DarthRevanRLZ Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Seriously... The latest Hannharr (Yes, me thinks he rocks) threads got me wondering on why exactly Mira was following the Exile. It's pretty obvious for the furrball, while for Mira, well... My second and last playthrough was DS so my memory may be spotty, but... Didn't Mira claim that she had been hired by the Jedi Master and was "keeping Goto off your back" but somehow still tried to sell you to Goto and kept commenting throughout the game about how you're still a bounty to her? I'll admit I haven't played a LS female yet, so maybe she's nicer, but still... So, what, that makes her a glorified bodyguard? Seriously, why on Earth's name wouldn't an Exile just dump her back on Nar Shaddaa or even better space her on Iziz or something right before the civil war? :D Don't get me wrong, I like the character, but it just seem you'd have more reasons (I'm speaking about the mission here, not the leather :D) to want Hannhar to stick around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 She's hot. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRevanRLZ Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 How informative. Wisdom in all its glory. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leia Emperius Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'd rather have a wookiee and be LS, personally. Mira doesn't really do anything for a female character other than offer some men advice and be the token scout class for your party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Elite_elite Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I hate wookies. I hope the Trandoshans kill them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witchzenka Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 She said she was working for G0t0, but she lied. She was working for Zez Kai-Ell. She tells you that after the escape from the droid yacht. She follows because she's Force Sensitive, and because she's drawn to the Exile. The Exile gathers in the lost and wounded one way or another. There are people like that IRL. *eyes the line of weirdos following her dh* -Zenka The Evil Cow http://kotorsocial.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricQelDroma Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 She said she was working for G0t0, but she lied. She was working for Zez Kai-Ell. She tells you that after the escape from the droid yacht.She follows because she's Force Sensitive, and because she's drawn to the Exile. The Exile gathers in the lost and wounded one way or another. There are people like that IRL. *eyes the line of weirdos following her dh* <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Heh, well, since I'm such a Mira fanatic (as I said earlier, my own gf is younger than I am, and she has the same type of personality, heh..), I guess I'll just say the following about this: She was on Nar Shadaa because Zez-Kai brought her there as a child after her parents died in the Mandalorian Wars and that massive explosion of Force energy and Bao's graviton explosions... Mira got hit hard by that, she felt her parent's presence in the Force wink out, and then she became a drifter until Zez-Kai found her, and he hid her away from Revan and Malak during those years of the Jedi Civil War, on Nar Shadaa.. Naturally, Zez-Kai knew that her innate abilities to sense others through the Force would let her survive on Nar Shadaa without him having to be there all the time to watch her Zez-Kai is a Sentinel, so it would stand to reason that Mira was rescued by him, and she probably learned a few things from him early in life, and that's why she became a Sentinel instead of a Consular or Guardian. IMHO, I think I'm going to mod Mira to be a Guardian or Consular, because I am just tired of having 90% of my Jedi team being Sentinel's...Atton's good if you know how to ultima-build him, and Mira is hell-on-wheels if you save most of her levels, between Evasion and the huge defense bonuses and save-throw bonuses, Mira is almost impossible to hit (At least on my build )... Now, I should note that I use the Prestige Padawans mod, but I only do this because I felt that the whole Prestige thing was not done enough, I think they cut the Prestige classes out of the team because they didn't have the time to make extra dialogue for making them a Prestige class (Although with the mod you only have to get your Jedi NPC's up to a certain alignment rating to become a prestige class, so no dialogue is needed really).... I think she's a refugee of the Mandalorian Wars, and when her parents died at Malachor or wherever, she definately felt that, and so it shut her off from the Force, and Zez-Kai was just protecting her while she was young.. Here are all the Master-Apprentice situations: Kreia - Teaches Revan, Sion, Exile, and potentially Nihilus, but then again, if Nihil is her apprentice, I'd say she more than ****ed up with him Master Kavar - Teaches Exile, and is probably his only marginal supporter on the Council since he was once in a war...As evidenced