Filling in the plot holes at the end...

[iceman879]

I confesss, I skipped most of the posts after the first 120. But even at that point, I started seeing a lot of repetition, so obviously very few are reading through this whole post to give their 2 cents and ask their questions. So here's mine. :D

 

I've finished the game twice: once LS, once DS.

 

 

First of all is the situation on Telos. First time I played through DS, and heldped Czerka corp take over the restoration (or undermine it perhaps). Knowing full well the planet needed fuel, I still negotiated with the Hutt to get fuel for Telos. When i return to Telos: nothing. Not a thank you for setting up the fuel deal. Nadda.

 

Play through LS. Help the Ithorians. Set up the fuel deal. Again. Nothing. No mention that Telos will be OK thanks to the new fuel deal.

 

I got ZERO information as a DS character. In KOTOR the characters side plots were triggered by events regardless of your LS/DS status. If you used them outside the ship and talked to them, you could trigger events as the game progressed. Here you've got some influence system that characters clam up until you gain influence?

 

I like many others seem to be lacking in the influence dept, especially as a DS character. Atton totally shuts down on you when you go DS and getting him to talk about anything but Pazzak is like pulling teeth.

 

The Handmaden and Visas Marr seems to be the only ones easy to gain influence with. Regardless of DS/LS. But I guess that's all the topic of another thread.

 

I do think there's probably many clues, especially with Kreia who proved quite frustrating to figure out the proper responses to get influence with. I think she knows alot more than she's telling. But there in is another problem. It seems Kreia tells more lies to manipulate than truths. I had her pegged as a Sith from the first time I played the game. She survived an encounter with a Sith Lord and only lost a hand. BS!!! She was playing me from the moment we met. I knew that the whole game. No big shock there.

 

The Jedi Masters. Very Satisfying as DS. Not so as LS. Revan was redeemed in KOTOR. Why are they so unwilling to accept me back? As pure LS, everyone else can sense it in me, why can't the Jedi Masters? I don't buy this BS about me being the threat. It's never me. It's Kreia that's the real threat. I'm willing to submit to the Council's decision. I don't agree but playing LS, I've been saying "I should have trusted in the Council's Wisdom." Then I'm faced with a new situation that I don't think they're doing the right thing, but I agree to it because "I trust their wisdom"

 

It's just totally unsatisfactory. If my powers must be bond, then deal with it AFTER the threat of the sith has been dealt with.

 

 

I was dissapointed at the overall treatment of my character. You would think that if the Jedi had fallen on such hard times, and if you're playing LS, they'd more readily welcome you with open arms. Instead they demean you at every turn. It seems to me that the Jedi truly are dead. At least two of the four Jedi you encounter treat you with extreme disdain, even if you are a LS.

 

Atris. No shock there. Again I sensed there was somthing wrong in her when I played through the first time. Again this is much easier to see DS. You can really draw out her anger by taking the DS responses when talking to her the first time. She even brings out your old lightsaber, that she's kept. I didn't have the guts to demand she give it to me though seeing as how I was unarmed. Maybe next time through I'll have to try that.

 

Then there's Vrook. This man is mean as he was in KOTOR. He is no Jedi. I find it hard to believe he "allowed" himself to be captured. Again. BS!!! How was he going to protect the people on Dantooine from the attack inside a force caged?

 

The Jedi on Nar Shadda. Again a pathetic excuse for a Jedi. He allowed millions on that planet to suffer, and didn't lift a finger to help anyone until I showed up on the planet. C'mon a Jedi's life is sacrifice. He couldn't help a stuck merchant get off the planet? Couldn't help a pilot find work?

 

The Jedi on Onderon was the only respectable one, but on Dantooine, it seems he had no influence. I think the whole meeting and idea to strip me of force powers was Vrook's idea. The others just said "Ok".

 

 

DS overall isn't as satisfying in this game. In Kotor, dark side was clear, easy to decieve people, and you knew that by defeating Malak the Galaxy would be yours to rule with the beatiful Bastila at your side. :D

 

In this game, it's all deception. There is no clear cut path to ruling the galaxy. That's enough to make it frustrating for anyone that enjoyed DS in KOTOR.

 

But then again, I reckon that you have killed off all KNOWN Jedi and Sith. That leaves just you and your apprentices. As DS, the galaxy is yours to rule, unless you're foolish enough to follow Revan on some "foolistic crusade". ROFLMA.

