Help me please. Need new game.

[Volourn]

"DnD has no real spell creation rules that allow for easily balanced spell creations.

 

Everything is guesswork.

 

DnD does not win."

 

Simply false. Why are there too many people on the Inetrnet who think they know D&D; but actually don't.

 

Tsk, tsk.

 

 

D&D wins here. It's magic system is the best. Period. Case closed. Game over.

[Judge Hades]

DnD has no real spell creation rules that allow for easily balanced spell creations.

 

Everything is guesswork.

 

DnD does not win.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, there is a spell creation rules that allows spell creation.

[213374U]

No need to, I put them into terms Volourn could understand.

 

FYI: You need to understand Volourn-eese to understand  :">

Alas, I understand what you're saying.

[Darque]

DnD has no real spell creation rules that allow for easily balanced spell creations.

 

Everything is guesswork.

 

DnD does not win.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, there is a spell creation rules that allows spell creation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

/ignoring volourn for a second.

 

/focusing on Hades.

 

Now you'd "think" based on my reply that would mean I didn't have access to that info.

 

So kindly provide it or point me to where I can find it myself.

 

Unless you're refering to the very brief bit of info in the DMG... in which case what I said applies.

[Baneblade]

Unless you're refering to the very brief bit of info in the DMG... in which case what I said applies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, there's extensive "Epic Spell Creation" bit in the Epic Level Handbook....

but in general the spell creation in D&D is not very well fleshed out.

 

But D20 is still among the best RPG systems around.

[Volourn]

"/ignoring volourn for a second."

 

Just for a second? Damn.. I've got to try harder.

 

 

"but in general the spell creation in D&D is not very well fleshed out."

 

depends on what you mean by fleshed out. Is there an entire book dedicated to the subject? No; but it sure beats what little info ther eis about MW's magic system to be sure. Many D&D books have aanywhere froma few pages to a good part of a chapter dedicated to creating magic spells as well as items.

 

Nowhere near the "guesswork" that Darque is guesisng at.

 

 

R00fles!

[Darque]

Please stop with the misinformation Volourn

 

I've got almost all the DnD books on DVD and can view them at will

 

And the only info I'm finding is EXTERMELY vague.

[Darque]

Well, there's extensive "Epic Spell Creation" bit in the Epic Level Handbook....

but in general the spell creation in D&D is not very well fleshed out.

I'll have to go digging for them.

 

But D20 is still among the best RPG systems around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is true. It has it's flaws, but it's very user friendly in my opinion.

[Volourn]

"Please stop with the misinformation Volourn

 

I've got almost all the DnD books on DVD and can view them at will

 

And the only info I'm finding is EXTERMELY vague."

 

 

You said that creating magic spells in D&D is compekte guess work. That isn't true.

 

As evdience of the this guess work..

 

In your masses of DnD books do you recall a chart which gives a reccommened amount of damage that direct damage spells should have? Reccomened saves depending on level of spell and type? The paragrahs detailing the reccommened balanced maongst the schools ie. schools like invocation should have way more spells than a school like necromancy.

 

This sure beats the information at hand with MW which basically comes down to trial and error.

 

Bottom line is that D&D has thousands of spells, and multiple ways to cast them. It crushes MW with ease, and I sure as heck aren't aware of any magic system that crushes D&D in this regard. Some that compete; but wins hands down? No.

 

D&D wins. MW loses. Game over.

[Baneblade]

"but in general the spell creation in D&D is not very well fleshed out."

 

depends on what you mean by fleshed out. Is there an entire book dedicated to the subject? No; but it sure beats what little info ther eis about MW's magic system to be sure. Many D&D books have aanywhere froma few pages to a good part of a chapter dedicated to creating magic spells as well as items.

 

Nowhere near the "guesswork" that Darque is guesisng at.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The power level of spell is never clearly defined, the level increasement of modified spells is not defined (effects of different dices, durations ect. ect.)

 

In this the Metamagic feats help a little, though.

 

If you create complitely NEW spell, the Book tells you to compare the general power and effectiveness of the spell to existing ones to determine the Spell level.

 

I'd call that "Guesswork".

[Baneblade]

In your masses of DnD books do you recall a chart which gives a reccommened amount of damage that direct damage spells should have?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Other than the table in DM's Guide page 95 which lists the Max dice pool per Spell level->

 

Single Target Multiple Targets

1st 5 dice / -

2nd 10 dice / 5 dice

3rd 10 dice / 10 dice

4th 15 dice / 10 dice

...

...

...

...

9th 25 dice / 25 dice

 

Then I don't.

[Volourn]

"Other than the table in DM's Guide page 95 which lists the Max dice pool per Spell level->

 

Single Target Multiple Targets

1st 5 dice / -

2nd 10 dice / 5 dice

3rd 10 dice / 10 dice

4th 15 dice / 10 dice

...

...

...

...

9th 25 dice / 25 dice

 

Then I don't."

 

Didn't know Darque changed user names. <_<

[EnderAndrew]

For once I completely agree with Baneblade.

 

Spell creation rules don't really exist per se. It just says you can create new spells.

 

Wonderful. How do you know what level to put a spell at? How do you balance the spell?

 

And if someone is going to try and argue tht D&D magic wins simply because there are 1700 spells, well then you lose. GURPS has more spells. Morrowind was more spells.

 

The number of spells however, does not determine the best magic system. It's a matter of how magic is handled. D&D magic is poor. The slot system is poor. The lack of balance is poor. The automatic casting with no dice is poor.

 

Magic is a means of warping the fabric of reality. That seems to get glossed over by many systems. Shadowrun and White Wolf present magic as something truly powerful, and at the same time, dangerous to the caster. A Mage isn't done for the day simply because he/she casted one spell. But any spell could be their last.

