Darth Nihilus = The Exile !?

[glasgoo]

I've gone through the game twice, once as darkside, witch left me with nothing but unanswerd questions and once as lightsided, witch made me aware off some strange remarks made by Kreia and the Jedi Council.

 

1. This new 'sith' threat does only exist since you are responsible for it (Malchor V destruction and sofort)

 

2. According to the council you are the cause of a new threat who absorbs the force from all living beings... so you must be killed to end this threat!! This makes you no different from what Darth Nihilus is !?

 

3. SPECULATION , you lose you're connection to the force on Malachor V, though you're forcepowers are not lost and start to live a life of their own as this darksided character Darth Nihilus (Nihil is latin for nothing). This could explain why you were the only jedi that did not turn darkside after the Mandolorian wars, you just casted it away from you physical body. Furthermore, this Darth Nihilus does not have a voice, does not have a face (even when you ask Visas to remove the facemask and ask her what she saw she gives a very cryptic answer, witch could mean there is no face beyond the mask)

 

4. Since most of us now allready know there has been some serious cutting in the end levels (about everything after final meeting on Dantooine) it seems to me that the only way that this Darth Nihilus seems to fit in the story, since now he does not have the smallest part in it, if not to give you some sort of extra battle, is that HE IS YOU and YOU ARE HIM, BOUNDED trough the FORCE.

 

THIS WOULD MAKE THAT THEY CREATE A SURPRISE AS BIG AS IN KOTOR ONE WHERE YOU FIND OUT THAT YOU ARE REVAN !! Sadly enough due to lack of time, Nihilus turend out to be nihil.....

 

Would this not explain why he is central to all promotion they made around the game??? BOXART, POSTERS, WALLPAPERS, etc......

[Aegis]

...even when you ask Visas to remove the facemask and ask her what she saw she gives a very cryptic answer...

 

Actually, she says "A man, nothing more" or something similar (she did for me, at least). That eliminated some theories I had about Nihilus' origin (such as one mentioned on these boards, that he was a ghost of one or more dead from Malachor.

He was also Kreia's apprentice at some point, which wouldn't make much sense if he isn't or at least wasn't a man (Kreia also says that he no longer can be called a man, indicating that he at least once was).

 

However, I think it's safe to assume that the exile's nature and Nihilus' power is connected, somehow. But I don't think they are the same person. The most likely theory I have so far is that he was a jedi at Malachor, who just like the exile, didn't die but lost his connection to the force, creating a void (or as the game puts it, a wound in the force). But unlike the exile, who turned away from the force, Nihilus developed a sort of hunger for the force in an attempt to fill the void. The reason Kreia became his master is perhaps the same as why she became the exile's master, as they both share the fundamental lack of connection to the force, but Kreia realized that Nihilus was not the one she needed.

 

It's just a theory, though, and it has some flaws that I can't quite iron out. The game is not very explicit on Nihilus' power and origin.

[Ashe]

3. SPECULATION , you lose you're connection to the force on Malachor V, though you're forcepowers are not lost and start to live a life of their own as this darksided character Darth Nihilus (Nihil is latin for nothing). This could explain why you were the only jedi that did not turn darkside after the Mandolorian wars, you just casted it away from you physical body. Furthermore, this Darth Nihilus does not have a voice, does not have a face (even when you ask Visas to remove the facemask and ask her what she saw she gives a very cryptic answer, witch could mean there is no face beyond the mask)

 

4. Since most of us now allready know there has been some serious cutting in the end levels (about everything after final meeting on Dantooine) it seems to me that the only way that this Darth Nihilus seems to fit in the story, since now he does not have the smallest part in it, if not to give you some sort of extra battle, is that HE IS YOU and YOU ARE HIM, BOUNDED trough the FORCE.

 

THIS WOULD MAKE THAT THEY CREATE A SURPRISE AS BIG AS IN KOTOR ONE WHERE YOU FIND OUT THAT YOU ARE REVAN !! Sadly enough due to lack of time, Nihilus turend out to be nihil.....

