The Kreia/Kae Question

[Darth Flatus]

After all, if KotOR II changed the story of Revan a bit to make it fit to their storyline, what's stopping the Devs of KotOR III from "tweaking" what happened in KotOR II.

 

Did they change Revan's story? I thought they just added some bits in.

[The Great Phantom]

They sorta skipped the whole deal w/ the Rakata, but I brushed that one off through one of my fanfics, and by looking at Wikipedia... :ph34r:

[Darth Flatus]

What whole deal with the Rakata? He went to their planet and tricked them into getting into the temple and thus gained access to the star forge. Its not really worth a mention. Even though he did it twice - shows how stupid the rakata are!

[phiont]

...and it's not likely going to appear in any patch.

It's highly unlikely that they'd do a content patch, as the said they're happy with the way KotOR II turned-out after the content cutting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In that case... um... it's not likely going to appear in any patch. (...thought I said that. )

 

[FaramirK]

...and it's not likely going to appear in any patch.

It's highly unlikely that they'd do a content patch, as the said they're happy with the way KotOR II turned-out after the content cutting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In that case... um... it's not likely going to appear in any patch. (...thought I said that. )

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, hats of to you, Forna K. Shan. I just finished reading your thread and you have convinced me that at one time, Obsidian had decided that Kriea and Kae were one. It also makes sense that Disciple and Handmaiden would have to be in some way connected with Kae/kreia, because you can only have one or the other in your party, and if it was one or the other one gender would totally miss out on this essential Kriea info.

 

Well done. You have totally resurrected my faith in Obsidian's story-writting ability.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well done.  You have totally resurrected my faith in Obsidian's story-writting ability.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was the one thing there was never any doubt about.

[Christopher]

THE END

[phiont]

Well, hats of to you, Forna K. Shan.  I just finished reading your thread and you have convinced me that at one time, Obsidian had decided that Kriea and Kae were one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another soul is mine.

 

 

Thanks, FaramirK, but I especially have to thank everyone who posted all the interesting challenges to the Kreia/Kae idea. Without them it would have faded away quickly like a cry in the wilderness back on page one.

 

Regarding Obsidian's story writing, it's always tough to release an effective cliffhanger like Empire Strikes Back. However, personally, I think a $50 game lasting 50 hours should be a lot more self contained than a $5 film lasting 2 hours. But that becomes another topic.

 

Throughout TSL, Kreia is constantly revealed as a motherly figure, and I don't mean Mother Teresa. She is rather like a female Saturn, from Roman mythology, who was perhaps better known for his kids - Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto. Saturn devoured all his other children and was ultimately slain by Jupiter. To be Kreia's child meant to obey or be broken if you were not powerful enough to destroy her. From when she first rose in the Peragus morgue, to her domination over the resurrected Hanharr, to the floating lightsabres, it all reminded me so much of deeds out of classic Roman or Greek mythology.

 

The Kreia/Kae connection only further extended her matriarchy deep into the past. She never wanted to be the greatest. Instead, she wanted to be the mother of the greatest. And, let's face it, a Jedi would have to have incredibly powerful maternal instincts to risk exile for the sake of bearing her own child.

[Laozi]

I knew this was really about souls, and impressing your beliefs upon reality.

[Darth Flatus]

Wait a minute, isn't FaramirK one of those peoples that hasn't actaully played the game yet?

[FaramirK]

Wait a minute, isn't FaramirK one of those peoples that hasn't actaully played the game yet? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yup! Wierd isn't it? I already know the entire story, and all the cut content! I'm just waiting to buy after the patch. I'll still have a blast with it. So far I've only played part of it (On a friends XBox).

 

Whether I am unique or insane is up to you.

[Darth Flatus]

What is weird is that you have accepted someone else's interpretation of the game without having played it and seen the "evidence" for yourself.

 

As you can tell i am not at all convinced by the arguments put forward by the creator of this thread.

 

but it doesn't matter - each to his/her own

[FaramirK]

What is weird is that you have accepted someone else's interpretation of the game without having played it and seen the "evidence" for yourself.

 

As you can tell i am not at all convinced by the arguments put forward by the creator of this thread.

 

but it doesn't matter - each to his/her own

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes to the last part of your post, no to the first. I have seen the evidence, in the form of quotes on this forum and partly through playing the game, and in the form of the cut content files. I suppose that Forna could be totally misquoting the game, but I have come across some of the lines he quotes, and others would have posted long ago, saying "Hey Forna! You sure are full of crap."

 

Besides, every story has unoriginal elements copied from earlier texts - except your holy scripture of choice, of course "

 

The fact that there has already been a "I am your parent" moment in Starwars makes it seem more likely that Obsidian might have at one time contemplated a storyline like that.

[phiont]

What is weird is that you have accepted someone else's interpretation of the game without having played it and seen the "evidence" for yourself.

I wouldn't exactly call this Kreia/Kae idea an "interpretation of the game."

Most agree that, even if it was formerly written into the storyline, it is no longer a feature of the game.

 

Furthermore, I probably haven't seen most of the evidence either because much of it only appears while playing DS or in conversations that require more influence with Kreia than I ever had. It's all in the dialog.tlk file.

 

As you can tell i am not at all convinced by the arguments put forward by the creator of this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Darth Flatus, have you posted anywhere else in this thread besides on this page? I was hoping to read some of your counterarguments. If you haven't posted any then which counterarguments posted by others do you consider the most convincing?

[Jedi Master D Murda]

What is weird is that you have accepted someone else's interpretation of the game without having played it and seen the "evidence" for yourself.

