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Nvidia and ATI


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I just got an Nvidia 6800 GT Pci Express for my new pc.

 

Some differences:

 

While I cannot play at 1280x960(V-Sync not enabled) on the ATI due to weird graphic glitches, the Nvidia manages it without issue. The ATI doesn't experience this problem with other games. Having upgraded from Cat 5.2(Old Control Panel) to 5.3(Catalyst Control Centre), this appears to have been fixed.

 

With the ATI, I get the occasional CTD, about once throughout the entire game. Nvidia does not suffer from this. It could also be because the new pc uses an Nvidia Nforce 4 chipset rather than a Via.

 

The ATI always resets the desktop gamma upon exiting the game, while the Nvidia doesn't. Have to go into display properties to fix the screen brightness for the ATI, unlike the Nvidia.

 

Both cards do suffer from slowdowns, like at the Telos residential corridor, where the Czerka and Exchange offices are located.

 

The ATI does suffer from rare slowdowns in slightly more areas than the Nvidia.

 

All in all, between the ATI and Nvidia, I am leaning towards the Nvidia being better at least for KotOR 1/2.

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Both Nvidia and ATI are good cards. Period. The problem is that ATI needs to improve the quality and stability of their drivers.

 

Anyway, I've got an Nvidia Geforce 6800GT with 71.84 whql drivers (fresh off nvidia's site) and I still experience CTD's.

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Both Nvidia and ATI are good cards.  Period.  The problem is that ATI needs to improve the quality and stability of their drivers. 

 

Anyway, I've got an Nvidia Geforce 6800GT with 71.84 whql drivers (fresh off nvidia's site) and I still experience CTD's.

 

Out of curiosity, what chipset are you using? What error message do you get with the CTD?

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Yeah and i think there is a bigger picture. I think some cards are better in certain computers with certian chipsets etc. My current pc has had 2 Nvidia cards and 2 ATI cards over the course of about 4 years, and I greatly prefer the ATI becuase on my system they are more stable and allow me to play more games. So, I think its on a per-case basis. Addtionally, I will admit that there are qualities of each card that the other does not posses. Moreoever, in my experience the compatablility of cards seems to change on a yearly basis. One year ATI is heralded as the best becuase it is more stable, effecient, etc, and then a couple years later, its NVidia for the same reasons. LOL, its kinda interesting actually.

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I've got an nforce2 chipset (Abit NF7-S rev2)

 

hmm... i think the error message says something like...

windows encoutered an error in swkotor.exe and will close to application. something to that effect. it's been a while since I saw the error message.

Usually, I get the CTD after playing for about an hour. So, I just save and exit the game about every hour so that I don't get suprised by a CTD before I get a chance to save my game.

also, right before i get the crash the game will pause for a second and the sound will start looping.

 

 

here's a copy/paste out of event viewer:

Faulting application swkotor2.exe, version 2.0.0.0, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.2180, fault address 0x000122ba.

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I've got an nforce2 chipset (Abit NF7-S rev2) 

 

hmm... i think the error message says something like...

windows encoutered an error in swkotor.exe and will close to application.  something to that effect.  it's been a while since I saw the error message.

Usually, I get the CTD after playing for about an hour.  So, I just save and exit the game about every hour so that I don't get suprised by a CTD before I get a chance to save my game. 

also, right before i get the crash the game will pause for a second and the sound will start looping. 

 

 

here's a copy/paste out of event viewer:

Faulting application swkotor2.exe, version 2.0.0.0, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.2180, fault address 0x000122ba.

 

Thanks for the clarification. The error message you posted looks almost the same as what I get on the ATI gpu + Via Chipset, only difference is it always blames swkotor.exe or swkotor2.exe in my case. Hmm, I'm inclined to think it's the game engine that causes the crashing. I also get the pause and sound looping before I get dumped on the desktop with the error.

 

I just completed the game as a DS Consular/Sith Lord on the Nvidia machine and didn't encounter a single CTD so I guess it's just rarer on an Nvidia setup than ATI, or could be just the randomness of it.

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I've got an nforce2 chipset (Abit NF7-S rev2) 

 

hmm... i think the error message says something like...

windows encoutered an error in swkotor.exe and will close to application.  something to that effect.  it's been a while since I saw the error message.

