Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Well... It's pretty obvious isn't it? LucasArts asked Obsidian to develop the game. They wanted the game ready for a certain date. Obsidian which is being PAID by LucasArts to develop the game doesn't have a say in the release date. All the official content that is released for the game goes through LucasArts. LucasArts chooses when to release the game. Obviously LucasArts atleast looked at the final product and they chose to release the game on February 8th 2005. If LucasArts wanted the bugs fixed, they would have delayed the release. Therefore, while Obsidian could have done a better job at debugging in the time it was alotted, LucasArts is mainly to blame. Mike Gallo did evaded questions in the interviews because he did not want to tell us the truth that : LucasArts released the game so that they could make some quick money and they knew about the bugs. That still doesn't account for the POOR game balance, uber lame random item generator, and other faults. The overly buggy state of the game may be to blame on LA, but that's about it. And I didn't run into any bugs, apart from a few freezes. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LucasArts wanted the random item generator thing done. While the implementation may have been poor (Obsidian's fault), LucasArts was the producer and ultimately they cleared these things.
213374U Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 LucasArts wanted the random item generator thing done. While the implementation may have been poor (Obsidian's fault), LucasArts was the producer and ultimately they cleared these things. LA gave guidelines to be followed. OE implemented some of those poorly. The same thing with the player starting as a Jedi. That was a requirement by LA. However OE circumvented this by taking the PC's Force powers and lightsaber away. Yep, you start off as a Jedi alright, or at least that's what it reads in the character sheet. Sorry, but I'm with Volo on this one. Damn, I'm beginning to sound like I hate the game, when actually there's nothing farther from the truth. The game however, is not without its flaws, and OE is just as responsible for those as LA. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Damn, I'm beginning to sound like I hate the game, when actually there's nothing farther from the truth. The game however, is not without its flaws, and OE is just as responsible for those as LA. Well... we all have our opinions. I think that KotOR 2 in terms of story, gameplay and features is superior to its predecessor and sets a level in RPG gaming.
Darth Riker Ketra Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 I have to disagree with Darth Ni, srry man, u see LA needed a deadline for the game to be released, they pressured Obsidian to hurry. So probably there must have been some new codes for the game, etc. So Lucas Arts couldnt do anything about it, they had a deadline and they met it. If not, something woulda happened, i dunno wat exactly, but that is wat i say
Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 I have to disagree with Darth Ni, srry man <{POST_SNAPBACK}> YOU HAVE PERSONALLY OFFENDED ME I HATE YOU! So Lucas Arts couldnt do anything about it<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Umm.... right... the publisher can't do anything to affect the release date. Where's the flaw in that logic? Seems perfect they had a deadline and they met it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes... considering that they said that the game would arrive for PC by December w/ the X-BOX... yep... they kind of overshot the deadline by what? 3 months. If not, something woulda happened <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Care to elaborate on what would have happened? That's ok... disagree all you want.. I've got 800 Posts!! I'm going to try and work my way to 1,000 before I leave the Obsidian forums.
Darth Riker Ketra Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 I have to disagree with Darth Ni, srry man, u see LA needed a deadline for the game to be released, they pressured Obsidian to hurry. So probably there must have been some new codes for the game, etc. So Lucas Arts couldnt do anything about it, they had a deadline and they met it. If not, something woulda happened, i dunno wat exactly, but that is wat i say <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's ok... disagree all you want.. I've got 800 Posts!! I'm going to try and work my way to 1,000 before I leave the Obsidian forums. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> im not trying to disagree with u all the way, that is my opinion and good for u if u got 800 posts, u must be a true fan of obsidian forum s, spending time here. COOL GLAD TO KNOW UR MAKIN IT TO 1000 b4 u leave
Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 im not trying to disagree with u all the way, that is my opinion and good for u if u got 800 posts, u must be a true fan of obsidian forum s, spending time here. COOL GLAD TO KNOW UR MAKIN IT TO 1000 b4 u leave <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Read my EDITED post.
