Obireel Y Doncha Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 the Council didn't directly try to restore revan to the light, they tried to insert a completely new personality [and failed (perhaps completely, perhaps partially; time will tell)] . That's an interesting point that gets right at the so-called morality of the Jedi Council. But did they really mind wipe Revan and try to install a new personality? That's what I initially thought but I don't know if it was ever stated that way by someone in a position to know. It's been a long time, but I think there was even a point in the game (maybe it was just someone's fan fiction) where Revan complains about the fact that his memories are not real, but Bastila -- who did the work on Revan -- herself never says that is what she did. I'm sure everyone has imagined their own backstory. In my role-playing of Revan, I came to the conclusion that Bastila didn't erase Revan's memories -- his memory loss was the result of massive injuries (and perhaps some remorese over what he had become) -- and she didn't manufacture and install some fake background story. Instead, she found some core of early memories and basically reset Revan to how he was before he became a Jedi. So to me this was a genuine second chance. I ain't making excuses for the Council. Lying to him that way was reprehensible, as was their dishonesty with The Exile. Even playing KOTOR2 LS, I didn't mind seeing them deprived of a second chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Maybe a little off topic, but also something to consider in the overall picture. I doubt the padawan Bastila made it all the way to Revan without his help. He wanted her there, he wanted her to watch the team she led get slaughtered by him, and then he wanted to capture her and turn her. Malak may have known this, or guessed it, and figuring he was on his way out, fired on his master's ship. Afterall, she was a much bigger asset than Malak. As for the mindwipe, I just replayed that part awhile ago. Bastila said parts of his mind were to badly damaged to be repaired, though she never indicates she actually did the psychic surgery, just a little healing to keep him alive till she got him to the council. I got the impression the majority of her information came from the council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawyl Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 It's been a long time, but I think there was even a point in the game (maybe it was just someone's fan fiction) where Revan complains about the fact that his memories are not real, but Bastila -- who did the work on Revan -- herself never says that is what she did. I think this is fanfic. I could be wrong. That's an interesting point that gets right at the so-called morality of the Jedi Council. But did they really mind wipe Revan and try to install a new personality? Yes. Bastila and the Council could easily be lying. Why would they tell Revan, a very powerful Jedi that they obviously needed the help of to win the war, that they destroyed his/her memories? That would, I assume, make Revan a bit angry... Remember what Carth says in the beginning of the game? "I've heard the Force can do terrible things to a mind...it can wipe away your memories, destroy your very identity?" I think this is a more telling foreshadowing of what truly happened to Revan, as it basically clashes with what Bastila's told you. and in addition, Revan's old memories resurface from time to time. (Cue the star map visions and the fight with Bastila.) If Revan's mind was as badly damaged as the Council said, why would this be happening? why would the Council have "reprogrammed" Revan's mind back, tried to heal it? Vrook insists on the "great danger" of you turning into Revan again, which obviously no one wanted to happen. Why would the Council have tried to bring back Revan when they could reprogram Revan with a new identity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSLuke Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Is there a greater weapon other than turning an enemy to your cause? - Bastila. Jedi can be so anoying at times. And by the light of the moon He prays for their beauty not doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I haven't read the chronicles. Y'know, I really wanted to give the Council the benefit of the doubt. Credit them with a LITTLE humanity. However, it sounds kinda cut and dry as to what they did. No wonder Vrook is like he is, he's just one symptom of a greater cancer. That probably explains why there are no Jedi left as well, the Force is cleaning its own house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I haven't read the chronicles. Y'know, I really wanted to give the Council the benefit of the doubt. Credit them with a LITTLE humanity. However, it sounds kinda cut and dry as to what they did. No wonder Vrook is like he is, he's just one symptom of a greater cancer. That probably explains why there are no Jedi left as well, the Force is cleaning its own house. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you haven't read them, I suggest that you don't. The last two certainly contain spoilers for K2 and if you're intersted in pre-K1 history, you're better off reading the Tales of the Jedi series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I've read the Tales of the Jedi. Come to think of it, they lost most of the true Masters during the war with Kun and Qel Droma. I guess the remaining Jedi were bitter old men who hated the fact that they'd lost their youth, and decided to hide from life rather than deal with it. Being the sadists they were, they came up with those happy rules the Council in K1 and K2 follow. From there, mindwipes"for your own good" aren't that big of a leap. Personally, I'd still like to think Bastila didn't go there to mindwipe Revan, but then I think of what that governor on Taris says before you kill him,"Spoken like a true drone of the Jedi Council." *sigh* Another illusion shattered. Next thing you know someone will try to tell me theres no Santa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I've read the Tales of the Jedi. Come to think of it, they lost most of the true Masters during the war with Kun and Qel Droma. I guess the remaining Jedi were bitter old men who hated the fact that they'd lost their youth, and decided to hide from life rather than deal with it. Being the sadists they were, they came up with those happy rules the Council in K1 and K2 follow. From there, mindwipes"for your own good" aren't that big of a leap. Personally, I'd still like to think Bastila didn't go there to mindwipe Revan, but then I think of what that governor on Taris says before you kill him,"Spoken like a true drone of the Jedi Council." *sigh* Another illusion shattered. Next thing you know someone will try to tell me theres no Santa. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, the hypocrisy of the undemocratic Jedi is something Palpatine may have been right about. If you see the way the re-united masters treat the Exile back at Dantooine, then it really makes one wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odabhsoj Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Lol of corse he did... All because his armor and mask looked sooo sweet lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tratious Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 yes so he/she has a chance to take over again oh yeah plus his outfit was badass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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