mastaGAW Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 The ending wasn't bad it was a begining that told that showed there was something bigger to come.
NeverwinterKnight Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 i think people are just complaining about the ending because they assumed (myself included) that it would be a cinematic ending, not just some lines of dialogue text.
NeverwinterKnight Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 im trying to be nice for new years and tone down on sarcasm. "
Ludozee Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 i think people are just complaining about the ending because they assumed (myself included) that it would be a cinematic ending, not just some lines of dialogue text. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Judge Hades Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Its always better to show us the action than just tell. Any story writer knows that. That is taught in Creative Writing 101. How could Chris forget about something line that? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I suspect they deliberately 'forgot'. <_< <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My writing teachers pounded that in my head so many times with a croquet mallet it will be something I will never forget. I am wondering what their excuse will be.
Gromnir Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 your teachers were idiots. even john gardner noted in his book, "the art of fiction," (probably the bestest how-to book we seen for young authors,) that there ain't no real hard and fast rules for writing. is any number of times where Gromnir has had a character narrate action as a recollection rather than describing as a participant observer many times. is very good reasons for doing so. example: have multiple characters recollect the same event. regardless, hades point is completely worthless in the present context. this ain't written media, but if it were, we would actually have to do the epilogue stuff much the same way it were actually done. in a book you always has to describe events through written words rather than pictures... is what separates literature from painting and sculpture and drama. besides which, the time and effort wasted to do cut-scenes for each planet and character described would necessarily have taken resources away from other stuff... so tell us what you would have sacrificed in kotor2 to get expensive cut-scene epilogues. however, we does note that we thinks that cramming the epilogue stuff into the particular scene in which it were forced, were a mistake. could of made the epilogue stuff actually epilogue and it would not have disrupted the already questionable sense o' closure. heck, coulda "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
213374U Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Gromnir wins the day. heck, coulda - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
NeverwinterKnight Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 i think people are just complaining about the ending because they assumed (myself included) that it would be a cinematic ending, not just some lines of dialogue text. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> how is that a spoiler? chris avellone even posted about it in a developer rambling thread.
Ludozee Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 i think people are just complaining about the ending because they assumed (myself included) that it would be a cinematic ending, not just some lines of dialogue text. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> how is that a spoiler? chris avellone even posted about it in a developer rambling thread. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The only thing he said was this
NeverwinterKnight Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 nothing i wrote had a spoiler about what actually happened, who said it, where it was said, what was going on as it was said, etc. i simply expanded on what chris avellone himself had stated by shooting down the notion that those who havent played it wont be seeing a cinematic. if anything, that would make sure you didnt get your hopes up about how the ending is handled.
Judge Hades Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 I never said they were hard and fast rules. In order to bring true immersion to a story you need to show the action, not dictate it to your audience. Media is media, Gromnir, may it be written, a movie, or computer game. I don't want to be told what is going on. I want to be shown. Also why sacrifice anything, just do the work and put forth the resources to get it done. Its about making a quality game instead of an average one.
Ludozee Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 if anything, that would make sure you didnt get your hopes up about how the ending is handled. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahh, but that's exactly my point. If I may refer to a previous post I made here, you'll know what I mean: From what I heard until now, because of people not carefully handling spoilers, I know a lot of things I didn't want to. This has put a considerous dent in my expectations of the game.Ever heard of Schr
NeverwinterKnight Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 yet you single out my post? did you even read this entire thread? the entire thing is about how the ending is handled.
Ludozee Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 yet you single out my post? did you even read this entire thread? the entire thing is about how the ending is handled. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, it's not specifically you, don't get me wrong. It's just when I actually read something that I didn't want to know I sometimes say something about it. I just can't keep up with everybody who posts what I would consider spoilers. And in the beginning of this thread no spoilers were involved.
Gromnir Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 "I don't want to be told what is going on. I want to be shown." did your creative WRITING teachers tell you that too? HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Judge Hades Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Gromnir, I know you are just trying to get me in a flame war, but it is not happening. You have your views and I have mine, and neither one of us are going to change the other. Let us just agree to disagree.
Laozi Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Gromnir, I know you are just trying to get me in a flame war, but it is not happening. You have your views and I have mine, and neither one of us are going to change the other. Let us just agree to disagree. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That sounds too reasondable to be unreasonable People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Gromnir Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 am just discussing... but if you has reached your limit on the issue... HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Judge Hades Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Well, Gromnir, I know you, at least your persona on the forums, and I know I will not change your mind on the subject nor should I. Just as much as you will not change my mind on the subject either. Discussing it would be an act of futility on both our parts.
Laozi Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Although I do agree with Gromnir, even though the schict gets old fast, some *teachers* have told me atleast cinematically that internal dialogue is the cheapest way to convey anything in a movie, but theres been times when I've really enjoy movies that consisted mostly of it People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Judge Hades Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Well, there are always exceptions to the rules in nearly all cases.
Gromnir Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 am confused. Gromnir is not trying to convince you of anything. why would you think we were trying to convince you of something? am simply pointing out to folks that hades, who has not played game, is applying a non-rule to a non-conforming media to judge the validity of a developer design choice. *shrug* as were pointed out by Gromnir already, the iwd intro narrative worked quite well... and we see no reason why such an approach could not have worked in kotor2. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Morgoth Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Well, I always thought that story telling that encourages your brain activities and let your phantasy plays some parts is more interesting than, let's just say, story telling that throws all in front of your screen and don't offer me the option to actually interpret it how I want it (and not being forced by the story teller how I should interpret it)... if you can follow me. Anyway, that's probably the reason why I loved PS: Torment so much, and most probably why I'll love Kotor2 too... Rain makes everything better.
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