Bastila vs Visas (lightsabers drawn!)

[Jedi Valius]

So there are unfair fights like Bastila vs Anakin Skywalker...how 'bout a challenge from similar time periods.

 

Who would win in a fight...lightsabers, force powers, blasters?

[Hildegard]

Bastilla, LS or DS, would crush Visas in terms of lightsabers or force powers...

[AlaricQelDroma]

Bastilla, LS or DS, would crush Visas in terms of lightsabers or force powers...

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Mira would smack both of them in the jaw, then shove a tazer dart up their holes like **** :D

 

Come on, this is so elementary...I can start a fight over these things right here and right now, but it would probably throw this entire board into anarchy within 5 hours

 

So, let's just not be doing these posts anymore, I'll STFU about Mira, and everyone can STFU about Bastilla...You know, the girls around these boards are probably more than a little tired and pissed off at us guys for pwning the boards all day and night long :D

[Nitron]

Bastilla, easily. Were it not for Nihilous/The Exile, Visas would be nothing.

Bastila has far more skill and power. Plus, she has confidence. And if you go into a battle, worrying about the outcome, you will lose.

 

And Bastila would wipe the floor with Mira. (w00t)

[AlaricQelDroma]

Bastilla, easily.  Were it not for Nihilous/The Exile, Visas would be nothing.

Bastila has far more skill and power.  Plus, she has confidence.  And if you go into a battle, worrying about the outcome, you will lose.

 

And Bastila would wipe the floor with Mira.  (w00t)

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You think so, eh, Junior? :D

 

Mira is better because she's ignorant, that counts more than Bastardilla's crappy "Holier-Than-Thou" personality, and that FAKE Crumpet voice...It's nearly as bad as the FAKE Ruskie accents in the Bond movies...Pah! <_<

[Nitron]

Ignorant? I hate stupid people. I played a Ranger in BGII with racial enemy Illithid, with the justification that killing them would mean less stupid people in the world.

I've met people who are so stupid, they literally leave me speechless. If ignorance is bliss, they must be very &*%$ing happy! As Desharik says "By the gods, I feel stupider for having spoken with them. Stupider? More stupid? Gah! Get them out of here! They may all have his disease of the mind!"

 

You dont like Bastila's attitude? It's kind of like she's the teacher, and you're the naughty school boy. Ummm...not that I'm into that. "

 

And Junior? I'm 24.

[AlaricQelDroma]

Ignorant?  I hate stupid people. I played a Ranger in BGII with racial enemy Illithid, with the justification that killing them would mean less stupid people in the world.   

I've met people who are so stupid, they literally leave me speechless.  If ignorance is bliss, they must be very &*%$ing happy! As Desharik says "By the gods, I feel stupider for having spoken with them.  Stupider? More stupid? Gah!  Get them out of here!  They may all have his disease of the mind!"

 

You dont like Bastila's attitude.  It's kind of like she's the teacher, and you're the naughty school boy.  Ummm...not that I'm into that.  "

 

And Junior?  I'm 24.

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Hahah....No, I've always known everything since I was very young because I could memorize what everyone said all the time....However, the only reason I like Mira is because she's easy to control...Bastardilla would be annoying...

 

Alas, Trump may be ranking #2 on the Most Stupid Person In The World List, but Stupid or not, he does know how to pick his dates

[Darth Frog]

Bastila was born with a very high Createpointichlorian count (38) but Visas' wasn't bad either (at least 35) and at level 6 she actually has the exact same attributes as Bastila had at level 3. Both are Sentinels.

 

So Bastila is one attribute point ahead but that won't buy her anything at all, because Visas as a TSL Sentinel has the same BAB progression as a Guardian and just one less feat (three more than Bastila by level 20). So Visas would easily wipe the floor with Bastila in straight physical combat - even without the new TSL powers like Energy Resistance, Force Barrier and Battle Meditation. Yep, Bastila cannot use Battle Meditation to boost herself but Visas can.

 

Blasters: in addition to having higher BAB, Visas can also deflect Bastila's blaster bolts in a blaster duel but Bastila cannot deflect while wielding a blaster. Energy Resistance and Battle Meditation tip the scales even more in Visas' favour. Absolutely no contest here.

 

With regard to Force powers things are less clear. Visas can lower Bastila's Will saves via Battle Meditation while Bastila has an extra attribute point that will give her at most one additional mod to her Force DC. Master Force Body might allow Visas to out-force Bastila.

[Nitron]

Ugh, you cant do it like that. If we assume they are fighting, we have to assume they are on a level playing field. Same BAB/skill/feat progression, same choice of powers same items available. Just cause the devs added things, doesnt mean that there is no way that the chars in part one should even have them. I mean if you wandered around BGII with your crappy little level 9 mage wielding a +1 staff and only a handful of spells, you would die quite horribly. But then your level 30 Sorcerer with epic level spells, Staff of the Magi, and Vecna's Robe pops into BGI, and kicks the crap out of everything without taking a single hit. Is that fair? No!!

