Why is duel wielding made superior in KotOR II?

[jaguars4ever]

Wow...6th level Two-weapon fighting actually yields 'inverse-penalties', i.e. bonuses to one's attack, when using a balanced weapon.

 

[Bokishi]

ok

[jaguars4ever]

ok

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But is it?

[severxsever]

Dual-wielding is stylistically bankrupt. I'd liken it to requesting a doggy bag at a gourmet restaurant as a means to scavenge home a piece of parsley, but that, at least, is practical.

[213374U]

Obi throws Anakin his saber, and Anakin starts swinging and Dooku begins to backpedal...

 

For a *moment* Dooku was on the defensive, until Anakin stopped swinging, and Dooku either cut his arm off, or the lightsaber, I don't remember.

So, going backwards = being on the deffensive? Whoa, and here I thought that being on the defensive meant to concentrate on a defensive strategy rather than falling back a few steps. I thought that there was more to being on the defensive than parrying a few blows, that it involved a whole different fighting style. Obviously you would make a GREAT fencing master if you just stood your ground and only tried to stab the other guy without worrying about his weapon(s) when you were 'on the offensive'.

Man, what a great fencer the world is missing.

 

 

But ok, Star Wars master, you see it a different way, neato.

So says the Anakin fanboi. LMFAO

[Epiphany]

"Anakin fanboi"? Wow, I didn't know I could be a fanboy for a character and/or set of movies that I'm not even a hardcore fan of.

 

NEAT!

 

So, going backwards = being on the deffensive?

 

I would classify backpedaling and deflecting blows being a defensive maneuver.

[draakh_kimera]

I would classify backpedaling and deflecting blows being a defensive maneuver.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A defensive maneuver, maybe, depends on the situation. If you're going at a guy and you backpedal to avoid getting hit, I wouldn't classify it as defensive. If you are on the defensive, trying to block hits from coming in, and then you backpedal, it would be a defensive maneuver. Anyway, that's my view on it, and just to back it up a bit, I've studied a couple of martial arts, mainly boxing and tae kwondo, some muay thai (mainly theoretically).

[bodrock]

as a consular/sith lord, even with proficiency in dual-wielding, I'm still not as much of a kick-ass melee fighter as my sentinel/jedi master was, with his duelling-maxed single-hilt lightsaber (that is, she tends to lose HP much quicker up-close).....but then again, who needs a 'saber when you've mastered the Dark Side of the Force.

[213374U]

"Anakin fanboi"?  Wow, I didn't know I could be a fanboy for a character and/or set of movies that I'm not even a hardcore fan of.

Yet you're here discussing the finer points of a SW duel. Yeah right, you're not hardcore. You just like SW so very much.

 

 

I would classify backpedaling and deflecting blows being a defensive maneuver.

A defensive maneuver, yes. But performing a defensive maneuver to avoid being chopped in half is not being on the defensive. You might need to perform defensive maneuvers to counter an enemy's retaliation, which implies you're on the offensive.

 

 

A defensive maneuver, maybe, depends on the situation.  If you're going at a guy and you backpedal to avoid getting hit, I wouldn't classify it as defensive.  If you are on the defensive, trying to block hits from coming in, and then you backpedal, it would be a defensive maneuver.

Exactly.

[Epiphany]

spectacular

 

Yet you're here discussing the finer points of a SW duel. Yeah right, you're not hardcore. You just like SW so very much.

 

One of the funniest things I've read in my time on these forums.

[213374U]

spectacular

 

Yet you're here discussing the finer points of a SW duel. Yeah right, you're not hardcore. You just like SW so very much.

 

One of the funniest things I've read in my time on these forums.

S P A M

 

[Epiphany]

spectacular

 

Yet you're here discussing the finer points of a SW duel. Yeah right, you're not hardcore. You just like SW so very much.

 

One of the funniest things I've read in my time on these forums.

S P A M

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pot...

 

Meet Kettle.