by Onderon, he never could detach himself from being involved in warfare Master Zez-Kai Ell - Teaches Exile, and gave Mira Adept training or something like it... Master Vrook - Teaches all the worthless Jedi cannon fodder that always get killed...I call his apprentices the "Redshirts of SW" Master Vash - Ok, she does appearently teach the Exile at some point, but it is questionable as to if she had anything to do with the major events in the galaxy, or if she was just a token Jedi Master that Obisidan scrounged up at the last minute because they couldn't imagine anyone with more charecter development Master Queen Bitch of the Universe (AKA Atris) - Teaches Exile appearently...Obviously she gave Brianna her Adept training...She is the traitor that Kreia talks about in one of the dialogue options with her Master Zhar - Teaches Revan.. Master Dorak - Teaches various Jedi of the Mandalorian Wars era, including Revan and Malak. Master Vandar - Unclear as to if he actually taught Revan before the Wars, or if it was just during K1...However, given the species's normal lifespan of 900 years or so, I'm willing to lay odds that Vandar had a big hand in training Revan and Malak, and I'm also willing to lay odds that he had a hand in Exar and Ulic as well...Especially their apprentices left over after the raid on Yavin 4... I think, ultimately, that we may finally either meet someone involved with Exar/Ulic, probably one of Yoda's race, or we may find a few Holocrons from those two...In K3...They talk so much about Exar and Ulic, but you have no real connection to them, or ANY of the *REAL* Sith Lords... Revan at least went back to Korriban and re-connected with the various Sith Lords there, or at least their remaining spirits in the Tombs... I found it rather dissapointing that you never found Tulak Hord's Holocron sitting around his Tomb...I know, Revan technichally took it from that Sith bitch in K1, but I still think in K3, there needs to be a better connection to the Sith Lords of old, instead of veiled references that sound like they were written by one of these paranoid Paranormal freaks on the Sci-Fi Channel (oh, how I *HATE* that channel!).... Pah...Anyway, Zez-Kai was responsible for Mira being on Nar Shadaa when she was a child, the memory of her parent's lives getting snuffed at Malachor or whereever just shut her sense of the Force down for years afterwords...That's why she doesn't really talk about Zez-Kai much, my guess is Zez-Kai only taught her enough to allow her to survive, then went to the Council to take care of things there, then of course we see him back at Nar Shadaa in K2... You know, I think that all these Masters were either born and/or raised on the worlds they are on in the game...Now, I know, this was a horribly-written play on the whole Obi-Wan going into exile on Tattooine, but I doubt it's mere coincidence that the Masters went to these planets to hide themselves behind strong emotions and basically a thick and faceless force barrier that no one could see through... I don't know...I think Vrook went to Dantooine because he was always there, much like Queen Bitch of the Universe was hiding away at Telos, and the other Masters were pretty-much just hiding on planets where they had been for most of their lives before they became Jedi Masters... Now, Vash is the ONLY exception, she went to Korriban to find something to use against the Sith, but all she got was dead of course...I dunno if she found something before she was killed, but I doubt it...Revan pretty much raped that planet dry before he/she left Korriban didn't have a faceless barrier of the Force to shield her from prying Sith eyes, so that's why she died...She didn't do a good job of hiding herself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witchzenka Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 That's your theory, right (Zez-Kai Ell rescuing Mira and training her)? You aren't presenting that as fact? Because I did not get that feeling at all. But it is a nice story. -Zenka The Evil Cow http://kotorsocial.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricQelDroma Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 That's your theory, right (Zez-Kai Ell rescuing Mira and training her)? You aren't presenting that as fact?Because I did not get that feeling at all. But it is a nice story. