Continuity kills KOTOR

[Cerebus]

Continuity isn't a real issue, they should just do whatever and let whiners whine because that whats they do best

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, thanks for that rare gem of insight, kid.

They should do 'whatever'... a valuable suggestion indeed.

It is apparent that you really put your mind to the issue here, which I find absolutely super, given the fact that I had been thinking about asking for your opinion anyway. )

 

You know what I especially liked about your post? That it was so incredibly rich, content-wise. So "continuity isn't a real issue"? If only I knew which of the stunning arguments you offered to reinforce your thesis convinced me the most... hmmm, I just can't decide. That's probably because they are all so very, very brilliant.

 

I really hope that we can count on your continued counsel in the future, and wish you luck with your coherent speech courses. You are making remarkable progress, by the way, and are a credit to your behaviour therapist

[The Great Phantom]

And he was so 'to the point!'

 

Sorry, I couldn't help but join in the fun... :ph34r:

[The Great Phantom]

Or, an alternate, more resolving ending for the DS Revan/Exile:

 

As they bask in their power, Mission Vao (or some equally ironic character) sneaks right past them, into the main reactor of their Flagship, the Impenetrable (or some equally ironic name), sets an explosive core, and blows the whole fleet to oblivion, allowing people to look forward to Episode 1: The Phantom Menace *Special Edition* in peace.

[jim[beam]]

The ability to import the character u made to KOTOR 2/ 3 would have been an awesome asset. Unfortunately we have to start from scratch with it.

 

-jim

[Zilod]

don't touch Mission

 

here the DE ends and the true Mission story...

 

Mission was left as dead on the unknow world, big Z had not the heart to vibrate the final blow and, to try to save her, he "incapped" the poor Twi'lek hoping for Carth to return (that fearless guy) to help her...

 

the Twi'lek is badly wounded and very near the death when Revan's ship leave the planet, but is not Carth that find her but the Rakatans...

They use their technology to heal her and soon they discover that she is indeed very powerfull in the force, they teach her all their ancient secrets and their lost technology and how to penetrate in the starforge temple...

 

Now it happens that Revan leave the galaxy and the siths are no more able to control the starforge, Mission decides to take the action, with a group of Rakatan warriors she attack the ancient factory and capture it from the siths, that will never be able to use it anymore.

 

 

In meantime the Exile find Revan and they decide not to destroy the real siths but to become their leaders, they come back in the republic space with all the sith armada and engage the republic fleet lead by adm Carth... The battle is terrible and seem that there is no hope against such a powerfull fleet, but when all seem lost a powerful Rakatan fleet jump out of hyperspace engaging the siths fleet...

 

A ship of unknow design board with the sith flagship and groups of elite Rakatan warriors fight against the enemy soldier to reach the bridge where Revan and the Exile are leading the battle... a young twi'lek girl approach the two lord and an epic fight begin...

 

Strong is Revan, the earth of the force, and the Exile a hole that draw the life from the life itself, but ther's nothing they can do against the primeval(?) power of the blue twi'lek, her ancient rakatan sword seem unsopable and soon the two sith lords are dead at her feet...

 

The invasors are destroyed, the republic saved and can start to rebuild from its ruins, the rakatan have fought bravelly and finally they have been forgiven for their terrible past.... and the blue twi'lek have avenged her big furry friend that betrayed his life oath to save her.

 

this is the true story of Mission, the rakatan princess, and how she saved the galaxy from the true sith menace.

 

 

eheh sorry but was not able to resist

[The Great Phantom]

Wow... the behind the scenes of Kotor.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Mission was the only character I liked. Bastila was too english lady for my tastes , although the Americans seem to have a thing for it when you can count your english "lady" ex girlfriends in double figures it's kinda old.

[The Great Phantom]

I don't have an English ex... I feel left out...

 

The Bastila voice was kinda hot... BUT, she's just an image... and not even of a real human.

 

I just like the simplicity, the actual FEELING that you can get from her romance. I only felt something remotely like that w/ Visas, but it was not as 'romantic.'

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I don't have an English ex... I feel left out...

 

The Bastila voice was kinda hot... BUT, she's just an image... and not even of a real human.

