Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 It might have worked for you Gromnir, but I didn't like it. I prefer the BG and PS:T's openings far more than IWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 congrats... but again, we ain't trying to convince you, so your opinion not mean much to us. lots of folks did like the iwd intro... and for good reason. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 You keep saying that but your actions say otherwise. I don't see any good reasons why they like it. I mean it was rather boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 our actions do no such thing... but we can see how somebody like you might not be able to see any other way. is folks other than hades in this thread and other folks on this board... and some of them has actually played the game. Gromnir is responding to you, but he sure ain't trying to convice you. got it? probably not. good naration and good writing coupled with quality artwork... yeah, who could possibly like such things. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Good narration can only take you so far. I rather see the events happen than being told. It draws you into the story, allows you to feel what is going on, and gives you a deeper connection. Saying "On this date, so and so did this and this happened" offers none of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Good narration can only take you so far. I rather see the events happen than being told. It draws you into the story, allows you to feel what is going on, and gives you a deeper connection. Amen to that. 'A picture speaks a thousand words.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 For example take Fellowship of the RIngs. When the Fellowship was crossing the Mines in the book there was only one or two lines narrating what they did before the balrog and gandalf squared off. While in the movie it actually showed them running, being chased, added dialog that showed us more emotion than a piece of simple narration had in the novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Good narration can only take you so far. I rather see the events happen than being told. It draws you into the story, allows you to feel what is going on, and gives you a deeper connection. Amen to that. 'A picture speaks a thousand words.' <{POST_SNAPBACK}> and yet, literature refuses to die "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 For example take Fellowship of the RIngs. When the Fellowship was crossing the Mines in the book there was only one or two lines narrating what they did before the balrog and gandalf squared off. While in the movie it actually showed them running, being chased, added dialog that showed us more emotion than a piece of simple narration had in the novel. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't forget that after Gandalf plummeted, the fellowhip mourned via 'slo-mo' and some awesome music. That was one of THE emotional moments of the film. Now the book didn't make you all misty eyed at that part, did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 and yet, literature refuses to die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 p.s. anybody here ever seen an in-game movie sequence with the production values of LotR? no? how many possible epilogue variations were there for kotor2? HA! you people is being silly to compare to LotR. how much would such movies cost? you know, is reasons why folks still read keats. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 "Because in good literature you are shown the action and not told." you not get the insanity of this continued argument? HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 and yet, literature refuses to die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I am not saying KotOR 2 should have LotR movie style quality. That would be silly. I am just saying that they could have shown the events in true CG style than simply telling us what happens. To use games the opening sequence of PS:T and BG 1 were freaking great. They drew you into the story right away and gave you a small taste of what is going on in the game. In the ending sequences of BG 1 you are shown the fall of Sarevok and the grandoise plans of Bhaal. You are shown this, not told. PS: I don't like Keats. I prefer James Welch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 "Sometimes cinematics convey emotional immersion better than words, sometimes they don't. That's why many times 'the book' is better than 'the film', or vise versa." and so ends the debate that there is something inherently better 'bout the movie sequences. we ain't saying that obsidian did a good job... but hades blanket statement is clearly nutters... especialy in light of fact that he not even play the game. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Grommie, how long have you known me on these forums? Of course it is complete nutters. What would make people think otherwise?!?! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 "Sometimes cinematics convey emotional immersion better than words, sometimes they don't. That's why many times 'the book' is better than 'the film', or vise versa." and so ends the debate that there is something inherently better 'bout the movie sequences. we ain't saying that obsidian did a good job... but hades blanket statement is clearly nutters... especialy in light of fact that he not even play the game. HA! Good Fun! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah...but are we really so certain? Sure, maybe not "inherently better", but if the alternative proves to be grossly less effective (as was the case in TSL), is is not better? If you're saying Obsidian didn't do a good job pertaining to this facet, then I agree with you Gromnir. But if by Hades "blanket statement" you mean the he thinks the 'show' medium is ALWAYS better then the 'tell', then I can't say...only he can. I was under the impression that he was merely disgusted (like many of us I might add), with the choice used by Obsidian - not the innate nature of the media itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 "Ah...but are we really so certain? Sure, maybe not "inherently better", but if the alternative proves to be grossly less effective (as was the case in TSL), is is not better?" huh? is bad reasoning there... and you know it. if the text version obsidian used in kotor2 were bad it not have any tendency to prove that cinematic sequences would be better. and yeah... hades is making an unequivocal blanket statement. he does such things... from time to time. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 LOTR cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and took the better part of 5 years to make. You expect that in a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 huh? is bad reasoning there... and you know it. if the text version obsidian used in kotor2 were bad it not have any tendency to prove that cinematic sequences would be better. Not necessarily. Of course there is no way to acertain with unequivocal certainty the purpoted quality of an end move cutscene, because it doesn't exist. Therefore to assume a cinematic sequence would automatically be worse is bad reasoning Gromnir...and you know it. However should they have chosen the cinematic approach, there would have been a high degree of probability that it would be more effective given the utter sh!tness of the dialogue approch; after all, there comes a point when one method is so terribly bad, that the alternative really can't be much worse. It was a designer choice...and sadly they chose the wrong one. and yeah... hades is making an unequivocal blanket statement. he does such things... from time to time. Surely not! If so, shame on you Doomy! I double he'll admit it though. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 "Not necessarily. " sorry, but yeah, it is necessarily a bad argument. the fact that a thing is bad or poor has no tendency to prove that an alternative would be better. sorry, but that is just basic logic. "Therefore to assume a cinematic sequence would automatically be worse is bad reasoning Gromnir" Gromnir made no such claim. *shrug* agree 'bout the "shame on you doomy," part. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Wanderer Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 LOTR cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and took the better part of 5 years to make. You expect that in a game? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You eman the part about 5 years to make a game? Haven't that happened before? Morrowind took 5 years to develop as far as I remember. I don't think they had such a budget through... Despite the fact that many people who've played KOTOR has a negative view on it, I'm still very optimistic about the Februari release and can't wait to get my paws on the game :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorwen Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Having not played the game I can't say whether I'll like the ending or not. Likely not with who is involved, but I will say this. I play a game to watch and interact with the story, I read a book to read a story, I don't play a game to read a story. That's why I hated Torment so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Having not played the game I can't say whether I'll like the ending or not. Likely not with who is involved, but I will say this. I play a game to watch and interact with the story, I read a book to read a story, I don't play a game to read a story. That's why I hated Torment so much. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah, it's because you lack good taste. *pats Sorwen on back* Don't blame yourself, you probably were born that way. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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