Reveilled Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Signing a contract with LucasArts is roughly comparable to getting married to a womaniser with wedding vows that explicitly allowed cheating. When one partner goes off with someone else, the other partner shouldn't go complaining, because she knew exactly what she was getting into. Same situation here. It isn't like it is a big secret that LucasArts does this. Obsidian went into the development of this game with their eyes open. They were the ones who signed a contract that said LucasArts could change the release date. The rushed release of this game is at least partially their fault too. Hawk! Eggplant! AWAKEN!
Lifthransir Bane Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 LucasArts wanted the random item generator thing done. While the implementation may have been poor (Obsidian's fault), LucasArts was the producer and ultimately they cleared these things. LA gave guidelines to be followed. OE implemented some of those poorly. The same thing with the player starting as a Jedi. That was a requirement by LA. However OE circumvented this by taking the PC's Force powers and lightsaber away. Yep, you start off as a Jedi alright, or at least that's what it reads in the character sheet. Sorry, but I'm with Volo on this one. Damn, I'm beginning to sound like I hate the game, when actually there's nothing farther from the truth. The game however, is not without its flaws, and OE is just as responsible for those as LA. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The most common complaints are about things taken out of the game (including a planet), bugs, crashes, an last act that seems half-finished and 75% unexplainable and poor party AI. Of those things the party AI thing is the only thing that can be put on obsidian, so when people have random non-specific complaints I tend to throw it all on Lucas arts. If your complaints are with balance issues and the random item generator, then those are less frequent complaints which can only be attributed to Obsidian, and I guess, in that case you would be right incriticizing both companies. Overall, the only thing I have trouble living with is the last act. No explanation of why you're alone, no explanation of the MSG, what the hell is Mira doing if she's there? What's Goto's deal? What's with the ship? This stuff's absence is too obvious to be an oversight, it must have been a matter of not having time to do it right. So, in my case, it's all Lucasarts' fault.
ampulator00 Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 It's not Obsidian Entertainment, I don't support; I'm just reall furious, at Lucasrts, for how little time they gave Obsidian Entertainment. I'm still planning to buy Neverwinter Nights II.
Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 LucasArts wanted the random item generator thing done. While the implementation may have been poor (Obsidian's fault), LucasArts was the producer and ultimately they cleared these things. LA gave guidelines to be followed. OE implemented some of those poorly. The same thing with the player starting as a Jedi. That was a requirement by LA. However OE circumvented this by taking the PC's Force powers and lightsaber away. Yep, you start off as a Jedi alright, or at least that's what it reads in the character sheet. Sorry, but I'm with Volo on this one. Damn, I'm beginning to sound like I hate the game, when actually there's nothing farther from the truth. The game however, is not without its flaws, and OE is just as responsible for those as LA. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The most common complaints are about things taken out of the game (including a planet), bugs, crashes, an last act that seems half-finished and 75% unexplainable and poor party AI. Of those things the party AI thing is the only thing that can be put on obsidian, so when people have random non-specific complaints I tend to throw it all on Lucas arts. If your complaints are with balance issues and the random item generator, then those are less frequent complaints which can only be attributed to Obsidian, and I guess, in that case you would be right incriticizing both companies. Overall, the only thing I have trouble living with is the last act. No explanation of why you're alone, no explanation of the MSG, what the hell is Mira doing if she's there? What's Goto's deal? What's with the ship? This stuff's absence is too obvious to be an oversight, it must have been a matter of not having time to do it right. So, in my case, it's all Lucasarts' fault. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, I don't have a problem if they fail to add a few points because the modifiers need a little fixing. What I do have a problem with is game killing bugs, stupid AI, rushed release date etc. Therefore I blame LucasArts' 100%. They have come out with some good titles so its not like I wont buy from them in the future but I was disappointed with their handling of KotOR2. Republic Commando seems like an interesting title and I do plan on purchasing it. Hopefully this patch that will be released soon will fix the stupid issues.