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why else would Zez-Kai even know her in the first place?? I mean, think about it...Jedi hate bounty hunters and mercenaries, they are beneath every Jedi Master's notice (asides from the genuine Masters and not the little pissants that get spammed all over the games and movies ), but yet Zez-Kai seems to know Mira more than just as another bounty hunter... She even mentions him once or twice in the dialogue options, so there is obviously a much deeper history than him simply hiring her to protect the Exile Could be he just found her on Nar Shadaa, sensed her Force sensitivity, then gave her a few pointers in exchange for keeping the Exile out of trouble (for what good THAT did ), and agreed to take care of the dirty carpet problem, too... I dunno, but there is definately some history between Zez and Mira, I feel that they just did not have enough time to develop that story-branch, like so many other pieces of the story, they just cut it off with a couple of mentions in the dialogue instead of developing that part of the story... So much of the story feels like it was hacked-off before it was 2/3's done, and they simply amputated things to make the ship date for x-mas...SIgh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witchzenka Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Like I said, it's a nifty and interesting story. :D I don't know that the Jedi hate mercs and bounty hunters either. -Zenka The Evil Cow http://kotorsocial.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricQelDroma Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Like I said, it's a nifty and interesting story. :D I don't know that the Jedi hate mercs and bounty hunters either. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I think it's pretty blatant during EP2 I mean, you can see the death-stares during the Obi-Jango conversation Plus it's was even more obvious when Mace hacked Jango's head off instead of simply disarming him Come now, I think it's plainly obvious that Jedi consider mercs and BH's to be wayyyy below their caliber Heh, well, they are below them, but well, uh, I guess that's just stating the obvious too much I guess Zaalbar and Hanharr...Blech...Even I can hunt better than them IRL...Of course, I have in-depth knowledge and experience with Ki/Chi and about a dozen other martial arts forms, so I guess that is not saying too much My near-perfect memory can be a detrimental thing at times...When I have painful problems in my past, they remain fresh in my mind's eye instead of staying in the recesses of my mind...Even when I've "resolved" those issues, they are still there...Pain in the ass...Or...The...Head? Sigh.... Of course, I have to weigh the benefits against the negatives all the time...Sigh... Not like I can just choose to live without it, heh...I wish my memory retention was like the Force... Damn, I wish there was a way to do a memory-wipe on the human brain...Damn primitive real-life medical science... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 She's hot. Nuff said. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricQelDroma Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 She's hot. Nuff said. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeh... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoffe -mkb- Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 She was on Nar Shadaa because Zez-Kai brought her there as a child after her parents died in the Mandalorian Wars and that massive explosion of Force energy and Bao's graviton explosions... Mira got hit hard by that, she felt her parent's presence in the Force wink out, and then she became a drifter until Zez-Kai found her, and he hid her away from Revan and Malak during those years of the Jedi Civil War, on Nar Shadaa.. (snip) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There are a few problems with that theory, IMHO: 1) ZKE didn't go to Nar Shadaa until after the Jedi Civil War had ended, in order to hide from Nihilus and Sion. He officially went there as part of Kavar's plan to lure out the unseen enemy by making them think there were no more Jedi. Though due to his own growing doubts with the Jedi, his real, personal reason for coming there was simply to hide and be forgotten. 2) Mira was one of the survivors of Malachor V. ZKE wasn't anywhere near Malachor V, he was sitting in the cozy Council Chamber of Coruscant debating on if the Order should help the Republic against the Mandalorians. And after the Mandalorian War had ended the Council had their hands full with Darth Revan's return, they'd have little time to spare going around doing warm fuzzy jedi things like helping orphans. 3) Mira says she followed the refugee streams after the war, like no doubt many other surviving Mandalorians did. For some reason many refugees end up on Nar Shadaa (one would think they'd steer clear of such an infamous place...) and thus she ended up on Nar Shadaa. In order to survive there she put what she learned from the Mandalorians to use, and became a bounty hunter. Her latent force abilities aided her greatly, though she didn't know that her "Sixth Sense" for finding people was the Force. She felt sympathy for the refugees and the lost since she'd been a refugee herself, and since she'd lost her parents. So a fair deal of her bounty hunting was of the non-violent sort, helping to hunt down and reunite people separated by the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibajoe Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Mira's only purpose is to die by Hanharr's hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerCecy Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 There are a few problems with that theory, IMHO: 1) ZKE didn't go to Nar Shadaa until after the Jedi Civil War had ended, in order to hide from Nihilus and Sion. He officially went there as part of Kavar's plan to lure out the unseen enemy by making them think there were no more Jedi. Though due to his own growing doubts with the Jedi, his real, personal reason for coming there was simply to hide and be forgotten. 