Revan or The Exile

[Darth Barth]

They also said you weren't a jedi - you were a "Cipher," in fact.

 

Although perhaps you did something special.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think we are arguing semantics for the most part

 

But the question is what makes a Jedi? Sanction by the Jedi Order, or actions that follow the Jedi code at the disproval of the Order?

[nightcleaver]

He said that the Exile was a powerful Jedi, too. Maria said he wasn't jedi, and I concurred, and that was in referrence to his power. I agree that a Jedi is made by his actions... but he can't be called a Jedi without the Force. I think they were talking about what he was, the nature of his power, rather than the nature of his actions - they were approving of his actions so far, but saw in him horrible potential... although they didn't understand that that potential could be used for good.

[Darth Ni]

How about force user then? Revan and the Exile are both powerful force users.

[Darth Desann]

I liked Revan more, especially due to the backstory about Revan given in K2.

He was obviously more calculating an manipulative than he seemed in K1.

 

 

If you listen carefully, Revan went to war with the Mandalorians, not to save the Republic, but to create more followers and twist the Jedi who followed him to the dark side.

[Epiphany]

For story, Revan...

 

For power and all, I'll go with the Exile - no lvl cap (w00t)

[Ulicus]

For story, Revan...

 

For power and all, I'll go with the Exile - no lvl cap  (w00t)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To twist Obi-Wan's quote...

 

Who is the more powerful? Revan or the fool who follows him?

 

Which is actually my question: which is more powerful? Or rather, who do you think will be the most powerful once they've "peaked" so to speak?

[Darth Desann]

Revan, without a level cap, would be far stronger (actually just as strong, depending on how you play) as Exile...and he is far more calculating and cunning than Exile...he would be a far more dangerous opponent, LS or DS.

[Ulicus]

Revan, without a level cap, would be far stronger (actually just as strong, depending on how you play) as Exile...and he is far more calculating and cunning than Exile...he would be a far more dangerous opponent, LS or DS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

<_<

 

Well, yeah, but I was talking in terms of story- it's pretty easy to figure out that since it's a game you can make the character to be anything you want.

 

Here is a comparison: Throughout KotOR 1 they go on how strong Revan is in the Force, yet if you play a guardian with 8 Wis and 8 Cha your Force point total is crap.

 

Therefore- gameplay wise, your Revan isn't that strong in the Force

 

Storywise- He is immensely strong in the Force

 

You see where I'm going with this?

 

So I want to know GAMEPLAY ASIDE who people think will be the most powerful in the end. After all, Palpatine didn't say to Anakin, "I see you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi because you don't have a level cap" did he?

[Darth Ni]

Look at all the things Revan has done:

 

He saved the galaxy from the Mandalorian conquest and commanded 1/3rd of the republic fleet at the end of the war

 

He sought out the starforge on his own (because Malak was a dumbass)... Twice

 

He then became the Dark Lord of the Sith and could've pretty much taken over the entire galaxy

 

He survived some type of serious wound on the bridge of his flagship

 

Even though he had a mindwipe (which took the entire jedi council to do), he still had traces of his past life and still discovered he was the Dark Lord (that shows remarkable strength of will)

 

He defeated Bastila in a lightsaber duel even when she called upon the power of the starforge 3 times during the conflict... (LS ending not DS ending)

 

He defeated the dark lord of the Sith all on his own even though Malak was fighting like a cheapass being able to call upon the power of 8 jedi

 

What the exile do?

 

He got exiled... and on top of that, he didn't even keep up with the news.

[Ulicus]

Look at all the things Revan has done:

 

He saved the galaxy from the Mandalorian conquest and commanded 1/3rd of the republic fleet at the end of the war

 

He sought out the starforge on his own (because Malak was a dumbass)... Twice

 

He then became the Dark Lord of the Sith and could've pretty much taken over the entire galaxy

 

He survived some type of serious wound on the bridge of his flagship

 

Even though he had a mindwipe (which took the entire jedi council to do), he still had traces of his past life and still discovered he was the Dark Lord (that shows remarkable strength of will)

 

He defeated Bastila in a lightsaber duel even when she called upon the power of the starforge 3 times during the conflict... (LS ending not DS ending)

 

He defeated the dark lord of the Sith all on his own even though Malak was fighting like a cheapass being able to call upon the power of 8 jedi

 

What the exile do?