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nihilus as the exiles' dark reflection/echo. Certainly one of the more plausible and popular theories out there, although I should like to know when the scene with Traya, Sion and Nihilus was so I can pin down whether Nihilus was around before malachor (even if only as a normal jedi)

[DarthNihilus]

Nihilus is a "he" as Kreia mentions

He was created at Malachor 5...I assume he was a Jedi since he uses some sort of Force

Visas says "I saw a graveyard" when asked to fetch the mask

 

No he`s not the Exile since the Exile never fell to the Dark Side

[Azr1el]

It makes sense that if you're lightsided, Nihilus is the exile's dark reflection/echo, as previously noted - there's certainly some ying/yang going on there.

 

If you're darksided though, would you just see Nihilus and Sion as Kreia's early experiments gone wrong? Or is there more about these characters?

[Reveilled]

It makes sense that  if you're lightsided, Nihilus is the exile's dark reflection/echo, as previously noted - there's certainly some ying/yang going on there.

 

If you're darksided though, would you just see Nihilus and Sion as Kreia's early experiments gone wrong? Or is there more about these characters?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd see him as more of an embodiment of the force that you threw out of yourself during the deaths at Malachor V. The result is that you have a vacuum where your connection to the force used to be, causing you to leech off the force of force sensitives, while your connection to the force, now embodied in Darth Nihilus, destroys people to get their force to feed on.

 

Consider it like a wood burning stove. You are the stove, and your connection to the force is the fire. When you cut yourself off from the force, you expel the fire. But rather than go out, the fire continues to burn outside of you. So while you have no fire, you gain your warmth from the fires of others. What was your fire, however, burns stronger and stronger, creating a firestorm that consumes all the fuel around it. It destroys everything and everyone completely, and so whether you are ultimately good or evil, Nihilus is evil because he destroys, not because he is your reflection.

[Orchomene]

Exactly. Nihilus is the one you could have become if you did'nt cut the link with the force : a tool used by the force to counter balance the results of Malachor. Like a tsunami : a natural power. It's embodiment is there because the force use minions (jedi and sith) and because it's a common thing in mythology : the use of human being to reflect concepts.

Sion is an other aspect of this.

[Zilod]

Exactly. Nihilus is the one you could have become if you did'nt cut the link with the force : a tool used by the force to counter balance the results of Malachor. Like a tsunami : a natural power. It's embodiment is there because the force use minions (jedi and sith) and because it's a common thing in mythology : the use of human being to reflect concepts.

Sion is an other aspect of this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't agree with the idea that the Exile have become Nihilus if he didn't cut the link with the force.

I'm more inclined to think that we had not a Nihilus if the exile didn't that, probably the Exile had just turned to DS due to the corruption of Malachor, or died to not be able to resist to it.

 

At dantooine enclave Kreia clearly say that was the Exile to create the sith lords,

in particular she tells to the Exile that his gift to to the galaxy was the destruction (referring to Nihilus and the other lords) and that they learnt their power, their techinque, from you.

 

I'm more inclined to think that when the exile cut his bounds and the hole was formed the "essence" of the ones linked with him was drained in some way, and the ones that survived learnt this technique.

 

It could also be that the hole is malachor itself and that he drain the life from the one above it, but there are some things that make this theory more difficult to apply.

 

I found very interesting the vision of Nihilus as a balancing force, i don't think is what he really is, but is also what he is doing... considering that the force shape the destiny of the livings, expecially of one like Nihilus, this vision fit very well.

[Orchomene]

Excuse me, there is some misunderstanding.

 

I didn't meant that the exile would have been Nihilus, he could have become something else, but the fact is, in the SW univers, everybody has to assume the power of the force, that is, to be clearer : the exile destroyed malachor and hence should have become a "sith" or dark jedi in the end of the force.

It's the term of the contract every jedi signs with the force : you use it in some way, you face the consequences.

 

So, the Exile cut the contract, he cut himself to the force : it was the ultimate treachery. The real traitor is the exile, it's the trahison toward the force.

So, I see Nihilus and Sion as some tool the force uses because it couldn't use the exile anymore.

[Zilod]

Excuse me, there is some misunderstanding.

 

I didn't meant that the exile would have been Nihilus, he could have become something else, but the fact is, in the SW univers, everybody has to assume the power of the force, that is, to be clearer : the exile destroyed malachor and hence should have become a "sith" or dark jedi in the end of the force.

It's the term of the contract every jedi signs with the force : you use it in some way, you face the consequences.

 

So, the Exile cut the contract, he cut himself to the force : it was the ultimate treachery. The real traitor is the exile, it's the trahison toward the force.

