The political compass

[draakh_kimera]

Take a country such as Sweden...  I've liked most Swedes, but they tout their economy as suggesting that they've really been on the ball.  This completely ingores the larger geo-political environment that has allowed them to enjoy their bounty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

uh, sweden actually has a more capitalist economy than the US and not surprisingly, a higher per-capita income. well, by more capitalist i mean less regulated in general. there was a report that ranked us all a while back, not sure who did it. i think sweden was #1 and the US was like #3 or something... it compared taxes, regulations, trade restrictions, etc.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sweden more capitalistic than the US?!??? Dude, whoever did this report was really pulling you leg, if it stated what you say it did. Sweden IS a social economy, and that's all I'm gonna say...

 

 

@Rosjberg!

 

I was just wondering, when you say rich, do you mean the GDP per capita? I can't remember too much of how to read the HDI data, but anyway, Sweden is at 22st place, us at4th. And on a side note, Norway is at second place, and Denmark is at 5th place...

 

Taken from here

[Rosbjerg]

^ hmm I thought Sweden was much higher?? what are you guys doing down there? you should be up there along with us and Norway!!

 

and I was in part referring to the GDP/Capita and to the fact that it's not really a secret that we are all filthy rich in northern Europe compared to the rest of the world .. It doesn't really take a statistic to know that!

and that I know we all pay +50/70% in taxes and that we get so much money from the state just for being unemployed ..

 

and yeah "Sweden actually has a more capitalist economy than the US" = Priceless .. lol

[Darque]

and homelessness is not a result of capitalism.  many homeless are mentally ill, many choose to be that way.

 

you really are a d*ck, aren't you? i don't know if you're a liar or just ignorant. do you REALLY think many choose to be homeless?

 

btw, this is one of my biggest issues with the right wing extremist. they don't give a f*ck about other people. if they're mentally ill, they should get help. not roam the streets...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You deserve a smart poster award

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

I'm next to Hitler.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not.

[Errantry]

Communism doesn't have government. You're thinking socialism. Communism is just Anarchy with laws. A communist revolution calls for a socialist transitionary period, which is where communism fails. Here it is the government's job to prepare the population for communism, but the government at that point is usually corrupt and is just trying to hold on to its power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is my point... communism starts out with a tyrannical government that says "once all is well, you won't need us any more!" but in reality, any fully socialist economic system will continually require a tyranny to keep it going. that's the "lie" that i was talking about.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Taks -

 

The term 'communism' is often incorrectly used, as it is popular belief that a communist society has a dictator. This is not so; a truly communist society has no leader, and no laws other than 'a man makes what he can, and shares with those who need what he makes'. Communism cannot start off with a government, because by definition one cannot exist. The problem with communism is that it is an ideal, rather than a working system.

[Oerwinde]

and homelessness is not a result of capitalism.  many homeless are mentally ill, many choose to be that way.

 

you really are a d*ck, aren't you? i don't know if you're a liar or just ignorant. do you REALLY think many choose to be homeless?

 

btw, this is one of my biggest issues with the right wing extremist. they don't give a f*ck about other people. if they're mentally ill, they should get help. not roam the streets...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Back in my hometown the visible homeless is 1 guy who walks around with bags with "Dead lesbian heads" "Lesbians are taking over the world" and "Stop Lesbian Opression" written on them, 1 guy who collects cigarette butts, and 4 teenagers who though it would be cool to live on the streets. Oh, and the guy who's a professional welder and chooses to not work unless he can get a job paying more than $45 an hour.

[Rosbjerg]

^ conclusion .. Cybertron is a wacky place!

[Cantousent]

I look at the economy as a whole and not the per capita income. The size of the economy and its growth are far more important.

 

More important, however, is the underlying reasoning I gave you. Rosbjerg beat me to the punch, even.

[Dakoth]

now this is just a lie .. I'm sorry to say so .. but it is!

Scandinavia has a much higher living standard than the US! .. and the "the US "poverty line" is nearly middle class in most social-democracy countries" is just the other way around .. being poor in Denmark is having an monthly income of about 600$ .. because that's what you get from the goverment for being unemployed (you can even get a bonus of an additional 500$ every once in a while).. and that's something every single person can apply to, as long as they are danish citizens and out of a job (and most people are part of something called an A-Class were they get more like 1000$ a month).. now are you going to tell me that the poor in US are making more than 600 dollars a month?? because I have read the reports I "know" what poor is in your country and in the UK and countries with a similar policy..

 

Rosbjerg in America ; or maybe it is as lcalised as states; the amount of our unemployment depends on how much money you make on your job. Take me for instance a union laborer in the off season I get 400.00 a weak that translates out to 1600.00 a month. when I was only making 12.65 an hour I got 300.00 thats 1200 a month. You might have been better off comparing to our social program wellfare.

[Cantousent]

All of this ignores that the U.S. economy still drives the world economy. Sweden doesn't owe the great per capita income to its own actions nearly so much as it does to U.S. domestic policy.

 

I can hear the howls already.

[Rosbjerg]

^ Eldar I think people are quite well aware of that ..

 

and Dakoth .. yeah that wasn't what I meant .. I wasn't clear sorry about that! :"> we have the same system, like I said that's called A-class .. where you pay a ceartin amount every month or every 3 months or once a year .. and when you get unemployed you get a montly (or weekly) payment, depending on what you paid earlier .. and I apparently didn't know the figures, because you can actually get anything from 1000$ to well .. anything, depending on what you pay!

but social welfare was the 600$ I was referring to .. and no one in Denmark ever get's below that in monthly income .. so that's the absolute minimum!