 

He got exiled... and on top of that, he didn't even keep up with the news.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Missed my point (sorry- not trying to be confrontational, just saying)

 

I know that everything he has done makes Revan more powerful than the Exile *at the moment* but,

given the Exile's different nature in regards to the Force

will the Exile surpass him? Or will Revan always remain more powerful?

 

Personally I hope they make Revan a kind of "legendary journeyman" figure throughout the KotOR series, one that the player characters are always two steps behind (in terms of knowledge AND power).

 

Kind of like Sephiroth in FFVII (except good if he's good obviously). So, if he's bad- he becomes this kind of evil bogeyman that the galaxy fears, never knowing where he's going to strike. If he's good, it's like whenever he appears it's like a miracle, he saves the day and disappears once again. Basically, Revan would become this almost mythological character in the Universe... like, King Arthur is thought of today in Britain.

 

So millenia hence, people will think that Revan was imaginary, or many men mixed together over the years- or that he was just an icon as opposed to a real being.

 

Then again, I'm the person who thinks that Yoda should say about Anakin in Episode III:

 

"Never one so strong has there been, not since Revan's time"

 

That would be *sweet* and would personally make me denote my life's savings to George Lucas. Well, maybe I wouldn't go that far.

 

*sigh*

[junior]

Revan is supreme when it comes to tactics and strategy. This is made clear at various points in the game when people talk about just how far ahead Revan may have been thinking during the Mandalorian campaign.

 

In raw power of the Force, I suspect that the Exile will eventually surpass him. This is largely because of what we learn about how the Exile gained so much Force power so quickly. There may, in fact, not be a finite limit to how powerful the Exile can become.

[Darth Ni]

I see your point Ulicus but Revan's power is also growing. Ofcourse, Revan may not be progressing at the same rate the Exile is...

 

Not to digress from the topic here but Revan and the Exile seem like the U.S. and China.

 

During the early 19th century, the U.S. was far from a world superpower. This can be compared to Revan's childhood. After the civil war, the country experienced a state of unprecedented growth with Industrial production increasing exponentially and great improvements in technology. This can be compared to when Revan is fighting in the Mandalorian wars and his power growing by leaps and bounds. Over the course of 200 years, the U.S. had established itself as an industrial, economic and military power.

 

In China in the 19th century, they suffered a humiliating defeat during the Opium Wars. This can be compared to the Exile's exile (pardon the pun) from the Jedi order. China's situation gradually worsened as during the early 20th century, it had been invaded by almost every major power and had suffered another devastating blow at the hands of the Japanese. However, in 1949 after the communists took power, China gradually began to establish itself as a world power. With the U.S.S.R's help, it had bolstered its military might and after the economic reforms introduced by Deng Xiaoping in the 1970s, its economic might began to grow. The U.S.S.R. could be compared to Kreia helping the Exile develop his powers. Also, Deng's Economic Reforms could also hint the Exile's growing power.

 

*NOTE* I am just giving examples here. I know many people on this forum think the U.S.S.R. and the PRC weren't exactly the best things to happen to the world but the scenario (when you take away the politics) looks similar to the scenario in KotOR II. It just seems similar. The U.S.S.R. certainly wasn't a friendly or humble nation that wanted to help because they felt that they were morally inclined to do so. Neither was the PRC and it was responsible for the invasion of 9 countries so as I said, LEAVE THE POLITICAL RELATIONS AND POLICIES OF THESE COUNTRIES OUT OF IT.

 

Both countries are very powerful no doubt China is always a step behind the U.S. China may in the future overtake the U.S. as the dominant power the sameway the Exile as you say may overtake Revan.

