Fully integrated rulesystems

[Kaftan Barlast]

Would you like it if you removed the technical control rulesystem from the player entirely and instead had a very complex system that depended entirely on the actions of the player? I dont mean just "hack stuff and get stronger automaticly" but that the game would build the character after how you solved problems, talked to people -just about any action imaginable would influence how your characters was built?

[J.E. Sawyer]

Enter a time machine and return to 1992. Play Darklands. Wait, return to 1993. Install patches. Play Darklands.

[NeverwinterKnight]

Enter a time machine and return to 1992.  Play Darklands.  Wait, return to 1993.  Install patches.  Play Darklands.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

one of your games?

[kirottu]

Kaftan, I think it has been already made. It

[Kaftan Barlast]

Enter a time machine and return to 1992.  Play Darklands.  Wait, return to 1993.  Install patches.  Play Darklands.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

"been there, done that, didnt work." ?

 

 

 

Commercially, it probably isnt such a grand idea because it will put off the gigantic mass of tactical players powergamers. On the other hand it would put the focus entirely on the story and roleplaying which could be a huge opportunity to cash in on the casual the sims fans players.

[zer"0"]

I like creating my character before I venture into the wasteland.

That is part of the charm of cRPGs to me.

 

Torment has a lot of that integrated character advancement in it though.

Many dialogues, actions etc. had effects on your char, even certain

quests' outcome had some altering. e.g: The way your alignment changed etc.

In Fallout some actions led to change of skills. Like watching the brotherhood knights training, your unarmed and melee fighting improved.

 

But total integrated character creation? If anyone can create such a system and make it transparent to the player. I say go for it.

 

The main thing for me roleplaying a character is that there is a challenge, as well as events/actions that make my character feel unique.

Thus changing my style of character and play has different challenge and

unique actions/consequences.

One of the ways developers have of doing this, is by using pre-generated character systems like D&D and SPECIAL.

 

Morrowind was an effort in that direction (gameplay based character) and also a very unbalanced game.

 

Still if anyone can do it and its fun... it sounds interesting. Why not?

[Kaftan Barlast]

I think it would bring the original idea of character building closer to what it was meant to be- creating a role, not defining a number of stats.

 

 

Even though I think Ive played Darklands or something similar, this idea really came to be when we in our PnP group started thinking about what roleplaying really means. The rules are just supposed to be a tool, but they often come to rule the game itself. It ceases to be roleplaying and becomes strategy.

 

To alot of people it matters more that they have succeeded in bending the rules to create a character whose uniqueness lies in being to cast Lvl 78 incontinence spells while also having access to eunuck stealth attack, rather than having an interesting concept and good backstory. This kind of system might stand a chance at turning RPGs back to roleplaying.

 

 

But then again, powergaming is perhaps imbedded in human nature. Just look at the huge waste of potential that MMORPGs turned out to be. There people really have the chance to immerse themselves deeper than ever in the roleplaying experience, but what did the majority do? Engage in a pointless contest of who can grind the most exp or whore the exploits so they can be the baddest fish in the pond.

 

oh, the humanity...

[Squidget]

Even though I think Ive played Darklands or something similar, this idea really came to be when we in our PnP group started thinking about what roleplaying really means. The rules are just supposed to be a tool, but they often come to rule the game itself. It ceases to be roleplaying and becomes strategy.

 

To alot of people it matters more that they have succeeded in bending the rules to create a character whose uniqueness lies in being to cast Lvl 78 incontinence spells while also having access to eunuck stealth attack, rather than having an interesting concept and good backstory. This kind of system might stand a chance at turning RPGs back to roleplaying.

 

So how 'bout that 'roleplaying' in FPS games? They don't have a stat system like RPGs, yet they're consistently filled with strategy and 'power' gamers far more than they are roleplayers.

 

The simple fact is that you can't force people to roleplay in a single player RPG. You can give them the opportunity to roleplay, and you can give them the best game experience possible, but removing the rules no more encourages roleplaying than it particularly inhibits powergaming. The only reason traditional powergamers would come up with a backstory would be if it gave them more power, and even if you went to the insane degree of some kind of text parser to test for a backstory they'd still find the string of numbers and letters that gave them the highest possible XP bonus, whether or not it made a coherent backstory.

 

As for the idea itself...I see two things it could mean.

 

One is disconnecting character development from the player's control entirely and tying it instead to predefined story events. You only learn the Jumping Monkey style after you talk to Master Kwan in the city of Bob, and however much you jump like a monkey before or after you learn the style will not change your character's skills in the style. This is basically like a goal-based system where character development is chosen for you (or at least, chosen through roleplaying and what skills your character chooses to pursue in the game world), and I think it could work well.

 

One is basically a fuzzified for a Learn by Doing system. If your character spends more time jumping like a monkey the game will eventually grant him Jumping Monkey style, whereas if he spends his time picking locks he'll eventually gain Superior Lockpicking. I don't like this approach very much. Once a player figures out which skill increases what (and if the developers are shooting for realism this should be pretty simple), it becomes like any other LbD system. As I think that Learn by Doing systems are the eternal bane of story-based CPGs, I would likely not be interested in a game that used a system like this.

 

So which did you mean?

[J.E. Sawyer]

"been there, done that, didnt work." ?

What didn't work?

[Shadowstrider]

My entire system revolves around the theory of "practice makes perfect." There are no "level ups" precisely, but in a way there is.

[Kaftan Barlast]

"been there, done that, didnt work." ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What didn't work?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I interpreted your answer as what I was suggesting has been tried before and without success.

[kirottu]

"been there, done that, didnt work." ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What didn't work?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I interpreted your answer as what I was suggesting has been tried before and without success.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Um, Darklands is actually pretty good game and it

[pulp]

Enter a time machine and return to 1992.  Play Darklands.  Wait, return to 1993.  Install patches.  Play Darklands.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh feck, now *this game* should be updated, it'll be worth it.

[pulp]

Um, Darklands is actually pretty good game and it

[Gryphcon]

Even though I think Ive played Darklands or something similar, this idea really came to be when we in our PnP group started thinking about what roleplaying really means. The rules are just supposed to be a tool, but they often come to rule the game itself. It ceases to be roleplaying and becomes strategy.

 

To alot of people it matters more that they have succeeded in bending the rules to create a character whose uniqueness lies in being to cast Lvl 78 incontinence spells while also having access to eunuck stealth attack, rather than having an interesting concept and good backstory. This kind of system might stand a chance at turning RPGs back to roleplaying.

 

So how 'bout that 'roleplaying' in FPS games? They don't have a stat system like RPGs, yet they're consistently filled with strategy and 'power' gamers far more than they are roleplayers.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When you play 'Serious Sam' for example, you are playing the 'role' of Sam by blasting everything as they come at you...I don't see how you can "power-game" in that. You don't really have the choice to 'role-play' or 'power-game'.

[Squidget]

When you play 'Serious Sam' for example, you are playing the 'role' of Sam by blasting everything as they come at you...I don't see how you can "power-game" in that. You don't really have the choice to 'role-play' or 'power-game'.

 

It's kind of a fuzzy distinction because of the inherent roleplaying limitations in a single player game and because most shooters aren't designed to accomodate roleplaying beyond combat, but to phrase it another way...

 

Given a choice between doing what 'makes sense' for their predefined character and doing what will best serve them in getting past obstacles and killing enemies, which do you think most FPS players are going to choose?

 

Playing through Half Life 2, I spent a good portion of my time stacking boxes and messing around with the physics. Did that make 'roleplaying' sense for Gordon Freeman? Probably not, but I'm sure I wasn't the only one doing it and having fun.