[213374U]

spectacular

 

Yet you're here discussing the finer points of a SW duel. Yeah right, you're not hardcore. You just like SW so very much.

 

One of the funniest things I've read in my time on these forums.

S P A M

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pot...

 

Meet Kettle.

S P A M

 

[Epiphany]

rinse and repeat

[213374U]

Keep going, you've already proven yourself a worthy spammer. Too bad I ran out of cookies.

[Epiphany]

Keep going, you've already proven yourself a worthy spammer. Too bad I ran out of cookies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's so hard to maintain your level of quality though. I mean, the whole S P A M thing is just too good to top. You have irony in its most basic form, which is just undeniably masterful in terms of posting quality.

[jaguars4ever]

Dueling in TSL is pretty much a waste of time and feats.

 

As one's character level progresses the apparent bonuses incurred by dueling become grossly less significant. This is party due to the fact that all Jedi Classes have equal BaB progression. Hence the +3 attack bonus from Master Dueling is rendered insignificant at higher levels, as you'll effectivley be able to hit anything anyway.

 

Also, both regualar Jedi classes and Prestige Classes gain hefty class bonuses to defence. Therefore, using the aforementioned reasoning, the +3 defence bonus from Master Dueling somewhat also pales in comparison.

 

As Hades said, with the exception of the earliest of early levels, once you invest some feats into Two-Weapon Fighting, it will always be better than Dueling - twice as good in fact.

 

 

 

 

* observes Number Man & Epiphany employ Master Dueling, leaves room quietly :ph34r: *

[213374U]

It's so hard to maintain your level of quality though.  I mean, the whole S P A M thing is just too good to top.  You have irony in its most basic form, which is just undeniably masterful in terms of posting quality.

 

S P A M

 

 

No, really.

[Zahadome]

Of course.  Its Christopher Lee.  Everything is better with Christopher Lee in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Of course. He's the "man with the golden gun."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

And don't forget, he's the grandaddy of all suckheads because he is TEH Count Dracula.

 

As for dual wielding made superior....I don't really care either way (w00t)

[Catalyst]

You can backpedal without being on the defencive. Swordplay relies on balance and footwork as much as skill with a sword. And at any point in a fight both sides can be attacking and defending, irrevlavent of who is parrying, etc. All one of the combatants must do is manage to remain in balance while moving forward into attacking manouver from his opponent - difficult, but not impossible, particularly if you can see your opponent's attacks before they happen. In swordplay, footwork is everything.

[Fearless_Jedi]

But in the movies the single doesn't seem limited...there has to be some reason Dooku, Anakin, Sidious, Yoda chose the single blade....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dooku, Sidious and Yoda were all of the counsular type. It would only make sense they would use a single blade, so their "force powers" could be focused on more.

 

Maul would fall in the "maurader" wouldn't he? Double bladed.

 

Anakin uses two blades at the end of ep 2, and also during his fight with Obi in ep 3. But you can see the limits of a single blade when Anakin fights Dooku... Here you have a padawan, going against a sith lord former jedi master, and he puts up a good fight when he duel wields, actually putting Dooku on the defensive for a moment. Maul was able to fight a jedi master and a padawan with his double blade, killed the master once he got to solo combat, and then go punked when his saber got busted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Firstly, I wouldn't define Dooku, Sidious, or Yoda in those classes, according to Lucas, on a scale of 1-10 in lightsaber skill Sidious and Yoda are 9s as well as Anakin in EpIII.

 

Next, Anakin isn't going to use two weapons in EpIII except when he

Cuts off Dookus head

that is it...Dont know who told u he would use two in the obi fight but it has been stated time and again by EpIII Crew memebers that Anakin wont be using 2 sabers this time around.

 

Finally, why cant single saber, duel wielding, and double bladed be equal? Obi Wan prooved thata single could beat a double bladed in EpI and Dooku prooved a single could beat duel lightsabers thus I see no reason why a single, duel lightsabers, and a double bladed cant all be equal...they each seem to have their own advantages and disadvantages.