[Volourn]

"Morrowind was more spells."

 

No, it doesn't. That's a myth already proven wrong.

 

D&D also has more than 1700 spells espicially if we use the MW method of differienating spells.

 

 

"For once I completely agree with Baneblade.

 

Spell creation rules don't really exist per se. It just says you can create new spells.

 

Wonderful. How do you know what level to put a spell at? How do you balance the spell?"

 

By reading the books.

 

 

"The number of spells however, does not determine the best magic system. It's a matter of how magic is handled. D&D magic is poor. The slot system is poor. The lack of balance is poor. The automatic casting with no dice is poor."

 

Buzz. The slot system is the best system. It's the most balanced. The automatic catsing with no dice is awesome; but of course it's not always true since there ar eisnatcnes where dice do come into play. See wild mage, and wild magic as examples.

 

 

"Magic is a means of warping the fabric of reality. That seems to get glossed over by many systems. Shadowrun and White Wolf present magic as something truly powerful, and at the same time, dangerous to the caster. A Mage isn't done for the day simply because he/she casted one spell. But any spell could be their last."

 

 

D&D magic does warp the fabric of reality.

 

D&D magic is truly powerful, and it is very dangerous to the caster. I guess you've never seena caster cats fireball on himself. And, I hope you realize, that D&D has MUTLIPLE magic systems including ones where magic can outright kill the caster; but hey, continue to pretend to know something about something you actually don't.

[Darque]

"but in general the spell creation in D&D is not very well fleshed out."

 

depends on what you mean by fleshed out. Is there an entire book dedicated to the subject? No; but it sure beats what little info ther eis about MW's magic system to be sure. Many D&D books have aanywhere froma few pages to a good part of a chapter dedicated to creating magic spells as well as items.

 

Nowhere near the "guesswork" that Darque is guesisng at.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The power level of spell is never clearly defined, the level increasement of modified spells is not defined (effects of different dices, durations ect. ect.)

 

In this the Metamagic feats help a little, though.

 

If you create complitely NEW spell, the Book tells you to compare the general power and effectiveness of the spell to existing ones to determine the Spell level.

 

I'd call that "Guesswork".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I win :D

[EnderAndrew]

Volourn.

 

You're absolutely full of it.

 

I've read the books. There is no clear cut way to determine what spell goes at what level.

 

Morrowind has millions of spells. In D&D, you have 1700 spells.

 

The slot system is far from the best system. If it was the best, people wouldn't bitch about it all the time.

 

Normally, I wouldn't bother to argue with you, because you're a troll. But you're neither right nor amusing here. You're just propogating poorly founded opinions, and unfactual information.

[Llyranor]

Volourn.

 

You're absolutely full of it.

 

I've read the books.  There is no clear cut way to determine what spell goes at what level.

 

Morrowind has millions of spells.  In D&D, you have 1700 spells.

 

The slot system is far from the best system.  If it was the best, people wouldn't bitch about it all the time.

 

Normally, I wouldn't bother to argue with you, because you're a troll.  But you're neither right nor amusing here.  You're just propogating poorly founded opinions, and unfactual information.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Magical Volo IS full of it. Only, full of love and happiness!

[Darque]

I thought you were Hades' Fan

[jaguars4ever]

Damnit Hades, keep your slave under control!

[kirottu]

I agree that mana cost in morrowinds magic system wasn

[Volourn]

"Volourn.

 

You're absolutely full of it.

 

I've read the books. There is no clear cut way to determine what spell goes at what level.

 

Morrowind has millions of spells. In D&D, you have 1700 spells.

 

The slot system is far from the best system. If it was the best, people wouldn't bitch about it all the time.

 

Normally, I wouldn't bother to argue with you, because you're a troll. But you're neither right nor amusing here. You're just propogating poorly founded opinions, and unfactual information."

 

Haha. I'm the troll? Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

As has been pointed out, MW's "millions of spells" are basically the same with a minor difference. I'm just counting say "empowered fireball" as a different spell or "iceball" as pone as well. It seems only fair consideirng how you guys are desperate to pad MW's spells.

 

You obviously haven't read the books enough. I've even provided just a few examples of actual "rules" ir "guidelines" on how to make D&D spells. What's funny is that there are no real rules for MWM. You just mix and match. R00fles!

 

WOW! People complain about the slot system. First off, people complain about everything including every type of magic system. That isn't news nor does that make any system better or worse than another. Only someone acting like a troll would think toherwise. Then again, someone as full of themslves like you (and me) would actually think that makes them right. The D&D magic system is one of the few elements of the game to not really have changed over the years. tehre's a reason for that - it works; it works damn well. You can cry all you want; but it won't change the facts that D&D is one of the best; if not the best magic system out there. MW isn't even close. Neither ae most mana system.

 

You have given no factual information except your opinion, and misinformation (see MW's so called 'millions of spells'). I have actually given examples from the D&D sourcebooks which shows that crafting D&D spells is not just guesswork. There are parts of it that is guesswork; but a lot of it isn't. That's unlike MW where it's almost all guesswork since manual and even the guidebook for it (which i had foolishly bought along with MW) are rather empty in that regard.

 

Keep up the good work onc rying and being a hypocrite.

 

Remember, don't accuse others of what you are guilty of unless you are ok with being a hypocrite (I gots no problem with it; apparantly you don't either).

 

Have fun.

[213374U]

You're not a hypocrite, Volo. You're just starved for attention.

 

'R00fles!' that.

[Volourn]

"You're not a hypocrite, Volo. You're just starved for attention."

 

Yeah. Because I know what I am and don't deny it. Though; it's not attention I'm starved for (unless it's Darque's I admit ); just intelligent discussion which unfortunately is lacking on the 'net; but I never give up hope and continue to search for it!

 

 

R00fles!