[The Yeti of 66]

I like Revan a lot more. He was a tactical genius and was still very powerful. I think the exile will eventually become stronger, but he won't be able to win. Revan is smarter. It would be like Vader vs. Anakin. (I know they are the same person, but just bear with me)

 

Even though Anakin was clearly stronger before the suit, but Vader would win because he is smarter.

 

Except that is not a good example, since Revan and the Exile are pretty much equal in power, so the brains would very easily win then.

[Darth Rellik]

You weren't forced to kill kreia... she died.  The only thing that kept her own her feet was that you needed her.  She wouldn't let you save her... and let herself die instead.

 

I think it's pretty well implied that t3 knows where Revan went... and if whatever was in the nav computer was found, it would mean he is found.  And Revan doesn't want to be found.

 

The fact that you didn't get DS points for killing the Jedi masters... I don't get that, myself.  You didn't?  Weird.

 

The thing with the Remote and Goto was a little random... but droids don't have to get destroyed by an emp shock, just knocked out for a bit.  It was a little out of place, though.

 

 

 

That said... I liked the exile better.  I'm more interested in what happens to him, simply because his situation is a bit more complicated and unresolved.  Revan had no established relationship, (K1 spoiler)

except that Vrook didn't like him.

  I would've expected the final confrontation with malak to be detailed, but it wasn't.  The backstory of Revan's relationship to HIS party members was a little better done, but I don't know.  I just like the Exile better, and I have more a sense of personality from him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree, the exile's story is more interesting, however, Revan's plot twist was much better than anything in kotor 2

[mastaGAW]

The Exile his story was more interesting. I like the stlye of storytelling about the Exile better than Revan because the galaxy doesn't revolve around you, but back on topic The Exile is better. Revan I believe is more powerful and well known than The Exile but The Exile's unique gift in relation to the force gives him the upper hand.

 

PS: Darth Rellik I do believe KOTOR was a good game but in my opinion KOTOR2 had more good twists in it because the story was more of a mystery than in the original in which everything in the story was more straightforward.

[nightcleaver]

As charismatic as Revan was, it sounds like the Exile was, perhaps, even more charismatic, even if he wasn't as balanced or as good a leader, and not as cunning a strategist.

 

I don't think the Exile will keep that gift of his. Remembering Nihilus, it sounds like the Exile would have to keep slaughtering people in order to grow or maintain his power. I also think Revan might have some of that power to "feed" as well, and that on top of Revan's superior intellect (as long as he manages to get it back after the memory wipe) would, I think, mean that Revan was the superior of the two. But I think the Exile would be the best possible choice Revan could make for a number two, along with Bastila (Battle Meditation), of course.

 

Although I was sort of thinking that maybe there are two kinds of Force-connection, and that Bastila had the same, or something very similar to, what the Exile had. But I'm going to go start a new thread about that...

[Oberon]

If I had to pick, I would pick Revan. Their history or story really has nothing to do with it either. They both had fairly interesting histories that were both complex and enjoyable, but I wasn't to keen on the whole feeding concept of the Exile. Now sure it is probably quite powerful, and an interesting concept that provided something new to the Star Wars realm that I don't think has ever been touched before. But, I prefer my good old fashioned force user Revan appeard to be.

[cewekeds]

Remember the Exile is strong because (s)he doesn't need the force. If (s)he master the feeding then he can drain Raven of the force. (w00t) The only probelm I see is HK 47 would kill the Exile once Raven was found.

[SoulSwindler]

Revan...rallied the Jedi and Republic...won a war..turned a vast number of Jedi to the darkside...ruled the Sith...had his mind wiped...rebuilt his mind from scratch and still bested the reigning darklord.

[cewekeds]

How many Jedi followed Raven in the first place because of the exile? What would have happen in the exile was still able to have those bonds after the war would Raven turn so many Jedis. Would revan follow the Exile after the war if there was still had a force bond?

[Oberon]

If I recall it was the Exile who followed Revan. In fact he couldn't even form the bonds until after war. It was becuase of the events of the war that he became able to form the bonds due to his need to shut out the force from inside himself.

[cewekeds]

I thought that was reason way he got Exile in the first place was because it was easy for him to form force bonds.