 

Primary source is from StarWars.com

[Epiphany]

The script says that while fighting Obi, Anakin pulls out an additional lightsaber (the red one) and fights him with both.

 

Your source is StarWars.com, the same people that said ep 1 would be an incredible movie. I'll take a leaked script over their information anyday... :/

[Fearless_Jedi]

We'll have to see come EpIII then.

[Saberist]

Think About This-

 

1 blade. TWO HANDS. _No Weight_ in the blade itself.

 

Thus any 'power' of the strike comes from either Force Telekinetics (amplifying the kinetic motion of the blade itself) or force-as-Muscles literally treating the weapon like a baseball bat or a sledgehammer. Something you can only do if the blade is unshiverable and at the same time, 'all edge'.

 

If both hands are on the haft, you get twice as much power. One hand on two hafts, half as much. HOWEVER; you also get half as much reach.

 

You /can/ 'dual lock' blades by crossing them and in some ways this does give you added leverage (forcing against your own as well as your opponent's blade from a lowered elbow angle).

 

But GETTING THEM THEM THERE is not easy because traditionally dual wielding is about clearing the blade cut planes so that they -don't- 'cross over' and self block each other. While staying offensive by making your enemy worry about two separate blade:body attack indexes on his own hide.

 

Indeed, among the best schools of fencing (Italian and Spanish) the fencing 'dagger' is only about a 1/3rd as long as the main blade (a rapier _lunging_ thrust weapon of some kind) because the shorter weapon, often with wide quillons, is used purely to trap and redirect the enemy strike without becoming as commited to (gross body motion) 'dodging' yourself as to take your longer thrusting weapon out of line with a riposte or similar counterattack.

 

Such a system may not be as necessary (endurance and speed) on a 'weightless' long blade. Wherein a series of eccentric circles like Distreza based fighting can help draw the enemy forward and out. But the (dual) blade clearance problems would remain and along with the axial body alignment necessary to strike-then-strike (linear timing vs. the reach of the swinging and '****ed' blade arms), a good single wielder can do a lot to 'interrupt' a dual wielders dynamic or nothing attack cycle. Making him look like a clumsy oaf.

 

Stepping OUT of alignment with that linear 'pirouhette' attack you see in the trailer so much, either vertically or laterally, is one method that a single wielder, properly focussed can 'void' (be where the blade axis is not) do instead of parry/blocking or countercutting into a blade cutplane.

 

Last but not least, let me emphasize here that the real warriors have 'live hands' which can tumble or redirect a blade touch location based on a 'repostured' grip rather than purely stance based hack & whack. They can also SWITCH hands, on the fly, making themselves lefty-righty ambidextrous in a fashion that is truly scarey to a man who has trained to strike at body locations that ONLY 'open up' reveal themselves (through a series of kata like form progressions) if the enemy is a guaranteed dexter or sinister handed player.

 

Of all the faults in the KOTOR swordplay system (and there are MANY, ranging from body size vs. footwork and reach problems to inability to use open hand/'dirty trick' in-fighting methods, to Force Enhanced motions that alter or exceed basic body kinesthetics of facing, spacing and pacing) perhaps the most telling is that there is no 'system of systems' by which the various weapons and forms interact, allowing the PLAYER to understand and show his real skill.

 

Irrespective of 'feats'.

 

Instead, we have a deadly dull statistical system do all our fighting for us.

 

I hope you all realize you -are- 'just watching a movie', done by automatons for whom, whether a blade touches or not, does damage or not, _on screen_ means absolutely NOTHING compared to the 'roll of the dice' mathematical (invisible, uncontrollable) resolutions?

 

 

Saberist Out.

[Dragonforce]

in most rpg's you tend to think of a weapon master as a dual wielder, you would also tend to think of a weapon master as an offensive class

 

well logically the prestige feats would therefore be for dual wielders since they are designed to dish out the most damage possible