2) Mira was one of the survivors of Malachor V. ZKE wasn't anywhere near Malachor V, he was sitting in the cozy Council Chamber of Coruscant debating on if the Order should help the Republic against the Mandalorians. And after the Mandalorian War had ended the Council had their hands full with Darth Revan's return, they'd have little time to spare going around doing warm fuzzy jedi things like helping orphans. 3) Mira says she followed the refugee streams after the war, like no doubt many other surviving Mandalorians did. For some reason many refugees end up on Nar Shadaa (one would think they'd steer clear of such an infamous place...) and thus she ended up on Nar Shadaa. In order to survive there she put what she learned from the Mandalorians to use, and became a bounty hunter. Her latent force abilities aided her greatly, though she didn't know that her "Sixth Sense" for finding people was the Force. She felt sympathy for the refugees and the lost since she'd been a refugee herself, and since she'd lost her parents. So a fair deal of her bounty hunting was of the non-violent sort, helping to hunt down and reunite people separated by the war. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was going to write all this stuff to contradict AlaricQelDroma theory... thanks stoffe. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerCecy Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 [cut for simplicity]My near-perfect memory can be a detrimental thing at times...When I have painful problems in my past, they remain fresh in my mind's eye instead of staying in the recesses of my mind...Even when I've "resolved" those issues, they are still there...Pain in the ass...Or...The...Head? Sigh.... Of course, I have to weigh the benefits against the negatives all the time...Sigh... Not like I can just choose to live without it, heh...I wish my memory retention was like the Force... Damn, I wish there was a way to do a memory-wipe on the human brain...Damn primitive real-life medical science... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Man, i think you need to see a doctor. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malagance Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Mira's only purpose is to die by Hanharr's hand <{POST_SNAPBACK}> -------------- "Silence dog, you were born for no other purpose but to die by my hand." -Jon Irenicus, Baldur's Gate II -------------- I didn't question why Mira was with me, but now that you bring it up, it is quite intriguing that this was never further explained. As for you, Alaric, considering your "near-perfect memory" (as troublesome as I'm sure it is) I'm surprised that you didn't put it to better use when constructing your argument... I operated under the impression that Jedi didn't hate anyone. You know, the whole 'path to the dark side' thing is a pretty convincing reason to stay away from that. And any Jedi who considers these individuals "beneath" them is suffering from arrogance, again, leading to the dark side. Consider spending more time double-checking the logic behind your theories instead of bragging about how your alleged mastery of the martial arts and ki would allow you to hunt better than a wookiee. Just a thought. My Personal Theory: Someone hired Mira to either take you in or protect you, not sure if a definite conclusion can be drawn on who hired her or for what purpose. Once she was near you, the force bond kicked in. Perhaps she only tosses out the "bounty" excuse as a token attempt at feigning independence from your increasingly dramatic effect on her life rather than as a legitimate reason/motivation for staying with you. This is the only way I can think to explain it. As you can see, even so, it is still filled with too many holes to carry much water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemo Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Mira was hired by Master ZKE. She told it. And she isn't a survivor from Malachor. She only said that her parents died on Malachor. But this doesn't mean that she was at Malachor, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricQelDroma Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Mira was hired by Master ZKE. She told it. And she isn't a survivor from Malachor. She only said that her parents died on Malachor. But this doesn't mean that she was at Malachor, too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> \ Wait, did I ever say that she was at Malachor, I only said her parents were Now now, you assume too much guys...I'm just theory-crafting because that is what I do when I'm not hacking games As for seeing a doctor, I've tried that, many times, there is simply no way to clear a human being's memory, at least not on the scale of my memory Damn primitive silicon...Damn primitive medical science...Damn primitive Earth politics...Sigh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Valius Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 how do you get mira to tell you about her or any of her relations being on Malachor? People keep saying thinks like she was a Mandalorian or a Mandalorian slave but how the hell do you find out she is even connected to Malachor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricQelDroma Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 how do you get mira to tell you about her or any of her relations being on Malachor? People keep saying thinks like she was a Mandalorian or a Mandalorian slave but how the hell do you find out she is even connected to Malachor? