Screw the reviewers

[Volourn]

Yeah, screw the reviewers. You know, those reviewers who spammed 85%+ ratings for KOTOR2. Geez, they really did a good job bashing KOTOR2. R00fles! Whatever.

[PrincessSarah]

I think they were talking about all the people basically whining and bitching about the game, not the actual game reviewers.

[Epiphany]

The influence system alone makes KOTOR 2 a new game. In KOTOR, whether you went LS or DS meant next to nothing, aside from being a goody goody or a bully.

 

Now in KOTOR 2, you can gain influence with your party members and turn them into your puppets if you wish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you played the game? The influence system is broken... horribly. You can't influence them to the dark side, nor can you change anything about them except their appearance on the character sheet screen and the picture of them in the HUD. If you turn light to the dark, the character still whines when you do evil things. So it still means next to nothing except being a "goody goody or a bully".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I influenced one of my party members to go Dark. And when I killed random innocent NPC's, he didn't whine, he agreed with what we had done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

sure thing

 

I brought my entire party to the final battle as well, and we all sat around the force fire roasting darkside marshmellows and drinking lightside mountain dew.

[PrincessSarah]

I kept gaining influence with Atton. Eventually, Atton would say "Glad we got the drop on them" when I was running around killing refugees on Nar Shadda. Finally, I got Atton to become a Jedi, told him to use all the hatred he had felt from the war as his power, and voila! Dark Side Atton.

[EnderAndrew]

If you can't figure out how to turn people, I'm sorry. But I've witnessed the influence system in action and it works great.

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=27280&hl=

[Epiphany]

I kept gaining influence with Atton. Eventually, Atton would say "Glad we got the drop on them" when I was running around killing refugees on Nar Shadda. Finally, I got Atton to become a Jedi, told him to use all the hatred he had felt from the war as his power, and voila! Dark Side Atton.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Um... Not to blow your pants off or anything, but he was naturally that way. Do you not recall that if you slaughter innocent people on Telos he doesn't complain unless you're rude to him, then he just says "Tell me next time, so I'm not surprised". He was Sith, afterall...

Try it with the Handmaiden, Bao-Dur, or Mira. Or, for that matter, try it with Visas, HK or Hanharr while doing "goody goody" stuff. They don't let go of their default personalities. Only their picture and character display change.

[EnderAndrew]

You were expecting them to completely ditch their personality? Even if you twist their morals, they're still individuals with an entire lives worth of memories and experiences.

 

They're not sheep. They're not automatons. Often, these are strong willed people.

 

Are you saying that you expect every NPC to simply mimic your behavior? Where is the fun in that?

 

The entire purpose of having NPCs is so their invidual personalities play upon the story. And you're complaining about that.

[Epiphany]

If you can't figure out how to turn people, I'm sorry.  But I've witnessed the influence system in action and it works great.

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=27280&hl=

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One flaw with your "revelation"... You can't lie to your party members while working on influence tree options, you can only kiss their ass and gain lightside points, or shove your first in their gut and gain darkside points. Some characters like the fist, others don't. I've had the Handmaiden just a few pixels away from utter DS, but she's still the same character, as with T3 and Bao-Dur.

 

Even VISAS has certain influence points that can only be gained by kissing her feet and gaining LS points. All they needed was a "lie" option during ALL dialog. That would have allowed Sith Lords to manipulate their allies. Just make the characters have high stats to allow for more balanced gameplay. If you want to spend your time manipulating your allies, then you're going to give up another skill due to the # of points you have to spend in persuade. I would have loved to lie to the Handmaiden, instead, I had to gain my influence through combat w/ her, and then kiss her feet and running out and killing lots of people while she waited on the ship so I could maintain my "Dark Mastery" bonus. It was a pain in the ass to play the kind of character I wanted to, when everytime I tried to manipulate, I went all "good".

[PrincessSarah]

I'm sorry, but a few measly LS points won't hurt. There's plenty of opportunities to gain DS points to make up for the LS points.

[EnderAndrew]

Epiphany,

 

My last post was a little harsh. And I didn't mean that as a personal attack on you. However, I really think that people are missing what this system is all about.

 

Look at Palpatine. He acts generous. He acts kind. But he is a Sith Lord.

 

Look at Obi-Wan in Episode 1. He had no compassion for the Gungangs, yet he is a Jedi Knight.

 

Looks can be deceiving. Someones a small act of kindness is actually just a lead-in for a greater act of betrayal or corruption.

 

And there are TONS of LS or DS points to be earned.

[Epiphany]

You were expecting them to completely ditch their personality?  Even if you twist their morals, they're still individuals with an entire lives worth of memories and experiences.

 

They're not sheep.  They're not automatons.  Often, these are strong willed people.

 

Are you saying that you expect every NPC to simply mimic your behavior?  Where is the fun in that?

 

The entire purpose of having NPCs is so their invidual personalities play upon the story.  And you're complaining about that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You need to read the posts before coming to someones defense. Check out the first post I made regarding influence, and what it was in response to...

 

"Making people your puppets". It's not possible, because the influence system IS broken. Where did I say I wanted people to "mimic my behavior"? All I said was, if you influence someone to such a degree that they follow the DARK path, then they should let go of their love of flowers and bunnies and embrace anger and hatred. That is, afterall, two key ingredients to the dark side. You're missing the entire point here. She said the influence system changed the game and that you could make people your puppets. It did not change the game, and you cannot make people puppets. The *only* thing it does it change their picture and avatar on the character sheet. (w00t)

[Volourn]

"One flaw with your "revelation"... You can't lie to your party members while working on influence tree options, you can only kiss their ass and gain lightside points, or shove your first in their gut and gain darkside points."