Usually, I get the CTD after playing for about an hour.  So, I just save and exit the game about every hour so that I don't get suprised by a CTD before I get a chance to save my game. 

also, right before i get the crash the game will pause for a second and the sound will start looping. 

 

 

here's a copy/paste out of event viewer:

Faulting application swkotor2.exe, version 2.0.0.0, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.2180, fault address 0x000122ba.

 

Thanks for the clarification. The error message you posted looks almost the same as what I get on the ATI gpu + Via Chipset, only difference is it always blames swkotor.exe or swkotor2.exe in my case. Hmm, I'm inclined to think it's the game engine that causes the crashing. I also get the pause and sound looping before I get dumped on the desktop with the error.

 

I just completed the game as a DS Consular/Sith Lord on the Nvidia machine and didn't encounter a single CTD so I guess it's just rarer on an Nvidia setup than ATI, or could be just the randomness of it.

 

i'm leaning towards it being the engine too especially since it is occuring after a certain amount of time. Perhaps it has a memory leak when it is played on a certain combination of hardware and/or software (drivers, etc...)

one thing that I forgot to mention is that it seems to crash durning section loads (ie: going from indoors to outdoors or visa versa, boarding the ebon hawk or getting off, etc...) I could say, with some confidence, that it never crashes if stay in the same area the entire time.

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I've got an nforce2 chipset (Abit NF7-S rev2) 

 

hmm... i think the error message says something like...

windows encoutered an error in swkotor.exe and will close to application.  something to that effect.  it's been a while since I saw the error message.

Usually, I get the CTD after playing for about an hour.  So, I just save and exit the game about every hour so that I don't get suprised by a CTD before I get a chance to save my game. 

also, right before i get the crash the game will pause for a second and the sound will start looping. 

 

 

here's a copy/paste out of event viewer:

Faulting application swkotor2.exe, version 2.0.0.0, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.2180, fault address 0x000122ba.

 

Thanks for the clarification. The error message you posted looks almost the same as what I get on the ATI gpu + Via Chipset, only difference is it always blames swkotor.exe or swkotor2.exe in my case. Hmm, I'm inclined to think it's the game engine that causes the crashing. I also get the pause and sound looping before I get dumped on the desktop with the error.

 

I just completed the game as a DS Consular/Sith Lord on the Nvidia machine and didn't encounter a single CTD so I guess it's just rarer on an Nvidia setup than ATI, or could be just the randomness of it.

 

i'm leaning towards it being the engine too especially since it is occuring after a certain amount of time. Perhaps it has a memory leak when it is played on a certain combination of hardware and/or software (drivers, etc...)

one thing that I forgot to mention is that it seems to crash durning section loads (ie: going from indoors to outdoors or visa versa, boarding the ebon hawk or getting off, etc...) I could say, with some confidence, that it never crashes if stay in the same area the entire time.

 

I tend to think it's quite random. I have had CTDs like you during transitions from the Ebon Hawk to the exterior or while simply walking around. I also thought about the possibility of a memory leak. The funny thing though is that with a typical memory leak, you usually experience some kind of slowdown and then it crashes. Not so in this case where the CTDs happen so randomly without warning except for 1 second sound looping. I also get these rare CTDs in Neverwinter Nights, whose engine is what KotOR's engine is based on. No other games I play give me CTDs on the ATI.

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Heat build up could cause graphic issues as well. (Crashes, slow downs) Make sure you have a "cool" machine!

(Dual-Boot)Windows XP Pro (32 - Bit) SP3 & Windows Vista Ultimate (SP 1) 64 Bit | Intel Dual Core 2 Quad 6600 @ 2.4 Ghz | 8 GB Corsair DDR 3 Ram 1600 mhz | GeForce 9600 GT 512 MB PCI Express X 3 SLI enabled | NVidia Forceware Drivers 181.22| EVGA nForce 790I-SLI Ultra MOBO | Thermalake 850 Watt PWR |

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Heat build up could cause graphic issues as well. (Crashes, slow downs)  Make sure you have a "cool" machine!

 

True, though the signs of overheating are usually graphic artifacts, not a sudden crash to desktop. That said, the crashes only happen with Aurora/Odyssey-based engines so it seems heat is unlikely the cause.

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I still wouldn't touch an ATI card, even if it was given to me for free.  I would sell it and get an NVidia card.  Never had problems with a NVidia card with any of the games I have played.

