these to replenish his strength... the only problem with this would be that the exile never gets hungry. So we try another approach along the same lines. Nihilus uses the souls as a drug. to stop feeding would be like a Meth user trying to go cold turkey. it just isn't possible. Exile doesn't have that problem because his "wound" that he's trying to fill in is not self inflicted. (at least not on purpose) since we don't know all that much about nihilus this is the best we can do for the time. Feel free to disect me considering that I don't know all that much about this sort of thing.

[Calax]

nobody pays attention to this anymore :'(

[abkhome]

i am steal interested lol

[Calax]

yeah but i like the technical battle over what could happen and it died on me! it's only 9 pm here

[metadigital]

on the force wound.

From what I could get from it is that the developer's were trying to rationalize the fact that you could go to all these planets almost depopulate them and not get a single dark side point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It sounds like you are suggesting that it was just a cheap tactic, almost like there were no writers involved in the narrative ...

Extrappolating from this the best I can come up with is that the exile is doing is taking the life energy from a creature that he as killed and storing it in himself. Basically he steals a targets soul and adds it to his collection. The hunger is from the fact that Nihilus uses his force so much that he is constantly running low so he has to replenish it. If he was a car he'd have a small tank. Best guess for the reason that he spared Visas is because she can obviously find force users' that get lost in the chaff, he would need these to replenish his strength... the only problem with this would be that the exile never gets hungry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would say that any storing of life energies would be equivalent to adding capacity to the Exile's Force Point potential. You may be right, because every level (gained after killing enough enemies or progressing the plot) yields more Force Points.

So we try another approach along the same lines. Nihilus uses the souls as a drug. to stop feeding would be like a Meth user trying to go cold turkey. it just isn't possible. Exile doesn't have that problem because his "wound" that he's trying to fill in is not self inflicted. (at least not on purpose) since we don't know all that much about nihilus this is the best we can do for the time. Feel free to disect me considering that I don't know all that much about this sort of thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This analogy breaks down because it doesn't matter whether the heroin / crack / cocaine / whatever drug addict's addiction was self-inflicted or they were forced ( <_< ) by someone else.

[Calax]

it was still a good try though. Well then i guess the sould of humans have become his food, I wonder what his excrament is...

[metadigital]

Entropic soular eminations? :D

[Calax]

if that were the case he might be able to run his ship off of (quite literally) s**t

[metadigital]

Nah, the entropic nature means that they are degraded to the point of uselessness. And the ship, so far as I understand it, doesn't run off Force Points or ghostly remnants of souls (there are scenes of the X-Wing fighters and the Millennium Falcon fueling up in the OT, after all).

[Calax]

actually if you think about it the ravenger kida does. He's completly burnt out all of his troops who run the thing so that all that's left are little atomatons for him to toy with at his lesure. these run the the as well as fight for him. course why he uses basic soldiers to fight for him is another matter altogether. he destroyes peoples brains like what happened to revan. only problem is that he doesn't restructure their minds. he just leaves them like that so he can use them.

 

Personally i think that if they had gotten rid of the basic sith soldier it would have gone much better for all overall. Maybe have corrupted people (atomotons) act like battle droids. they don't eat, sleep, heck they can't be truly called alive so they would be able "take a licken and keep on ticken" and easily overwhelm any opposing forces.