 

Yeah, this seems lame to me. The player doens't influence the npcs; but the npcs influence the PC. However, influence was supposdly going to work the other way.

 

I mean, seriously, if someone was being a jerk to me I wouldn't eventually become "darkside" nor if I was a "badas" someone sweettalking me wouldn't make me good either. It seems so lame in its simplicity.

 

"Hey, jerk off, you loser! - Gain DS point - NPC now turning dark because he was called a jerk and a loser.

 

R00fles!

 

 

 

 

"I'm sorry, but a few measly LS points won't hurt. There's plenty of opportunities to gain DS points to make up for the LS points."

 

That's right. To make someone go dark you have to be nice to them. That's also pretty lame.

 

"You are nice, dawg."

 

The Darksider gains LS point and the "nice' eprson has become more evil.

 

Hahaha.

 

There is no logic at all seemingly at work in the 'Influence System'.

[EnderAndrew]

Well, I've personally witnessed characters being twisted to do things they'd never do before. I've witnessed people being driven to acts far from their normal behavior.

 

That's making someone a puppet in my book.

 

What more were you really looking for?

[Epiphany]

Epiphany,

 

My last post was a little harsh.  And I didn't mean that as a personal attack on you.  However, I really think that people are missing what this system is all about.

 

Look at Palpatine.  He acts generous.  He acts kind.  But he is a Sith Lord.

 

Look at Obi-Wan in Episode 1.  He had no compassion for the Gungangs, yet he is a Jedi Knight.

 

Looks can be deceiving.  Someones a small act of kindness is actually just a lead-in for a greater act of betrayal or corruption.

 

And there are TONS of LS or DS points to be earned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Palpatine is lieing to everyone, because the darkside clouds what the Jedi Masters can see. You can't lie, he's not gaining "light side" points by being "nice" to people, he's lieing, gaining MORE DS points and making people THINK he's a wonderful person. Come on, you can't be that bias, that you honestly believe that if the movies were this game, he'd be jumping up and down the LS/DS scale.

 

To both of you:

I know there are lots of LS/DS points, but the fact of the matter is this... I shouldn't have to run out and do evil things because the game FORCES me to be nice in order to fool myself into thinking I'm lieing. I want to lie as a character. I wanted to manipulate my crew into thinking I cared for them, their feelings and their past, when my ultimate goal was just to bring them down my path. Instead, I had to actually CARE for them inorder for that to happen, which them gives you another issue to face. You have to potentially do out of character things inorder to make up for the LS points you gained because the game didn't present you with a "persuade/lie" option during your butt kissing session between each planet.

[Epiphany]

Well, I've personally witnessed characters being twisted to do things they'd never do before.  I've witnessed people being driven to acts far from their normal behavior.

 

That's making someone a puppet in my book.

 

What more were you really looking for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm sure you've witnessed Atton, just like the other poster. News flash, his personality allows for it, as is evident on Telos if you just start killing people.

There's no "puppet" in that.

 

What more was I looking for? A real influence system, where I could lie my way to their heart if I so desired.

[Volourn]

"What more were you really looking for?"

 

More realism in the system. When influencing people into doing what you want them to do you tend to make them believe what you say is true - you don't actually believe it.

 

So, the dark side, you try to convince them the LS is for the weak of heart and cowards not the brave and honourable. For the LS, you'd try to convince them that the DS only ends up hurting you.

 

Telling someone - anyone - that they are a moron will not make them see things your way. Period. Ever.

 

Telling someone that are cool will make them like you; but it will not make them become 'bad" either.

 

Very lame.

 

 

Heck, the way E2 handles Anakins starting descent to the DS is a lot better than what KOTOR2 does and it gets a lot of flak. But, at least there is a reason for Anakin's future fall - anger and hatred; not just because someone called him a bad name.

 

R00fles!

[Epiphany]

Heck, the way E2 handles Anakins starting descent to the DS is a lot better than what KOTOR2 does and it gets a lot of flak. But, at least there is a reason for Anakin's future fall - anger and hatred; not just because someone called him a bad name.

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Look what Sidious was doing to him as well. Filling his head with "greatest Jedi" and such. Do the other two actually believe he was gaining "LS points" when doing this? He was playing Anakin, manipulating him to the DARK SIDE, he sure as hell wasn't gaining any goody goody points for it.

[LordRaven]

With all the bad acting that was going on in the new movies it is hard to tell what everyone is trying to do. Like the part where Anakin tells Padme about all the sand people he slaughters it seems more like he is slipping to the whiny side of the force and not the dark side.

[bodrock]

With all the bad acting that was going on in the new movies it is hard to tell what everyone is trying to do. Like the part where Anakin tells Padme about all the sand people he slaughters it seems more like he is slipping to the whiny side of the force and not the dark side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL (w00t)

 

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, Obsidian. I think the Influence system is great -- the only person I have been set on getting to know my first playthrough is Handmaiden, and let me tell you, she talks alot. And as far as being a lightsider goes, she has surpassed me! But I can tell I have a positive affect on my other followers as well, switching them in to get their take on certain events, etc.....

 

The Influence system isn't perfect, but it's a great addition that I hope to see bolstered in a KOTOR3! In the original KOTOR, the only way to get a really good Dark Side endgame bonus-scene was to not only be nice to Carth and make him fall in love with you, but to save his son as well. Now, as a Dark Sider, I personally gave no quarter, but in retrospect, I would have to "fake it" to see Carth dead.