The masters thought that the echo was part of the darkside and the Exile would lead others to Follow raven. reason for the exile after the war the lost the force you know the real reason.No longer able to make the bonds until we start playing the Exile again. Also the reason why the try to disconnect you from the force. Because the believed you made bonds with they sith lords and making them stronger..

[Darth Desann]

The thing is, it seems that the Exiles ability to bond with people is the only thing that saved him from falling to the dark side. Revan used places of slaughter (which become tainted by the dark side) to turn jedi to the dark side. Places like Malachor V. However, the echos of those killed were so great that it completely blocked the Exiles ability to hear the force (lightside or darkside). So this saved him from Revan. Only now, the Exile can once again hear the force and is reconnected. Revan can once again use what he did to the Jedi to twist and bind the Exile to his will (if he sees fit)...the exile will no longer be able to protect himself from that. Also, I think in order to surpass Revan, he would actually have to kill enough people to equal Revans power (and it would have to be powerful people...not the a large number of average people) . Reason is that even Nihilus finds the non-force sensitives useless...he has to feed on those connected to the force (thats why Visas's homeworld was a good target). Exile would have to feed on a ****load of people to keep pace with Revan. Considering Malak is dead there really isnt anyone who could feed enough power to keep pace with Revans growth in Power. Remember, Malak (despite how easy he was) was more powerful than Sion, Nihilus, and Treya. He was the dark lord and they were obviously not powerful enough to dethrone him, or they would have...so if he could keep them all in check, and Revan so easily defeated Malak...I think Exile would not be able to keep up with him.

[Exar_Kun]

The thing is, it seems that the Exiles ability to bond with people is the only thing that saved him from falling to the dark side.  Revan used places of slaughter (which become tainted by the dark side) to turn jedi to the dark side.  Places like Malachor V.  However, the echos of those killed were so great that it completely blocked the Exiles ability to hear the force (lightside or darkside).  So this saved him from Revan.  Only now, the Exile can once again hear the force and is reconnected.  Revan can once again use what he did to the Jedi to twist and bind the Exile to his will (if he sees fit)...the exile will no longer be able to protect himself from that.  Also, I think in order to surpass Revan, he would actually have to kill enough people to equal Revans power (and it would have to be powerful people...not the a large number of average people) .  Reason is that even Nihilus finds the non-force sensitives useless...he has to feed on those connected to the force (thats why Visas's homeworld was a good target).  Exile would have to feed on a ****load of people to keep pace with Revan.  Considering Malak is dead there really isnt anyone who could feed enough power to keep pace with Revans growth in Power.  Remember, Malak (despite how easy he was) was more powerful than Sion, Nihilus, and Treya.  He was the dark lord and they were obviously not powerful enough to dethrone him, or they would have...so if he could keep them all in check, and Revan so easily defeated Malak...I think Exile would not be able to keep up with him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think the Exile would wipe the floor with all of 'em. He's already beaten Nihilus, Sion, and Kreia. Remember,

at the end of the game Darth Traya states that the Exile is the greatest and most powerful student she has ever had

. Thus making him stronger than Revan, and also stronger than Malak who was known to be weaker than Revan.

 

But I have a question about the Exile's powers. What was the significance of the Exile

absorbing the Jedi Master's powers

? This didn't make sense to me since we learn that the exile lost his connection to the force

by his own will rather than that of the Council

.

[mastaGAW]

Sion was more powerful than Malak because without actually having the Star Forge by him he could continously feed of the force and keep himself alive. The reason Kreia didn't challenge Malak is because if you read the chronicles she didn't become a Sith Lord until after the Jedi Civil War and that wasn't her purpose to be a Dark Lord of the Sith she was a teacher that guided others at Malachor and was really good because she wanted balance in the galaxy. She didn't want the darkside to get too powerful and be unchecked nor the so called "lightside" jedi and their corrupted philosophies to be unchecked. So she tried to use you to destroy both. If she had found a way to eliminate the force they wouldn't have to worry about that in the first place. She wanted the galaxy to stand alone without dependence on the force and its will.