Kaftan Barlast Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Yesterday I was watching Xmen 2 where Kelly Hu portraits the really sweet and likeable Yuriko Oyama aka Lady Deathstrike. The film progresses very nicely and offers some beautiful Alaskan nature scenery until the obviously women-hating and violent Logan aka Wolverine runs in to Yuriko. And what does he do? Does he bother to talk to her, find out more about what an intriguing personality she is? Does he ask about how it was like growing up in a patriarchic society where the only way to accomplishing a life for a strong woman is to become some dodgy mastervillains sidekick? Does he even stop to think that behind those razorsharp adamantium claws, theres a woman with thoughts and feelings of her own? -No, he chooses violence as his direct path of communication. He beats her, throws her into things, drowns her and even stabs her repeatedly. And when realising he cannot kill her with regular means he uses the very obvious sexual assault metaphor of penetrating her with a phallic object and filling her up with somekind of deadly metallic seemen and thereby killing her. First I was just really sad because the character I liked the most with died, but then I was just angry and apalled that this kind of blatantly misogynistic message is allowed in our day and age. And this isnt the first film where Ive seen this kind of behaviour either. (topic authors level of seriousness may vary, but still wishes hefty arguments will occur around matter) DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphor Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I thought they did have a chat before trying to kill each other? Now, I could be confusing what I've known from comics and from when I saw the movie, but wasn't it revealed that Lady Deathstrike and Wolverine had some sort of history? It's been awhile so I could be confused on some things. Not that your observations aren't apt or without merit. I think a good example is the fight between Ah-nold and the Terminatrix in T3 in which he gleefully thrusts her head into a toilet (a scene, which by his personal account, was one of his favourites in the film). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deganawida Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Phosphor, in the movie, Deathstrike has one line ("Why are you here?", said to the "janitor"). In fact, I don't think they even call her Deathstrike in the film, just Yuriko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphor Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Thanks for clarifying it. I've obviously confused different situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 uh, this is a movie about comic book heroes... they're always stereotypical and it really doesn't make a difference if it is a female or male villain (well, the end result doesn't... methods may depend on gender for sure). their "movitivations" are usually superficial at best and that is intentional. i.e. woman hating wolverine runs into bad chick deathstrike and rather than delve into some deep psychodrama, he goes straight for the kill because that's what he's supposed to do. this is actually part of the reason i've never really gotten into comic books... not that this is good or bad in general, it's just not an appealing thing to me. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTORFanactic Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I heard somewhere that Mr.Jackman likes getting beat up women. It turns him on apparently. I wonder if killing women does that to him as well. uh, this is a movie about comic book heroes... they're always stereotypical and it really doesn't make a difference if it is a female or male villain (well, the end result doesn't... methods may depend on gender for sure). their "movitivations" are usually superficial at best and that is intentional. i.e. woman hating wolverine runs into bad chick deathstrike and rather than delve into some deep psychodrama, he goes straight for the kill because that's what he's supposed to do. That basically explains it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child of Flame Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Yesterday I was watching Xmen 2 where Kelly Hu portraits the really sweet and likeable Yuriko Oyama aka Lady Deathstrike. The film progresses very nicely and offers some beautiful Alaskan nature scenery until the obviously women-hating and violent Logan aka Wolverine runs in to Yuriko. And what does he do? Does he bother to talk to her, find out more about what an intriguing personality she is? Does he ask about how it was like growing up in a patriarchic society where the only way to accomplishing a life for a strong woman is to become some dodgy mastervillains sidekick? Does he even stop to think that behind those razorsharp adamantium claws, theres a woman with thoughts and feelings of her own? -No, he chooses violence as his direct path of communication. He beats her, throws her into things, drowns her and even stabs her repeatedly. And when realising he cannot kill her with regular means he uses the very obvious sexual assault metaphor of penetrating her with a phallic object and filling her up with somekind of deadly metallic seemen and thereby killing her. First I was just really sad because the character I liked the most with died, but then I was just angry and apalled that this kind of blatantly misogynistic message is allowed in our day and age. And this isnt the first film where Ive seen this kind of behaviour either. (topic authors level of seriousness may vary, but still wishes hefty arguments will occur around matter) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um...wasn't she under mind control so he didn't really have a choice? uh, this is a movie about comic book heroes... they're always stereotypical and it really doesn't make a difference if it is a female or male villain (well, the end result doesn't... methods may depend on gender for sure). their "movitivations" are usually superficial at best and that is intentional. i.e. woman hating wolverine runs into bad chick deathstrike and rather than delve into some deep psychodrama, he goes straight for the kill because that's what he's supposed to do. this is actually part of the reason i've never really gotten into comic books... not that this is good or bad in general, it's just not an appealing thing to me. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You should try reading Hellboy. It's a lot deeper than most comic books, and actually has quite a bit of character relationships and drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 I just dont understand why they always have to kill the female villain in such gruesome and imaginative ways? In that film with Jackie Chan and the black guy, he impales Zhang Zhiyi on a statue or similar. I always cheer on the villains(especially the female ones) and it just breaks poor little heart when they have to kill them all the time. Itd be alot more fun if the male hero runs away with the female badgirl instead of expediting her in the most extravagant way possible. And why do the girls always have to die extra hard? The bad guy is usually shot or falls of a building or something but the girls always gets it Death Supersize DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 And why do the girls always have to die extra hard? The bad guy is usually shot or falls of a building or something but the girls always gets it Death Supersize Go down to your local library and search for the topics male insecurity, violence, adrenaline and sexual stimulation. There ought to be several shelves of books... “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellester Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Honestly I Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 well, spawn is a black guy... he made out pretty well. if you call being a hellspawn good i suppose. he's doing good things, kinda, in a screwed up sort of way at least. I just dont understand why they always have to kill the female villain in such gruesome and imaginative ways? well, for a male hero to kill a male villain in some sick sexual manner makes even less sense if you think about it. however, even with that, they are not alone in this sense. how many tiimes does the villain try some gruesome manner of death for bond? how about with austin powers and the laser beam up the crotch idea? granted, these don't come to fruition, but the parallel is still there. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 You all need to keep in mind this is all fiction. In the real world a female villian would always win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneblade Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 You all need to keep in mind this is all fiction. In the real world a female villian would always win. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Utter Nonsense. <_< "If at first you don't succeed... So much for skydiving." - Henry Youngman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Jedi Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 then again the female heroines are often saving hte day in X2 anyhow and their characters are the best developed except for professor Xavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 You all need to keep in mind this is all fiction. In the real world a female villian would always win. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Utter Nonsense. <_< <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you wish to delude yourself thusly Women would always win because men are easy to distract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 "And what does he do? Does he bother to talk to her, find out more about what an intriguing personality she is? Does he ask about how it was like growing up in a patriarchic society where the only way to accomplishing a life for a strong woman is to become some dodgy mastervillains sidekick? Does he even stop to think that behind those razorsharp adamantium claws, theres a woman with thoughts and feelings of her own? -No, he chooses violence as his direct path of communication. He beats her, throws her into things, drowns her and even stabs her repeatedly. And when realising he cannot kill her with regular means he uses the very obvious sexual assault metaphor of penetrating her with a phallic object and filling her up with somekind of deadly metallic seemen and thereby killing her." first of all .. extremely well written! lmao .. but guys are guys .. if some chicks comes along with the same abilities as you, and do the things you do .. but much better .. of course you have to kill her! I mean she's basically castrating you! Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I mean she's basically castrating you! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As it should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Women would always win because men are easy to distract. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> until you meet a homosexual, then your dead! :D Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Women would always win because men are easy to distract. Yes, damn those tight fitting cat suits. I knew there was a sinister purpose for them dressing like that... “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Jedi Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 or an ugly chick then no distraction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 With X-Men and X2, you need to consider that the director (Bryan Singer) is openly gay. I don't think he has sexual fantasies about women that are coming into play with Deathstrike's death scene. Not everything is about sex. People enjoy elaborate death scenes in movies, regardless of gender. The fact that some people are interpreting elaborate death scenes as being sexually motivated somewhat disturbs me. And while defending Deathstrike, I think you're leaving out that she ruthlessly attacked other people in the movie, far prior to Wolverine assaulting her. She may have been mind-controlled, but she was a dangerous weapon none-the-less. And X-Men isn't a stupid comic, nor a stupid movie. There is social commentary about being "different". Didn't anyone notice Iceman's "coming-out" scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 first of all .. extremely well written! lmao .. Thankyou, it really warms me that some people know to appreciate comedic effort. But you know, if *I* were Wolverine and I come upon this increadible woman whose interests and abilities reflect my own to such an extent, killing her isnt the first thing line of action Id decide on. -I dig your claws. -..must kill.. -Hey, I know you're brainwashed and all but I mean, isnt that something we could overcome? -..must shred your torso. -If you'd have dinner with me I could arrange for you to join a really good deprogramming program, its run by a friend of mine. -...must rip out pancreas.. -You, know I dont really consider myself a fighter, but more of a lover. Just by seeing your..attributes I can tell that we're very much alike and if you would just stop for a minute and consider your options here.. -...must rupture your spleen.. etc. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneblade Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 And X-Men isn't a stupid comic, nor a stupid movie. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "If at first you don't succeed... So much for skydiving." - Henry Youngman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 The fact that some people are interpreting elaborate death scenes as being sexually motivated somewhat disturbs me. You guys were actually serious about this? (w00t) Um, you must be in trouble each time a male doctor tries to inject you with something. :ph34r: - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 no no Kaftan .. she doesn't say a thing .. so naturally he assumes she agrees, and then she cuts him to pieces (like any woman would) .. they just edited that out as to not make Wolverine appear soft! Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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