[Blarghagh]

You dont like Bastila's attitude? It's kind of like she's the teacher, and you're the naughty school boy.

 

Don't you mean the school boy who gets naughty with the teacher?

 

"I think we should press our slimy, mucuous covered lips together in the cargo hold."

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Ugh, you cant do it like that. If we assume they are fighting, we have to assume they are on a level playing field. Same BAB/skill/feat progression, same choice of powers same items available. Just cause the devs added things, doesnt mean that there is no way that the chars in part one should even have them. I mean if you wandered around BGII with your crappy little level 9 mage wielding a +1 staff and only a handful of spells, you would die quite horribly. But then your level 30 Sorcerer with epic level spells, Staff of the Magi, and Vecna's Robe pops into BGI, and kicks the crap out of everything without taking a single hit. Is that fair? No!!"

 

No less fair than a fight between me and Mike Tyson.

[AlaricQelDroma]

You dont like Bastila's attitude? It's kind of like she's the teacher, and you're the naughty school boy.

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Don't you mean the school boy who gets naughty with the teacher?

 

"I think we should press our slimy, mucuous covered lips together in the cargo hold."

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Hey, one of my English teachers in Hoe School was 23 and the cheerleading coach, you could only IMAGINE how many people hounded her, although I was the one with all the brains out of the bounch, but that didn't win me much because I was 400 LBS. back then before I had bypass surgery in '03

[kalimeeri]

Sorry, just the image this question brought up...

 

Bastila: "Look, no-eyes. You think that just because the Jedi were responsible for completely destroying your planet and all of the Miraluka men, that we owe you one of ours. Well, you're wrong. I got mine, now you run along and find yourself a nice little Wookie doll, 'cause you can't play in the big leagues. You want to see what 'Battle Meditation' REALLY is?. Oops, sorry, you can't. No eyes."

 

Visas: "Your life ... is mine."

 

Rrrrrooowwl... hiss.

[AlaricQelDroma]

Sorry, just the image this question brought up...

 

Bastila:  "Look, no-eyes.  You think that just because the Jedi were responsible for completely destroying your planet and all of the Miraluka men, that we owe you one of ours.  Well, you're wrong.  I got mine, now you run along and find yourself a nice little Wookie doll, 'cause you can't play in the big leagues.  You want to see what 'Battle Meditation' REALLY is?.  Oops, sorry, you can't.  No eyes."

 

Visas:  "Your life ... is mine."

 

Rrrrrooowwl... hiss.

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Well...That...Was...Informative...And....Intelligent....Sigh! <_<

[Aegis]

No less fair than a fight between me and Mike Tyson.

 

I wouldn't call that a fair fight, but at least both of you would abide under the same mechanical rules (physics, that is). That's just a matter of who's best at utilize the same potential, whereas a fight between Bastila and Visas would either have to ignore the game universe, or apply remarkably different rules for each character. I tend to go with the former (in so far I go with anything, given the nature of this discussion).

 

I'd go with Bastila, though. She's been trained as a jedi since she was very young (at least, shall we say, 12 years at an enclave and another 5 wherever after KotOR1) and is supposedly fairly strong in the force. Visas has been training for a max of 9 years, probably less, under a master that was probably not very interested in teaching her anything.

[kalimeeri]

Well...That...Was...Informative...And....Intelligent....Sigh! <_<

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RL. Bad day.

[Hydraliskk]

Visas, at least in terms of strength of will and overall confidence. I remember Bastila's little "sorry I can't go fight Malak with you because the pull of the Dark Side might be too strong" bit and I also recall Visas charging in against Nihilus without concerns of betraying her allies.

 

Really, Visas has the makings of a great Jedi Master. She's calm, collected, humble, and has a, shall we say, unique outlook on the galaxy thanks to her species' gift. Bastila was spoiled and arrogant, not the best traits for a Jedi to have.

 

Overall, Bastila always felt like a "follower", like some kind of Jedi/Sith remora, clinging to the underbelly of whoever had power at the moment (the Council, Revan, Malak, Revan). Visas, on the other hand, overcame what was possibly years of abuse and oppression to aid in the destruction her tormentor.

 

The way I see it, Visas has inner strength and Bastila doesn't. I give the battle to Visas, in body and mind.

[Jedi Valius]

Perhaps in the period straight after KOTOR, Revan could have taught Bastila some powerful skills (you know, him being the ex-Sith lord) that she could use to defeat Visas. Considering that Bastila had a level cap of 18 while Visas could level up higher than 20...

