When did the Jedi become pacifists?

[deganawida]

Well, since there is so much mention of EU material in KotOR2, I've been reading what I can find online about the Jedi of the Old Republic. Perhaps the most accessible has been the KotOR2 Chronicles that LucasArts put up and GameBanshee reposted (very nice since I can never get the LucasArts flash page to open up). Though the Chronicles are rather cursory, I have noticed some discrepencies between the portrayal of the Jedi in them and the portrayal of the Jedi in KotOR1 & 2.

 

1. First, the Jedi of this era seem to be more warrior than diplomat. Heck, about 50 years before TSL they institute martial law on Onderon, and use military force quite often. So, why, then, do the Jedi of KotOR 1 & 2 act as though pacifism is the only true path on the Light Side? Seems like you wouldn't say that Nomi Sunrider, Cay Qel-Droma, or Arca Jeth were afraid to use violence.

 

2. The old Jedi don't seem to have any rules about romantic entanglements. Ulic Qel-Droma and Nomi Sunrider were romantically involved at some point, and Nomi had a child from her dead husband. So where does the prohibition against love come from?

 

3. On e-Paranoia.com, I learned that the Jedi Guardians answer directly to the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic. If this is the case, then why was there ever an issue about the Jedi becoming involved in the Mandalorian Wars? After all, the Republic was under direct attack by the Mandalorians, and as the Republic army/navy/whatever was involved in fighting them, it makes sense that the Jedi Guardians would be as well.

 

Anyway, these are a few questions that I have. I'm posting them in this forum as there are no game spoilers, yet I feel that these issues have direct bearing on the story of KotOR 2 (and 1 as well). Am I misinterpreting the old Jedi? Anyone with more knowledge of Star Wars and the Expanded Universe than me (which is probably just about everyone) who feels like clearing these issues up, please, do so.

[Force Reaper]

I dunno.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

First, the Jedi of this era seem to be more warrior than diplomat. Heck, about 50 years before TSL they institute martial law on Onderon, and use military force quite often. So, why, then, do the Jedi of KotOR 1 & 2 act as though pacifism is the only true path on the Light Side? Seems like you wouldn't say that Nomi Sunrider, Cay Qel-Droma, or Arca Jeth were afraid to use violence.

I think that Bioware and Obsidian were more likely to conform to the casual gamer's view of the Jedi instead of conforming to the EU, which I think would have been more interesting.

The old Jedi don't seem to have any rules about romantic entanglements. Ulic Qel-Droma and Nomi Sunrider were romantically involved at some point, and Nomi had a child from her dead husband. So where does the prohibition against love come from?

Well, love is a very beautiful thing. People have very different opinions on love. However, for the majority, I would have to return you to my first point. With the aftermath of Episode I and Episode II, i think they would rather have the game more Star Wars-y than the actual Star Wars rules.

On e-Paranoia.com, I learned that the Jedi Guardians answer directly to the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic. If this is the case, then why was there ever an issue about the Jedi becoming involved in the Mandalorian Wars? After all, the Republic was under direct attack by the Mandalorians, and as the Republic army/navy/whatever was involved in fighting them, it makes sense that the Jedi Guardians would be as well.

Because you forget, there are two more positions Jedi can take. Guardians are supposed to be the stereotypical head strong Jedi. However, since majority usually rules, the problems with the war are shown more. And lest we forget the Masters pondering the true threat, which Revan went to contend.

 

And people: please contribute. "

[Icon]

K1 at least(haven't played K2 yet), is WAY off as far as Jedi attitude goes. K1 Jedi attitude/morals/etc. come from the movies, not Tales of the Jedi comic books. Back then, Jedi were a lot like Texas Rangers of the old west. At least the rangers from stories at any rate.

 

Master Jeth sent Cay, Ullic, and Tott to Onderon to "fix" things. He didn't want them to resort to violence if they could avoid it, but it was always an option. In fact, his battle meditation turned the tide at one point. "There is no emotion, there is peace", yeah, right, theres also a lightsaber.

 

Love is forbidden?? Not back then. Jedi families were quite common. In fact, after Nomi Sunrider arrives on Onderon she and Cay(or was that Ullic?) start eyeing one another like dogs in heat. That affair didn't end well, she severed his ties to the force and accidentally made it permanent. Anyway, if you can read the comics, definately a 4 color affair, but a decent read if you can find them.

[deganawida]

There's a guy that I work with who loves all things Star Wars. Guess I'll have to ask him at the dept. meeting tomorrow if I can borrow any of the ToTJ comics he might have.

[Gromnir]

am not knowing much eu stuff... and neither do we wish to.

 

the notion of reliable canon based on something like 70 fiction novels and bunches of comic books and movies written by authors working independently of each other is... fanciful.

 

lucas is obviously concerned 'bout consistency, but we bet that you can look at almost every work (including the movies,) and find stuff that not seem to fit with s'posed canon of the star wars universe.

 

if kotor and kotor2 were good 'nuff for lucas (in terms of its agreement with accepted star wars canon,) then it is good 'nuff for Gromnir. 'course, as Gromnir has already stated that we not give a damn 'bout star wars canon, it ain't like there were a difficult standard to be met in our eyes.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Drakron]

I disagree and point out that in KotOR and JK:A we have much diferent views of the same place, I doubt LucasArts actually checks things outside not allowing Lucas main characters from being killed and the like.

 

So its seen LucasArts is like you, they dont care either.

[Gromnir]

"I doubt LucasArts actually checks things outside not allowing Lucas main characters from being killed and the like."

 

HA!

 

maybe you should email a bioware or obsidian developer 'bout this...

 

HA! Good Fun!

[thepixiesrock]

They probobly went more from the jedi ideals of the movies rather then the EU for a couple of reasons. One being that as Wheelman said, the casual starwars fan who hasn't read the EU and such would find it wierd if the jedi were like that and second, the movies are above the EU. The movies are what you should go to when you are making EU material because the movies are made by the creator of the Star Wars universe. You can't go wrong if you follow the movies...

[Sbri]

I disagree and point out that in KotOR and JK:A we have much diferent views of the same place, I doubt LucasArts actually checks things outside not allowing Lucas main characters from being killed and the like.

 

So its seen LucasArts is like you, they dont care either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Actually, they have an entire department of people (last I heard, which was about four years ago now...but still) the Licensing Department, whose entire job is to be bastions of Star Wars knowledge. Their job is to keep things as consistant as possible. Whenever there was a question about the universe, you called them. And these were questions as ranging from "how many star destroyers were at the battle of endor?" to "is the last symbol in the designation of a driod a numer or a letter?". There are interviews with authors who talk about manuscrpit reviews with the department. Sure they miss stuff, but they do in fact exist.

[Judge Hades]

There are also different sects inside the Jedi Order and not all get along or have the same agenda.

[HK-74]

There are also different sects inside the Jedi Order and not all get along or have the same agenda.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why those sectional multi-topping pizzas were invented. There's always one Sect which insists on baloney and pineapple, and there is no truer indication of the corrupting influence of the dark side.