And I wouldn't buy a nvidia card, X800 Pro@X800 XT beats GeForce 6800 GT and 6800 Ultra with their fancy Shader Model 3. ATI has monthly driver updates to fix problems quickly (nvidia updates every 6 months) and a much better support all around than nvidia; the fastest PC at CeBIT has a X850 XT PE. Don't listen to Hades and don't buy nvidia graphics cards or you'll get yourself in trouble. There are no problems with Catalyst 5.3, if there's a problem with a game it most likely is the game's fault, you can always report it to ATI or post it on http://www.driverheaven.net/forum.php and someone (even from ATI) will help you.

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Shader Model 3 is more efficent and is used in games like SC : Chaos Theory and the upcoming AOE3. My Geforce XFX 6800GT PCI-E keeps cool and runs the game nicely. The engine does suck alot out of the power, at at high setting with AF2x and AA 4x and 1204 x 1204 (or something like) I get an average of 30 - 40 FPS. Where on Halflife 2 a much more efficent engine i get 70 FPS at this setting.

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Shader Model 3 is more efficent and is used in games like SC : Chaos Theory and the upcoming AOE3. My Geforce XFX 6800GT PCI-E keeps cool and runs the game nicely. The engine does suck alot out of the power, at at high setting with AF2x and AA 4x and 1204 x 1204 (or something like) I get an average of 30 - 40 FPS. Where on Halflife 2 a much more efficent engine i get 70 FPS at this setting.

 

I run my 6800 GT at AF 4x and AA 8x at 1280x960 with decent fps. I cannot run it at AF 8x and AA 16x though as the fps drops too low then.

 

However with my ATI X800 XT PE, I can run it at AF 6x and AA 16x without breaking a sweat.

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Shader Model 3 is more efficent and is used in games like SC : Chaos Theory and the upcoming AOE3. My Geforce XFX 6800GT PCI-E keeps cool and runs the game nicely. The engine does suck alot out of the power, at at high setting with AF2x and AA 4x and 1204 x 1204 (or something like) I get an average of 30 - 40 FPS. Where on Halflife 2 a much more efficent engine i get 70 FPS at this setting.

 

Yes, Nvidia has fully implemented the new SM3.0 standard.

 

But, don't forget that ATI's current SM2.0b is also an advancement of the SM2.0 standard.

 

ATI had to name it different, because their shader model is different from the standard.

Nevertheless, it is not unlikely that some of ATI's own innovations (added in 2.0b) will make it into the (next) standard.

 

So, graphics card's special abilities of both manufacturers - not only Nvidia's - have not yet fully taken effect in current games (e.g. SM2.0b's improvements or ATI's compression technique 3Dc

"Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug

 

S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he

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Shader Model 3 is more efficent and is used in games like SC : Chaos Theory and the upcoming AOE3. My Geforce XFX 6800GT PCI-E keeps cool and runs the game nicely. The engine does suck alot out of the power, at at high setting with AF2x and AA 4x and 1204 x 1204 (or something like) I get an average of 30 - 40 FPS. Where on Halflife 2 a much more efficent engine i get 70 FPS at this setting.

 

I run my 6800 GT at AF 4x and AA 8x at 1280x960 with decent fps. I cannot run it at AF 8x and AA 16x though as the fps drops too low then.

 

However with my ATI X800 XT PE, I can run it at AF 6x and AA 16x without breaking a sweat.

 

Oh and another irritating aspect about the ATI is the gamma keeps resetting in-game. I have to keep going into the graphics settings to adjust the gamma otherwise it gets rather dark.

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Shader Model 3 is more efficent and is used in games like SC : Chaos Theory and the upcoming AOE3. My Geforce XFX 6800GT PCI-E keeps cool and runs the game nicely. The engine does suck alot out of the power, at at high setting with AF2x and AA 4x and 1204 x 1204 (or something like) I get an average of 30 - 40 FPS. Where on Halflife 2 a much more efficent engine i get 70 FPS at this setting.

 

I run my 6800 GT at AF 4x and AA 8x at 1280x960 with decent fps. I cannot run it at AF 8x and AA 16x though as the fps drops too low then.

 

However with my ATI X800 XT PE, I can run it at AF 8x and AA 16x without breaking a sweat.