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The dialogues clearly state that her PARENTS were at Malachor, but she was elsewhere, probably didn't even know about her heritage at all... If you MUST know everything in this game, go download the 100% Influence Mod and the Skip Peragus Mod, you can get the entire storyline in a real hurry that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neroyume Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 The dialogues clearly state that her PARENTS were at Malachor, but she was elsewhere, probably didn't even know about her heritage at all... If you MUST know everything in this game, go download the 100% Influence Mod and the Skip Peragus Mod, you can get the entire storyline in a real hurry that way <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, Mira never says her parents died at Malachor, only that she lost family there. Mira was a slave of the Mandalorians and eventually grew to consider them something of a family. She never mentions her parents. To quote Mira herself: "As much as any slave becomes a Mandalorian. They took prisoners on every world they conquered to bolster their ranks - and they took a lot of worlds. I don't know, it didn't matter. I was too young to remember, really. Besides, Nar Shaddaa's kind of grown on me. It's as much my home as anyplace else.When I was young, yeah. They mostly used me to carry ammo packs and munitions. Toward the end of the war, they needed everyone they could get.They taught me to fight, to hunt, to survive. I was part of their squad, even when I was young. Everyone served as part of the unit, and I felt like I had a place there." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricQelDroma Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 The dialogues clearly state that her PARENTS were at Malachor, but she was elsewhere, probably didn't even know about her heritage at all... If you MUST know everything in this game, go download the 100% Influence Mod and the Skip Peragus Mod, you can get the entire storyline in a real hurry that way <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, Mira never says her parents died at Malachor, only that she lost family there. Mira was a slave of the Mandalorians and eventually grew to consider them something of a family. She never mentions her parents. To quote Mira herself: "As much as any slave becomes a Mandalorian. They took prisoners on every world they conquered to bolster their ranks - and they took a lot of worlds. I don't know, it didn't matter. I was too young to remember, really. Besides, Nar Shaddaa's kind of grown on me. It's as much my home as anyplace else.When I was young, yeah. They mostly used me to carry ammo packs and munitions. Toward the end of the war, they needed everyone they could get.They taught me to fight, to hunt, to survive. I was part of their squad, even when I was young. Everyone served as part of the unit, and I felt like I had a place there." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is called "reading between the lines", and/or "reading into the storyline", it is clearly obvious, at least to me, that her parents were Jedi, and seeing that 90% of the Jedi Order died at Malachor and Dxun during the Wars, I would tend to beleive that her parents were among those dead at Malachor.. In fact, I have a dialogue option to say TO HER that says "Do you blame me for your parents death?", or something to that effect...I can play through the game again and get the screens, give me an hour or two to start a fresh game and I'll post some images of this storyline stuff that people either have not managed to access through certain dialogue choices, or because they simply are too ignorant of the game's inner-workings to know how to get to these lines of dialogue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryDove Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I'll post some images of this storyline stuff that people either have not managed to access through certain dialogue choices, or because they simply are too ignorant of the game's inner-workings to know how to get to these lines of dialogue... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um...let's play nice here k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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