Darth Riker Ketra Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 lol true, i gotta agree with that there
The Bardic Pen Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Obsidian rules all! It is a little coincidental that, while K1 was advertised like there was no tomorrow, I never saw a tv commercial for K2, that the game was released two months before it was finished and that SW: Revenge of the Sith is coming out soon as a movie and a game.
Darth Riker Ketra Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Obsidian rules all! It is a little coincidental that, while K1 was advertised like there was no tomorrow, I never saw a tv commercial for K2, that the game was released two months before it was finished and that SW: Revenge of the Sith is coming out soon as a movie and a game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True we never saw a tv commercial for kotor 2, there was one for kotor. Well i gotta ask you guys a question. Which developer you think is good... either Bioware or Obsidian Entertainment? Be honest here. I think Bioware is good (w00t)
Darth Ni Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Obsidian rules all! It is a little coincidental that, while K1 was advertised like there was no tomorrow, I never saw a tv commercial for K2, that the game was released two months before it was finished and that SW: Revenge of the Sith is coming out soon as a movie and a game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True we never saw a tv commercial for kotor 2, there was one for kotor. Well i gotta ask you guys a question. Which developer you think is good... either Bioware or Obsidian Entertainment? Be honest here. I think Bioware is good (w00t) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They both have strenghts and weaknesses. Obsidian Entertainment has an amazing story developing team which is far superior to BioWare's story development team. The difference is that BioWare is stronger in the programming/coding aspect of game development. BioWare has more and more experienced programmers and thus they manage to lick the bugs clean.
Keeval Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 They both have strenghts and weaknesses. Obsidian Entertainment has an amazing story developing team which is far superior to BioWare's story development team. The difference is that BioWare is stronger in the programming/coding aspect of game development. BioWare has more and more experienced programmers and thus they manage to lick the bugs clean. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have to say that - at the moment I am about 3/4 through the game after playing it for about 30 hours (I'm taking my time exploring everwhere). From what I have seen at the moment the story and plot has been superb. There were a couple of small irritating bugs I had to endure. Minor ones such as not seeing people talking correctly (as they were behind a door etc..) and frame rate problems due to Dantooine (turning off soft shadows fixed that). But otherwise I am very happy with the game (so far..) I believe that Obsidian has a very strong writing team and that once Obsidian are a bit more established (as a company - I know the writers etc.. have worked on some amazing titles in the past) then they wll be able to control the production/contract process a little more. This is showed by KOTOR1 as Bioware (one of the largest and most respected games software developers out there) could reasonably influence the timetable of development and release. To ensure that their QA teams had been through the game thoroughly before it it was given to Lucasarts QA (who I have a low opinion of). And as said in another thread, one simple patch for some text errors is already out (for international versions) and a new patch is in the making. So I don't believe that we are going to be left out in the cold with a buggy game forever. I hope that both Obsidian and Lucasarts will use this as a learning experience. Oh and if any of the Developers are reading this... any chance you can put the REAL ending back in with the new patch. (I'm sure the community could arrange a few beers if need be!) Regards, -Keeval-
Volourn Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 "The most common complaints are about things taken out of the game (including a planet), bugs, crashes, an last act that seems half-finished and 75% unexplainable and poor party AI. Of those things the party AI thing is the only thing that can be put on obsidian, so when people have random non-specific complaints I tend to throw it all on Lucas arts." Huh? You don't percentages very well. People are complaining about the easy combat, poor game balance, the random loot generator, and some of the writing which is very crappy. Hello! I'm not the Last Non Jedi Jedi = Lame. Bottom line is you are quoting percentages without likely having done ANY research, And, oh, KOTOR1 also had things cut from it including a planet. nice try; though. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