 

I just like the simplicity, the actual FEELING that you can get from her romance. I only felt something remotely like that w/ Visas, but it was not as 'romantic.'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I ended up with a Japenese wife

 

I'm not really that into game romances. KOTOR II's I thought were more subtle although since I only played KOTOR I once as a male LS not much to compare from really.

[The Great Phantom]

I just like game romances because they add an extra layer of realisticity. People like me play RPG's because they don't have a life of their own. Just kidding, I think... :ph34r:

[Taran'atar]

I think that they should have put this message before Atton's q's:

 

<<Attention Players! Many of you will skip over this part thinking that it holds no relevance to the game. The following options will determine what Revan is/did. Don't ignore them and complain about the game later!>>

 

That would have sorted a lot out, I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pandering to the stupid, huh? It's sad that this seems to be needed.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The only way I think you couldnt realise what that was for was if you didnt play KOTOR. Then of course it's not relevent anyway.

[The Great Phantom]

Really... I'm getting a wee bit tired of someone complaining bout something, when all they have to do is pay attention to what they're doing in the first place... Oh, well.

[Taran'atar]

The only way I think you couldnt realise what that was for was if you didnt play KOTOR. Then of course it's not relevent anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You'd think so, wouldn't you? From looking around this forum, and the ones at KOTOR2.com, it seems that's not the case.

[The Great Phantom]

My point exactly. "I killed Carth, and there he is with Bastila!" etc.

[Stargate: 2000]

Don't get me wrong I liked both KOTOR and TSL but I think that they should just leave well enough alone. We know that as a LS jedi the exile went off to find revan and as a DS jedi he stayed to rule the galaxy and Revan went off to battle the 'True' Sith regaurdless of how you chose in the first game. I think they should just say ok thats the end of their stories as far as playable characters and now they will go down in history as great/evil jedi, nows the time to move on and start fresh with another new jedi (one who perhaps is new to the order) giving us the chance to guide them from normal to jedi master/ sith lord through out the course of the game.

 

I think that a century is a little drastic. They could do it with a decade or two, and still be able to get some wrapping up done, don't you think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think 100 years is too drastic mainly because if its too close to the time of TSL people will complain that its not taking place at the end of TSL. THe closure your talking of could still happen 100 years later perhaps by learning of their exploits during your training, or while talking to various long living jedi (not sure how many can live over 100 years). Plus it would completely remove the PC from any of the problems that either Revan or the Exile caused during those two game (i.e. the sith winning) because 100 years should be more than enough time for the jedi/ sith order to rebuild.

 

to put the story 100 years after TSL is no more possible, it will be like to have ROTJ after the emperor died from age, at this point will completely ruin the story.

to find the mummies of Revan and Exile will be very ehm sad and will make the first 2 games pointless.

 

Due to the end of TSL i hope we will start KOTOR3 with the Exile on the Ebon Hawk that begin to search for Revan, and there that gaming problems can start.

 

I don't think the beginning with LS/DS Revan/Exile will be a problem as probably both char where "normalized" to a sort of neutral force users, so in this "sector" the development of the story should be quite linear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure if I understand what you mean by it being no longer possible to set the game 100+ years after TSL, I mean sure for those who are looking for the perfect ending to TSL it would suck as it would look like LA (I say LA because we don't know for sure that OE is doing KOTOR III which means that if they aren't then more than likely we see much of revan or the exile since they are other peoples characters and no one likes to work with someone elses character when it comes to a role playing game) )has given up on the exile and Revan. But the thing is that how could you possibly tell the story any further than it already has without making it into a muddled mess? If you continue then you will have to bring back revan which isn't OEs character to begin with thus meaning that they would more than likely have to decide for us what revan was (either LS or DS and either Male or Female) which would piss off a lot of people (more than if he wasn't in the game to begin with) and then if OE doesn't do KOTOR III then we have a new developer working with not one but two character that other people have created meaning that it would just make the game that much worse since now we wouldn't have any control over what either character looked like or what their alignment was or what their actions where during their respective games. It would just be easier to start fresh and tell their stories either via flashbacks or via conversations in the game. As to your coment about the story being non linear that kinda ruins the whole point of an RPG doesn't it?

[Taran'atar]

To address the original topic of this thread: To me, suggesting that you get rid of continuity is just like suggesting that we get rid of plot and characters. If you're going to make a sequel, make a sequel. Pick up on the characters and tell a continuation of their story. Otherwise don't pretend the new product is related to the last one.