 

Oh and another irritating aspect about the ATI is the gamma keeps resetting in-game. I have to keep going into the graphics settings to adjust the gamma otherwise it gets rather dark.

 

Same problem here.

 

I hope that they remembered it in the patch, though it is not really a serious bug.

"Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug

 

S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he

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Shader Model 3 is more efficent and is used in games like SC : Chaos Theory and the upcoming AOE3. My Geforce XFX 6800GT PCI-E keeps cool and runs the game nicely. The engine does suck alot out of the power, at at high setting with AF2x and AA 4x and 1204 x 1204 (or something like) I get an average of 30 - 40 FPS. Where on Halflife 2 a much more efficent engine i get 70 FPS at this setting.

 

I run my 6800 GT at AF 4x and AA 8x at 1280x960 with decent fps. I cannot run it at AF 8x and AA 16x though as the fps drops too low then.

 

However with my ATI X800 XT PE, I can run it at AF 8x and AA 16x without breaking a sweat.

 

Oh and another irritating aspect about the ATI is the gamma keeps resetting in-game. I have to keep going into the graphics settings to adjust the gamma otherwise it gets rather dark.

 

Same problem here.

 

I hope that they remembered it in the patch, though it is not really a serious bug.

 

KotOR 1 apparently also had the same problem when it first came out but it was fixed in a subsequent patch. Interestingly, the international patch is supposed to have addressed the issue however when I tried to use the automatic update, I was told my version, presumably US edition, was current.

 

Having played through on the Nvidia and comparing with the ATI, it is quite obvious the testers and developers had Nvidia in focus when the game was developed since Nvidia runs with less issues compared to ATI. Also the Aurora/Odyssey engines of which KotOR 1/2 and Neverwinter Nights are based on are also pro-Nvidia.

 

Support for ATI was more like a second thought provided through patches.

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Alright...I just can't help it anymore...

 

Boys...Remind yourselves of this simple phrase:

"It's the man, not the machine."

 

Rely on that more than you rely on cheapass marketing catch-phrases like FSAA,AF,TruForm,Shader model xxxx, and every other little piece of SOFTWARE code that gets made every other week by these little coders.

 

IMHO, it's all about what the hardware can do natively, all of these little software code features are just superflous and totally inane to the over-all performance of a piece of hardware.

 

Learn how to properly mod and tweak your hardware, too. Don't rely on modded drivers so much, learn your hardware and how to manipulate it to serve you better. Properly making and running a PC is not all that dissimalar from sculpting a new apprentice :lol:

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Alright...I just can't help it anymore...

 

Boys...Remind yourselves of this simple phrase:

"It's the man, not the machine."

 

Rely on that more than you rely on cheapass marketing catch-phrases like FSAA,AF,TruForm,Shader model xxxx, and every other little piece of SOFTWARE code that gets made every other week by these little coders.

 

IMHO, it's all about what the hardware can do natively, all of these little software code features are just superflous and totally inane to the over-all performance of a piece of hardware.

 

Learn how to properly mod and tweak your hardware, too. Don't rely on modded drivers so much, learn your hardware and how to manipulate it to serve you better. Properly making and running a PC is not all that dissimalar from sculpting a new apprentice :lol:

 

 

Why don't you start by telling us how to fix the intermittent gamma issues with ATI cards?

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Alright...I just can't help it anymore...

 

Boys...Remind yourselves of this simple phrase:

"It's the man, not the machine."

 

Rely on that more than you rely on cheapass marketing catch-phrases like FSAA,AF,TruForm,Shader model xxxx, and every other little piece of SOFTWARE code that gets made every other week by these little coders.

 

IMHO, it's all about what the hardware can do natively, all of these little software code features are just superflous and totally inane to the over-all performance of a piece of hardware.

 

Learn how to properly mod and tweak your hardware, too. Don't rely on modded drivers so much, learn your hardware and how to manipulate it to serve you better. Properly making and running a PC is not all that dissimalar from sculpting a new apprentice :lol:

 

 

Why don't you start by telling us how to fix the intermittent gamma issues with ATI cards?

 

 

No problem.

 

I have a little program I use to set everything up just right:

http://praxisoft.com/pages/products.wiziwyg.html

 

Try that out, if that won't work, use RadLinker to set your gamma levels and so forth...I have never once encountered a single gamma bug...Must be luck, or I'm doing something right that I haven't quite pinned a name on yet :(

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