Star Wars Database

[darth buch]

Also I forgot to whine about something else - I won't accept KOTOR2 as ever being canon unless someone tells me why Kreia and Mira don't have last names. Damn, that's just lazy.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Not until they will return back cut content.

[Ulicus]

No, they shouldn't put K2 over in the databank, imo.  K2 was too unfinished and there were too many plot-holes and the fate of the characters was too vague and glossed over for the sake of completion.

 

And if you thought canonizing Revan was tough, try canonizing the Exile.  A character with not only no official gender, no official alignment, and no official look, but also no official name.

 

How would they even begin to explain all of that and also try to somehow streamline all the possible outcomes of his or her fate.

 

Plus, let's face it.  K2 was not in the Star Wars tradition.  I liked the game but, it just didn't feel like Star Wars. 

I don't think that powers that be over at Lucasfilm (even though I understand that they approved everything we saw in K2) would want to include Mira, Atton, Handmaiden, Disciple, Bao-Dur, etc. in their database because of the way OE wrote those characters.

 

They were all Force Sensitives with the ability to become double-bladed lightsaber weilding badasses through the course of one conversation.  That's just not Star Wars.  Becoming a Jedi is supposed to be the most difficult thing that someone can aspire to be.  And then only a select few are chosen at childbirth to be raised in the Jedi ways from infancy.

 

And all of you out there saying, "Well, what about Luke Skywalker?  He only trained for a few weeks before going to confront Vader???"  People, Luke Skywalker was, for all intents and purposes, the son of the Sith'ari.  It has been stressed time and time again how UNUSUAL AND ABNORMAL it was for Luke to be trained as an adult.  And the only reason he was successful was because of the stupifyingly powerful connection to the Force that he had, which he inherited from his father, THE DARK LORD OF THE SITH.  There is no comparison whatsoever on that front.

 

So, unless you're telling me that Atton, Mira, etc. are all descended from some ancient Dark Lord or some powerful old Jedi Master or something,  then I don't really jive with the fact that they can all be converted.

 

The only way this could have worked, IMO, was if the story was ABOUT these Force Sensitives.  For example, if Kreia's goal all along had nothing to do with destroying the Force, but had everything to do with hunting down and finding these Adepts because they were all the progeny of some ancient Dark Lord.  Kinda like what I said above.

 

In this way it would be similar to the BG games where, just as in that series the focus is the progeny of the God of Murder, in K2 it would have been about the progeny of some uber-badass from a long time ago.  Which meant that the next chosen Dark Lord was most likely one of your apprentices.  And they are all drawn to you because of your wound and your ability to draw people to you.

 

This would pretty much re-write the entire story as it would really have nothing to do with the first game and whether the Jedi were there or in hiding wouldn't be the main focus of the story.  As it stands right now, Traya does tell you that your companions are the true lost Jedi, but that wasn't the main focus of the story.

  If it was then I would say K2 would've had a good chance to be canonized.

 

But in it's current form?  No.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with what you said about the whole "you train them to become Jedi way too easily"

 

One thing though-

 

The Sith'Ari prophesy is not the Balance of the Force prophesy.

 

Darth Vader does *not* fulfill the critera needed to be the Sith'Ari (two of the things he *does* fulfill happen in the wrong Order - the Sith'Ari makes the Sith stronger *THROUGH* destroying them, as opposed to making them stronger then destroying them) - finally, he never truly led the Sith.

 

If anything it was a reference to Darth Bane - though now I think it'll be changed to be some influential thing in KotOR 3. Probably involving Revan/and or the Exile (in fact, the Exile is essentially the Sith Code in human form: I mean, "through victory my chains are broken'"? "The Force will free me"?

 

The similarities between the process of the Sith Code's passion>>>freedom and the Exile's condition are way too strong for it not to be relevant.

 

Also, I'd say that Luke's "stupidly strong connection to the Force" came more from the fact that the Force was his "granddad" as opposed to Vader's nature as Dark Lord of the Sith - but that's just me picking you up on semantics, I knew what you meant.

 

Finally in response to the actual topic-

 

I don't see why it shouldn't be included in the database. After all, as has been mentioned - the EU is not canon, only the movies are canon and even they contradict each other from PT to OT.

 

KotOR 2 is already official- it's a Lucasarts game remember.

 

And last of all- for the oft-mentioned "canonical ls male Revan ending". This isn't the case. The database says the Star Forge was destroyed but then, in the "behind the scenes" admits:

 

"Though the branching nature of KotOR's storyline allows the dark side to prevail and the Star Forge to remain intact, Star Wars continuity dictates that one way or another the Star Forge was destroyed."

 

If that isn't saying, "make you own mind up" I don't know what is. Besides, you have to remember that in Bastila's entry it gets to the point where it says:

 

"Bastila tried to tempt Revan over to the dark side - and the results of this confrontation would decide the fate of hte galaxy".

 

Not "Bastila tried to tempt Revan over to the dark side again and he said no."

 

So really, I think it's more accurate to say that the *preferred* ending is LS male, as opposed to the "official" ending.

 

After all... *why* go through all the pain of having the "choose Revan's decisions and gender in KotOR 2" if it was "offical that Revan was ls male"? They would have just said, "official ending: Revan ls male - think of your other playthroughs as AU".

 

Oh and one lassssst thing (I've had "finally" "last of all" and now another "last"? Man I'm getting sloppy). The databanks aren't even accurate. I mean, Malak clearly *wasn't* a Jedi trained on Dantooine, nor was he "unleashed by his Jedi Masters to fight in the Mandalorian wars". That came straight from the official KotOR site - but going from everything in the game, it's wrong.

 

Ok, done now.

[Revan Si-Darlo]

All EU is considered cannon and is taken with great lengths to be that way and to not contradict the known universe of the movies and other cannon. Look at how carefully for example that KOTOR and TSL draw on other EU sources (mostly Tales of the Jedi) and on the movies.

 

Star Trek books and games on the other hand take no effort to maintain continuity and are essentially fan fiction with a license from Paramount.

[JediExile]

I don't like how they add everything they can get their hands on. GL will do whatever he wants though as it's his universe as he showed when he added new scenes to the OT. He will add whatever he wants to the databank as well weather it makes sense to us or not.

[The Great Phantom]

"The Force will set me free." is a Sith lie. It is one of their many temptations, since most people in that era only join the Sith after screwing up with the Jedi. IMO, it sounds too much like the 70's...

[SW fan]

(cough) CRAZY (cough)

[The Great Phantom]

The Sith say that giving in makes them free, but it enslaves them. Once again, I find myself thinking of the 70's... Not that I was around in that decade, though...

 

They give in to the DARK emotions, choosing to exclude the healthy. This would twist anybody into the slave of something...

[Darth Nihilius]

I think they mean like not bound to jedi teachings and the code because they can do whatever they want and do as they feel like it.

[The Great Phantom]

Not true. That is just a Dark Jedi. The Sith have discipline, or else they would not have a Code. If they show ANY positive emotions (mercy, forgiveness, compassion), then their lives within the Sith are forfeit.