 

I really don't know which side to pick, cuz they are both fairly fomidable girls.

 

By the end of KOTOR, Bastila seemed to have developed some sort of maturity so she wouldn't be SO unconfident in rushing into battle.

[Darth Frog]

... whereas a fight between Bastila and Visas would either have to ignore the game universe, or apply remarkably different rules for each character. I tend to go with the former (in so far I go with anything, given the nature of this discussion).

 

I'd go with Bastila, though. She's been trained as a jedi since she was very young (at least, shall we say, 12 years at an enclave and another 5 wherever after KotOR1) and is supposedly fairly strong in the force. Visas has been training for a max of 9 years, probably less, under a master that was probably not very interested in teaching her anything.

 

In the game world, training/education is expressed in the form of feat/power chains and things like BAB. Somebody who received Guardian training will be able to hit harder - all other things being equal - than somebody who received the old Sentinel training, for example. Sentinels and Consulars obviously concentrate more on mental training than Guardians and less on physical, which explains why they have more Force oomph (FP/level) but less physical stamina (VP/level), and so on.

 

So the game world directly indicates that the new forms of training are more effective than the old ones under which Bastila was trained - the lightsabre forms were not even invented back then. Also, Darth Wuss completely messed up Bastila's abilities when he tortured her to turn her to the dark side. Visas would pwn her.

[Aegis]

Well, in that case, any character in KotOR2 could beat Revan with one hand behind his/her back. They had access to far more and more powerful feats and powers, and had a higher level cap. This despite the fact that most of them had perhaps a couple of months of training at most.

That's not a realistic conclusion, even by fantasy standards.

[AlaricQelDroma]

Well, in that case, any character in KotOR2 could beat Revan with one hand behind his/her back. They had access to far more and more powerful feats and powers, and had a higher level cap. This despite the fact that most of them had perhaps a couple of months of training at most.

That's not a realistic conclusion, even by fantasy standards.

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We *ALL* know K2 is not based upon the d20 rulebook, it was a blatant rip-off from it...Let's not argue this, because the last time I saw a debate like this over at LucasForums, it quickly turned into a flamewar.

 

K2 is unique, but if you want to be fair, then don't use K2's new rulebook, because that would basically be cheating, in fact, without my d20 mod for K2, I consider K2 to be a huge running cheat-code...There is no need for levels over 20, you just have to know how to make additions to d20 without going overboard like K2 did.

 

The Feats and Powers can stay, but the extra levels are just cheating in my book, and totally un-needed, as NONE of your enemies will be powerful enough to even touch you unless you're using a mod like Hardcore...Don't try to argue with me on that point, it is a FACT that by the time you finish the second planet, you are so powerful that nothing can even touch you unless you intentionally let yourself get damaged...

[Darth Frog]

Perhaps in the period straight after KOTOR, Revan could have taught Bastila some powerful skills (you know, him being the ex-Sith lord) that she could use to defeat Visas.  Considering that Bastila had a level cap of 18 while Visas could level up higher than 20...

 

The cap was 20, not 18. So Bastila would have received the old Sentinel training up to the level we left her at (20 or whatever) but in the meantime she could have received the newer, more efficient training and perhaps even taken a prestige class.

 

But the story<->game parallels break down in a hurry if you consider that you bring Visas from level 6 to level 29 in just a few hours/days. Let's be generous and say that Visas gained about one level per game day. How many levels would Bastila have gained then even at the much more sedate pace of, say, one level per month?

[Kaftan Barlast]

Visas would just have to pout and Bastila would be overrun with the army of hormone-laden teen-jedi looking to charge up her boarding ramp.

[AlaricQelDroma]

Visas would just have to pout and Bastila would be overrun with the army of hormone-laden teen-jedi looking to charge up her boarding ramp.

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Ha, right there, milady

 

Thank you for stating the obvious...I was wondering if anyone, male or female, would come to realize how pointless these topics are.... :D

[FortranDragon]

You dont like Bastila's attitude?  It's kind of like she's the teacher, and you're the naughty school boy.  Ummm...not that I'm into that.  "

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Bastilla reminds me of the typical young person (say, 18 to 25, ;-)) that has been tossed into a position of authority/responsibility with little or no support or coaching/consulting. She's made the bog-standard mistake of trying to control and/or micro-manage everything. She gets very defensive about anything that might question her authority or fitness to be in charge because she knows inside just how unprepared she is. It is just that she's been told she can't be undecisive or hesitant because "it's bad for moral".

 

:sigh: I'm very tolerant of her because I know from decades of experience that leadership (and management, too) are skill sets that are learned and take time to build/honed. Tossing someone in to 'sink or swim' all to often results in a dead body on the beach somewhere. Bastila didn't get the support she needed: another indictment of the failure of the Jedi Council.