 

If I were the one making KOTOR 2, I'd have put the player back in the shoes of their character from the last game. The dialogue choices would determine what happened in the last game and what old characters appear (much like in the actual KOTOR 2). The NPC party members would be a combination of new and old characters, and I'd simply ignore the complaints about why the characters are level 1 again, as if the level system had anything to do with the storyline.

 

As it stands, I think KOTOR 2 is an acceptable compromise in this regard. It has enough returns and cameos to be a true sequel with enough new material to stand on it's own.

[darth spock]

To comment on the main topic, I'm going to disagree. Not continuing stories would leave lots of fans (inculding myself) scratching our heads, wondering what happened to the "gang" and all.

 

I'm not asking for K3 to be a total-past-character centric game. I just want something that at least tells us a little about what happened after the games to the party members other than "They died on (insert random planet here) doing (insert noble/evil deed here, depending if they're DS/LS) or because they were (insert reason for being on planet here)." I like closure on stories, but not to the max.

 

Maybe giving closure in the other two games would've solved this problem instead of just a cutscene of the Ebon Hawk flying by in K2 and you either reuniting the Sith/accepting some lame medals in K1. How stupid! They should've given a somewhat hint of closure or at least told you what happened to the characters. Maybe that would've solved this problem. I always welcome returning characters, becuase it brings back some of the good memories when I was playing through the games for the first time but... heh, I don't need a biography on K1 characters in K3.

[Stargate: 2000]

To address the original topic of this thread:  To me, suggesting that you get rid of continuity is just like suggesting that we get rid of plot and characters.  If you're going to make a sequel, make a sequel.  Pick up on the characters and tell a continuation of their story.  Otherwise don't pretend the new product is related to the last one.

 

If I were the one making KOTOR 2, I'd have put the player back in the shoes of their character from the last game.  The dialogue choices would determine what happened in the last game and what old characters appear (much like in the actual KOTOR 2).  The NPC party members would be a combination of new and old characters, and I'd simply ignore the complaints about why the characters are level 1 again, as if the level system had anything to do with the storyline.

 

As it stands, I think KOTOR 2 is an acceptable compromise in this regard.  It has enough returns and cameos to be a true sequel with enough new material to stand on it's own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(While I hate this series) look at final fantasy every game has a new set of characters (and the first two had the same characters carried over) and it has become the longest/besat selling RPG series in history so obviously this can work and has worked in the past and of course having the starwars title will always sell the game regaurdless of how its made (look at galaxies). I agree that it would be nice to continue the stories of Revan and the Exile but is it really a must in order to have a great game? NO. Is it needed in order to fit into the series? NO (because you can find out what happened to them without having them in the game at all). So then the question becomes why does everyone seem to want them in the game? well because thus far they are the only characters they have known. Because of the way TSL ended. and because of the fact that OE sugested that revan had a greater mission than destroying the star forge. All of which are good ideas and good reasons as to why they could be in the game, but they are not reasons why they should be in the game. Would it be a let down if Revan and the exile weren't in KOTOR III sure but would it be a bad decision? NO! because as I have said it would open them upto other parts of the starwars universe and thus more possible plot lines other than just focusing on two characters (which should go without saying but I will anyway, it would limit how diverse the game-play would be the story would more or less have to be very linear to tell that story to an end and that would mean the third game wouldn't be an RPG...wouldn't it?)

[jaguars4ever]

You cant have a male/female ls/ds maybe and expect to write a good story.

It's not easy Shadow, but it is possible.

[Taran'atar]

I agree that it would be nice to continue the stories of Revan and the Exile but is it really a must in order to have a great game? NO.

 

In order for it to be a great game, no. In order for it to be a true sequel to KOTOR, yes.

 

If they make another Star Wars RPG with a similar gameplay and storytelling style to KOTOR but completely independant of that series, and made no mention of Revan or the Exile, that would be fine by me, but if they're going to bill it as a sequel to KOTOR, it should actually be a sequel.

 

Is it needed in order to fit into the series?

 

Yes. If the events or characters of the previous game(s) don't at the very least influence the story or characters of the new one in a meaningful way, it's not a sequel.

 

It's fine if they introduce a new player character, new party characters and new storylines, but if it's going to be a true sequel, there needs to be a strong tie-in to the other games in the series.