So, I see Nihilus and Sion as some tool the force uses because it couldn't use the exile anymore.

I hope to have understood it right this time, but still don't agree too much.

Probably because i don't see the Exile as a powerfull jedi.

In my opinion if the Exile become a sith probably he where killed in KOTOR1 as one of the nameless siths that face Revan.

Also we don't know if the Exile really had to fall to DS, is also likelly that he was able to resist, resulting in his death on malachor.

 

Sion and Nihilus seem a bit excessive to me to be just a reaction to his "lost force", i can agree to see them as a reaction to his threacery as you call him, so not to "balance" what it was and could have be, but to balance his act and what he become.

 

Also as said i have problems to define the sith lords as that, in the force perspective or a global one we can see them like that, but i don't think is what they really are.

[Orchomene]

Well, what I said was :

-the exile destroyed (using Boa Dur) an entire planet.

-the exile was at that time a jedi.

-a jedi who destroys an entire planet should fall to the dark side.

-the exile refused to hear the pain, cries,... and rejected the force, and then didn't fall to the dark side.

-the force uses minions (jedi and sith) and the horror of M5 and also maybe the hole in the force created by the exile created such minions : sion and nihilus.

 

That's all I said. I've never implied that the exile fell to the dark side, only that a jedi who mass murders people should fall to the dark side according to SW universe.

[Orchomene]

Also, I've added a big parallel between Hegelian and Nietzschian philosophy and the jedi/sith and kreia's point of views in the thread called "fill the gap bla blabla" if you are interested. That gives a point of view that encompasses the story (well, for me at least).

[dataform]

My idea is that Nihilus is the Force because since it left you it went on to create another wound because the exiles force became a wound like a rouge force.

[Aegis]

a jedi who destroys an entire planet should fall to the dark side.

 

How exactly did you come to that conclusion?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It would depend if you enjoyed it or not. If you can maintain your detachment while fighting then you wont fall it's not like Malachor is a planet with a populace.

 

If the exile had fallen then I doubt they would have turned their back on war, they would seek out conflict instead. Someone who had fallen would have no need to cut themselves off from the echoing screams of the dying, they would revel in it. I think thats part of what Kreia was trying to find out.

 

The whole Nihilus being a part of the exile would probably be familiar to anyone who played PST. It's quite possible that the writing started that way. There are some hints that Sion and the character know each other and have a history. But I dont think that was the final intent.

 

I'm sure a lot of people were putting the clues together and coming up with a rewritten PST plot.

[Azr1el]

I'd see him as more of an embodiment of the force that you threw out of yourself during the deaths at Malachor V.  The result is that you have a vacuum where your connection to the force used to be, causing you to leech off the force of force sensitives, while your connection to the force, now embodied in Darth Nihilus, destroys people to get their force to feed on.

 

Consider it like a wood burning stove.  You are the stove, and your connection to the force is the fire.  When you cut yourself off from the force, you expel the fire.  But rather than go out, the fire continues to burn outside of you.  So while you have no fire, you gain your warmth from the fires of others.  What was your fire, however, burns stronger and stronger, creating a firestorm that consumes all the fuel around it.  It destroys everything and everyone completely, and so whether you are ultimately good or evil, Nihilus is evil because he destroys, not because he is your reflection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Interesting. That explains the reference to the siths being "spawned" out of the Exile after Malachor V. Thanks!

[jim[beam]]

I dont necessarily agree with the theory that when a jedi kills a planet he should fall to the darkside. What if a jedi killed a planet in order to save other planets? Then the jedi would have saved other planets by destroying planet and has saved more lives...

 

-jim

[Orchomene]

Sure, it could depend. But I think you are pretty close to fall to the dark side.

Well, that's not that if mass murders are specially a kind act, even to save a galaxy. There were people who were innocents in Malachor 5 (like in the death star...)

[Aegis]

No, it does not depend. Your alignment is not a result of your actions, it's your actions that are a result of your alignment. The game does it the other way around because the latter would be hard to implement. But make no mistake, the dark/light meter represent your reputation more accurately than your alignment.

[AlanC9]

Your alignment is not a result of your actions, it's your actions that are a result of your alignment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That isn't how Star Wars works.

[Aegis]

So you're telling me that either alignment in Star Wars work backwards, or the light/dark side has nothing to do with alignment?