[Msxyz]

While many people find the final confrontation with Kreia an interesting spin in the plot, it was by far too obvious. The fact that there are dialogues from a possible final confrotnation with Atris makes me believe that originally LS should have faced her.

 

The jedi council decision of stripping again the exile of the force might be better explained if behind it there was Atris tricking the remaining jedis into thinking the exile was a threat. Don't forget that, during the first encounter, she asks the exile to reunite all the remaining jedis on Dantooine.

 

I too agree with Boiler comments about TSL being a collection of potentially good story elements packed together with little attention to the overall result.

[witchzenka]

I may have a different impression of Sion than others do...

First - background on my perspective is that I have experience with people who have survived abuse. So, I see similarities in Sion's behavior to other incidences I've seen.

I see a sort of complicated relationship with Kreia. He doesn't kill her on one hand because (I believe) he wants her to suffer. If you play a male Exile he mentions wanting to throw your corpse at her feet, it would be like killing her children. He also says (male or female) that he wants her to die with all she has built in shards at her feet - saying he wants her completely destroyed on every level before he kills her. On the other hand, it certainly seems possible that because of his relationship/feelings about Kreia he simply cannot kill her, that she possesses such a hold over his thoughts and feelings that he cannot destroy her directly however he may wish to.

Like many abuse survivors - even as he hates her he craves her approval - resulting in a devouring jealousy of the male Exile, who has her approval. His relationship with the female Exile is a bit different - he is protective, in his own sick way.

I do think he wasn't used enough to explore all that, though.

[witchzenka]

Whoops - sorry to double post, but I wanted to talk about the Jedi Council. First, I think they had to be destroyed, only because their arrogance had led to the fall of Reven and Malak and all the Jedi who followed them in the first place, yet they could not admit this in an open and honest fashion and set things right.

The new Jedi - your companions - have faced the dark side head on and do not have that same sense of "I am Jedi, therefore I am always right" that the Council did. Though I understand their fear of the Exile and what s/he represents - instead of trying to help the Exile or learn more about him/her (and thus about Nihilus, at the very least), they follow a sort of knee-jerk reaction to end the Exile's connection to the Force.

[Leia Emperius]

The Jedi Masters. Very Satisfying as DS. Not so as LS. Revan was redeemed in KOTOR. Why are they so unwilling to accept me back? As pure LS, everyone else can sense it in me, why can't the Jedi Masters? I don't buy this BS about me being the threat. It's never me. It's Kreia that's the real threat. I'm willing to submit to the Council's decision. I don't agree but playing LS, I've been saying "I should have trusted in the Council's Wisdom." Then I'm faced with a new situation that I don't think they're doing the right thing, but I agree to it because "I trust their wisdom"

 

It's just totally unsatisfactory. If my powers must be bond, then deal with it AFTER the threat of the sith has been dealt with.

Although I had some trouble completely understanding it at first, I found this exchange to be one of the most powerful in the game. Here you have yourself as the Exile and if you're following the path of the light, you've been graciously helping others throughout the galaxy whilst attempting to reunite the Jedi Masters. You think you're doing a good job, that your efforts will be appreciated, and that you're acting as an example of what the Jedi can once more become. So you bring the remaining masters together on Dantooine and listen to their counsel. Then they hit you with the "truth" of your condition, and I don't know about anyone else, but I pretty much sat there in horror while I listened to them discuss me as a "wound in the force". The fact that you've been proclaiming your trust in the Council's wisdom seems to insist that you would be shocked at their decision to exile you once more...but you concede to their wishes anyway, for the greater good.

 

Anyway I'm rambling, basically I watched myself fall to the ground like a crumpled little figure, continuing to lie there unconscious while Kreia condemned the Masters for what they tried to do to me. It's a smack in the face to all of them that they almost ruined their last hope, and seems to emphasize that you really were the last true Jedi as the others have become blinded to the way a Jedi should behave.

[Torias]

Yeah, the ending totally sucked.

 

One (maybe the only?) thing I did like, was the twist on "The Lost Jedi" that you are supposed to spend the game finding.

 

Turns out the lost jedi weren't the jedi masters you were traveling from planet to planet to get, but they were atton, mira, handmaiden / disciple, baro-dur...

 

By finding and training them, you've done more to ensure the continuation of the jedi than the masters have...

 

 

apart from that, the ending is a great big WTF.

 

I'm 3/4 through my third play through (up to the sith temple on duxn).. I'll finish it... but meh.

 

After that, I wont touch it again unless some mod group manages to implement the end game content (and the hk factory ).