[Dakoth]

^ Eldar I think people are quite well aware of that ..

 

and Dakoth .. yeah that wasn't what I meant .. I wasn't clear sorry about that!  :"> we have the same system, like I said that's called A-class .. where you pay a ceartin amount every month or every 3 months or once a year .. and when you get unemployed you get a montly (or weekly) payment, depending on what you paid earlier .. and I apparently didn't know the figures, because you can actually get anything from 1000$ to well .. anything, depending on what you pay!

but social welfare was the 600$ I was referring to .. and no one in Denmark ever get's below that in monthly income .. so that's the absolute minimum!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What else does the country give? I am just curious becasue even though I am not sure what welfare doles out money wise I an tell you here in Illinois the people using it get a link card that will buy all esential food products. (it excludes luxury items like veil, lobster, alcohol) So even though the money might not be exact it might even out because of the fact we are given a food allowence seperate from the check. As I said earlier also this might change from state to state.

[213374U]

All of this ignores that the U.S. economy still drives the world economy.  Sweden doesn't owe the great per capita income to its own actions nearly so much as it does to U.S. domestic policy.

That is true. But you forgot to mention that that works both ways.

[Rosbjerg]

to Dakoth:

well you can't get anything else except money .. but if 600$ isn't enough you can get up to 500$ extra each month .. to buy the essential food or what ever! but of course you have to prove you need it, which isn't hard if you actually do ..

 

how about school? do you get any money from attending that?

 

here, if you are under any kind of education ... (and over 18) you get something called "goverment education support" which is determined by you income and your parent(s) income (+how far you live away from them) .. the absolute max is about 1000$ and the minimum is 420$.. if you have a job on the side (and you make more than the maximum allowed pr year) you pay taxes on all of you make above that (which is almost 45-50%) ..

 

(I calculate 1$ = 5kr)

[alternative_genius]

just a brief post back on topic i scarily am at -8.11, -8.40 and i always thought i was a moderate

[BuckeyeRowe]

The reason why I think Capitalism is so great is that you have the most freedom to make something of yourself. That isn't to say you can't improve your financial situation in the more Socialized countries, but in America the responsiblity is placed more on you as you get less help from the Government. Not so much of "the Government is here to take care of you" philosophy. More of "you are what you make yourself" thought. And we believe that if you make yourself wealthy, you should keep it - not be obligated to give it to someone who hasn't made it like you have.

 

Now that's not say that some just have bad luck and can't get ahead. We do have programs to help those who are truely "less fortunate". And some are just born rich. But we don't penalize them for it.

[alternative_genius]

The reason why I think Capitalism is so great is that you have the most freedom to make something of yourself. That isn't to say you can't improve your financial situation in the more Socialized countries, but in America the responsiblity is placed more on you as you get less help from the Government. Not so much of "the Government is here to take care of you" philosophy. More of "you are what you make yourself" thought. And we believe that if you make yourself wealthy, you should keep it - not be obligated to give it to someone who hasn't made it like you have.

 

Now that's not say that some just have bad luck and can't get ahead. We do have programs to help those who are truely "less fortunate". And some are just born rich. But we don't penalize them for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All economic systems are absurdly flawed, capitalism for example favours those already rich over the poor making it easier for a millionaire to bacome a billionaire than it is for a poor man to become a millionaire, so any argument over which system works best is inherently flawed. Humanity corrupts all ideals when put into practice, just look at communism, one of the most idealistic and humane systems in theory and yet put into practice becomes one of the most horrific examples of the corruption of power.

 

The only economic systems that work are those which rely on mixing the various economic systems.

 

Also i think you'll find most people have "bad luck" and can't get ahead in capitalism and the minority are lucky and their hard work pays off.

[BuckeyeRowe]

The only economic systems that work are those which rely on mixing the various economic systems.

 

Which is why we don't have a true capitalist society.

 

Also i think you'll find most people have "bad luck" and can't get ahead in capitalism and the minority are lucky and their hard work pays off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree.

[Laozi]

The only economic systems that work are those which rely on mixing the various economic systems.

 

Which is why we don't have a true capitalist society.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No we have a true capitalist society, its one of the many reasons why we don't live in a democracy

[alternative_genius]

Also i think you'll find most people have "bad luck" and can't get ahead in capitalism and the minority are lucky and their hard work pays off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So how do you explain the millions of people working their guts out on minimum wage on more than one job just to stay alive? Or the people unable to go to college due to having to work to help support their families?

 

P.S. I'm well aware that the US's economic system is not truly capitalistic, if it was then the poor would end up realising they have more power than thay realise and revolt causing the system to change most likely towards a system similar to communism as it was until that too was overthrown and so on ad infinitum.

[Laozi]

P.S. I'm well aware that the US's economic system is not truly capitalistic, if it was then the poor would end up realising they have more power than thay realise and revolt causing the system to change most likely towards a system similar to communism as it was until that too was overthrown and so on ad infinitum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You would think so, but I guess Atlas will never shrug if he has affordable electronics, MTV, wave after wave of mindless sitcoms, and someonme to look down there nose at.

[Ludozee]

I'm Liberal, yay!!!

Economic Left/Right: -5.50

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.08

[Blarghagh]

Did it several times before. The first time I was right next to Ghandi, the others I kept getting lefter and lefter.

 

A two axis system can only lead to gross inaccuracies though.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Wow, i'm rather conservative, but compared to my classmates I'm a flaming liberal!