213374U Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 The most common complaints are about things taken out of the game (including a planet), bugs, crashes, an last act that seems half-finished and 75% unexplainable and poor party AI. Of those things the party AI thing is the only thing that can be put on obsidian, so when people have random non-specific complaints I tend to throw it all on Lucas arts. No. Complaints about things cut out are only frequent among people who have been following the game, not the majority of gamers. Complaints about the last act are legit, but that was OE's fault for not polishing it enough. They had to cut things, that's a shame. But it was up to them to polish the result and make the pieces fall into place without all the material that got cut. That wasn't LA's job. And about the buginess, well, I have already admitted that was probably LA's fault. If your complaints are with balance issues and the random item generator, then those are less frequent complaints which can only be attributed to Obsidian, and I guess, in that case you would be right incriticizing both companies. LOL. Less frequent? Take a moment to read the boards, please. Overall, the only thing I have trouble living with is the last act. No explanation of why you're alone, no explanation of the MSG, what the hell is Mira doing if she's there? What's Goto's deal? What's with the ship? This stuff's absence is too obvious to be an oversight, it must have been a matter of not having time to do it right. So, in my case, it's all Lucasarts' fault. Then all the stuff that doesn't make sense should have been cut out as well to prevent confusion, specially Mira's and G0-T0's scenes in Malachor V . And about Nihilus, well, they explain what he's all about. Your not liking it or its lack of depth doesn't assure they had something more planned for him. So you're just making random assumptions about things that were supposedly cut out so you can merrily blame LA. Sorry, but no. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Terick Stoermshade Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 As was mentioned earlier in this thread, I've supported Obsidian with my $50. I'm only about 16 or 17 hours into the game and still on the first planet after Telos, but I am enjoying the story a great deal. It has alot of depth and the NPC's are interesting. I find myself looking forward to the next event. That being said, there is an unfinished quality to the game. Cutscenes don't always seem to fire off correctly, enemy AI is pretty dismal, pathfinding is questionable and the planets are pretty empty. Don't even get me started on the random loot generator. Obsidian signed a contract with LA to produce a game that met certain criteria, for a given cost and would be completed in a specific time frame. I doubt they were forced to sign this contract and suspect they had some input into the details. If they didn't feel they were given a sufficient period of time to complete the game, they needed to either negotiate for more time or pursue other projects before signing anything. I understand that there are always unforseen issues that popup during development, but who in business doesn't deal with these things? It is the joint responsibility of the developer and publisher to ensure the product is as bug-free as possible and is ready for release. I don't see the benefit of placing blame on one party or the other for the game's shortcomings -- both share this burden. Both agreed to the contract. For that matter, both should be congratulated for the game's successes. I only hope that Obsidian and LA have learned some things from this project and that future games will improve upon the good points of KotORII while avoiding some of the pitfalls.
DarthPanda Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 As was mentioned earlier in this thread, I've supported Obsidian with my $50. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I support Obsidian as well... but, how much of the profits do developers get from sales? I thought they were just paid by the publisher to make the game, and possibly receive a bonus depending on how well it sells? Most of the cash is going to LucasArts, either way <_<
Terick Stoermshade Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Most of the cash is going to LucasArts, either way <_< <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As they most likely funded the development effort, that seems to be a reasonable conclusion. I hope Obsidian is satisfied with the compensation they've received/are receiving as a result of this project -- since, I'm sure, the monetary rewards were thoroughly detailed (and agreed to) in the contract... The best we can do, as fans/customers, for Obsidian is purchase their games and provide constructive feedback on these forums. To the best of my knowledge, there was no external beta testing. Had there been, perhaps some of these concerns would've been addressed. We can also provide feedback to LA if we feel their management of the project is a bit sketchy (whether they listen, or not, is debatable).
Naso Posted February 17, 2005 Posted February 17, 2005 Feedback to LA? LOL If protest marches around the building don't do anything, what do you think "feedback" will? really now.........
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