 

because as I have said it would open them upto other parts of the starwars universe and thus more possible plot lines other than just focusing on two characters

 

Last I checked, there were around twenty main characters in the KOTOR series. There are two that happen to be at the center of the casts, but they haven't been focusing on just those two.

[Cerebus]

To address the original topic of this thread:  To me, suggesting that you get rid of continuity is just like suggesting that we get rid of plot and characters.

I somehow fail to see the logic of your argument. I'm quite sure that it is possible to start a new storyline without setting fire to the achievements of literary tradition. Perhaps you confuse "plot" and "characters" with "one specific plot" and "one specific set of characters"?

If you're going to make a sequel, make a sequel.  Pick up on the characters and tell a continuation of their story.  Otherwise don't pretend the new product is related to the last one.

So let me get this straight: The only way for two products to be related to another is by using a shared set of characters?

I think I will pass commenting on this one.

If I were the one making KOTOR 2, I'd have put the player back in the shoes of their character from the last game.

For some reason I get the impression that you have not paid any attention to the discussion. Also, I would assume that you have no experience with plot construction whatsoever. Do you know what an incredible amount of work it would be to provide a KOTOR2 that lets you play Revan - any possible Revan- again? Just think about it.

Apart from that: At some point, the whole "establishing what happened by dialogue" thing gets ridiculous.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

(While I hate this series) look at final fantasy every game has a new set of characters (and the first two had the same characters carried over) and it has become the longest/besat selling RPG series in history so obviously this can work and has worked in the past and of course having the starwars title will always sell the game regaurdless of how its made (look at galaxies). I agree that it would be nice to continue the stories of Revan and the Exile but is it really a must in order to have a great game? NO. Is it needed in order to fit into the series? NO (because you can find out what happened to them without having them in the game at all). So then the question becomes why does everyone seem to want them in the game? well because thus far they are the only characters they have known. Because of the way TSL ended. and because of the fact that OE sugested that revan had a greater mission than destroying the star forge. All of which are good ideas and good reasons as to why they could be in the game, but they are not reasons why they should be in the game. Would it be a let down  if Revan and the exile weren't in KOTOR III sure but would it be a bad decision? NO! because as I have said it would open them upto other parts of the starwars universe and thus more possible plot lines other than just focusing on two characters (which should go without saying but I will anyway, it would limit how diverse the game-play would be the story would more or less have to be very linear to tell that story to an end and that would mean the third game wouldn't be an RPG...wouldn't it?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

FF I & II were in no way related.

 

FF has always been a franchise not a sequel. The only FF sequel has been FFX-2 because they couldnt tell the whole story in one game.

 

Locking yourself into the same characters (FF dosnt even use the same world) is a sure way to a short term franchise. The reason that FF can grow is because sqenix dont tie themselves down to a specific character to continue the franchise.

 

FFX X-2 was set in Spira, the new one is set in Ivalice (the place from FFTA).

[Cerebus]

If they make another Star Wars RPG with a similar gameplay and storytelling style to KOTOR but completely independant of that series, and made no mention of Revan or the Exile, that would be fine by me, but if they're going to bill it as a sequel to KOTOR, it should actually be a sequel.

I do not appreciate them calling it a sequel any more than them making it one.

 

But they could still call it KOTOR 2. For KOTOR - as I am sure you know -means "Knights of the Old Republic". It does not mean "Knitting Ongoing Tales Of Revan".

If they presented a story about some other Knights of the old Republic than those we already met, not even refering to the exploits of the latter, the title KOTOR 2 would still be justified.

 

Not that I find it particularly important what they call the new game: They could name it "Jedi adventures" for all I care. But when it uses the same engine, the same rules or the same atmosphere, it is not only valid to call it KOTOR, thereby helping players in their decision to buy it or not depending on their opinion on the first game, it is also clever from a marketing point-of-view.

[Cerebus]

FF has always been a franchise not a sequel.

Thanks, ShadowPaladin. I was looking for a word that meant "sequel" without meaning "sequel" ... errm, you know what I mean.

So, I would be perfectly happy with KOTOR being a franchise.

 

Locking yourself into the same characters (FF dosnt even use the same world) is a sure way to a short term franchise. The reason that FF can grow is because sqenix dont tie themselves down to a specific character to continue the franchise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And KOTOR would profit from that as well.