 

As you can tell i am not at all convinced by the arguments put forward by the creator of this thread.

 

but it doesn't matter - each to his/her own

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. I've posted my arguments as to why this Kreia/Kae connection can not be true. From what I can gather from the game there is no connection.

[Jediphile]

In the end, I suppose this topic has to remain inconclusive.

 

Not because there haven't been excellent either way, but it seems that while there is no clear proof - no "smoking gun" - to establish that Kreia is indeed Arren Kae, there is still a lot of clues that infers it is so.

 

I have this odd idea that maybe Obsidian don't even know the answer themselves. Maybe it was indeed considered at one point that Kreia might be Kae, but there was uncertainty as to whether it would be a good idea or not (too much like the Luke-Vader thing), and so the idea ceased being developed, though the clues to suggest it remain.

 

I find that actually fits the game - or just Kreia's character - extremely well. After all, what is Kreia if not secretive and mysterious? You could call her a liar (which she frequently is), but there is no doubt she knows more than she admits. Trouble is that when she does tell you something, you still can't take her word for it.

 

She really reminds me of Garak on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, who was also a very secretive and insidious character claiming to be nothing but a simple Cardassian tailor (or as he put it, "Plain, simple Garak"...). It was a lot of fun to watch his manipulations over the years, not least because he never truly lied - there was always just some element of truth to his comments. Like when his "friend" Dr. Bashir has discovered lots of stories about him and wants to know the truth...

 

Bashir: "I want to know, of all the stories you told me, which ones were true, and which ones weren't?"

Garak: "My dear doctor, they're all true."

Bashir: "Even the lies?"

Garak: "Especially the lies!"

 

Sorry, don't mean to turn this into a Star Trek-thing, but isn't that exactly the sort of character Kreia is? Well, she is a little less playful and a lot more nefarious about it, but otherwise she seemed very similar to me, although she didn't get any lines nearly as good as Garak's. I was really waiting for something along the lines of Garak's statement that, "I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences!" or my favorite: "The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination..." :D

 

For Kreia it seems obvious that mystery and deception were key words. She was ultimately a manipulator and a traitor, but naturally that couldn't be revealed until the very end, and even then we aren't allowed to know all her secrets.

 

Maybe Obsidian just decided that leaving the Kreia=Kae question open would really fit well with Kreia's deceptiveness. I tend to agree with them. I mean, just look at what it has spawned here.... :D

 

I almost hope we never get a clear answer either way.

 

Almost...

[FaramirK]

I almost hope we never get a clear answer either way.

 

Almost...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What would we argue about if we did get a clear answer?

[Jediphile]

I almost hope we never get a clear answer either way.

 

Almost...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What would we argue about if we did get a clear answer?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah exactly...

 

Besides, we all know that Arren Kae wasn't revived as Kreia but as Darth Nihilus...

[The Great Phantom]

Kreia tells what she wants others to hear. She did this about Revan. She did it to the Exile. She did it to the Jedi. She did it to the Sith. She probably did it to Naga Sadow, too...

 

There is no conclusive evidence. That's the point many of us have been trying to make. However, many things point to the fact that Kreia, in some manner, knew Arren. The extent of that 'knowledge' could be anything (except hopefully on a Juhani level...). We'll just have to let our imaginations (and fanfics) run wild on this one.

 

In the beginning, I was sickened thinking about Brianna and Kreia being related, but now I could see it as a REMOTE POSSIBILITY, like everything else we 'know' about the game.

[The Sodomist]

Kreia is Arren Kae. Playing as a male character, Disciple will tell you that Revan's master was Arren Kae and that Arren Kae was the person Revan turned to in order to learn how best to leave the Jedi order. As Kreia was also Revan's master and also the person that Revan then they must in fact be the same person. Kreia is the handmaiden's mother.

[Palmtree]

Kreia is Arren Kae. Playing as a male character, Disciple will tell you that Revan's master was Arren Kae and that Arren Kae was the person Revan turned to in order to learn how best to leave the Jedi order. As Kreia was also Revan's master and also the person that Revan then they must in fact be the same person. Kreia is the handmaiden's mother.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's impossible to get Disciple to join you if you are a male character, so I don't know where you got that idea from. Unless you've mixed him up with a different character...

[The Sodomist]

Kreia is Arren Kae. Playing as a male character, Disciple will tell you that Revan's master was Arren Kae and that Arren Kae was the person Revan turned to in order to learn how best to leave the Jedi order. As Kreia was also Revan's master and also the person that Revan then they must in fact be the same person. Kreia is the handmaiden's mother.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's impossible to get Disciple to join you if you are a male character, so I don't know where you got that idea from. Unless you've mixed him up with a different character...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I have not got them mixed up. Disciple still appears in the Jedi Enclave if you are male. HAVE YOU GOT THAT? Yes. And he says that Arren Kae was the Jedi Master who helped Revan leave the order once Revan had completed his/her training...

[The Great Phantom]

Another resurrected thread best left dead... :ph34r:

[Baley]

:ph34r: It seems there's a necromancer among us

[Palmtree]

No, I have not got them mixed up. Disciple still appears in the Jedi Enclave if you are male. HAVE YOU GOT THAT? Yes. And he says that Arren Kae was the Jedi Master who helped Revan leave the order once Revan had completed his/her training...

 

I don't ever remember hearing that line. I thought that Disciple simply said that he had heard that Revan returned to his first master to learn how to leave the Order. I don't remember him mentioning Arren Kae.