Why not get a degree?

[Hunter]

I'm just asking because I see many posts asking if a degree is necessary for getting into the gaming industry. Getting in isn't the easiest thing, and a degree couldn't hurt. So if you don't mind humoring me ...Why don't you want to get a degree?

[Guaigean]

Um, no options for "I get my degree in May" so I guess that leaves me out of the vote.

[Hunter]

Um, no options for "I get my degree in May" so I guess that leaves me out of the vote.

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I knew I was leaving something out

I made the poll mostly because I see in so many different places people asking if a degree is really necessary. Since a degree can't really hurt your chances, I'm curious as to what the resistance is.

 

I personally dropped out near finishing for an opportunity to get into the industry. I later finished while working.

[Jason Attard]

Thought up another possible reason for not getting a degree - If you've already got the equivalent in relevant work experience.

 

I also think it would be interesting to add "I've got my degree" and "I'm planning to get a degree" choices to the poll, just to see how overwhealming degrees are in the industry.

 

I personally wouldn't dream of applying to a game job without a degree these days. I got mine well before I got into the industry. I've got one friend who got in without a degree, but he had been working in the software industry since grade 11 and had tons of bleeding-edge graphics programming experience.

 

 

Jason Attard

Technical Designer, Secret Project

BioWare Corp.

[B5C]

A Degree is needed for any job. A degree shows employers that you will work hard for success. Also it gives the employer proof that you have the knowlege to do the work.

 

Im taking a Buisness Management Degree at a Community College. Then when I have the money, I'll go to a upper school and try to get a Marketing Degree.

[Hunter]

I would be curious to see what percentage of people in the industry have degrees as well. I was mainly aiming the question at people who are interested in getting into the industry.

 

I don't think the degree is necessary, but I do recommend getting a degree. I agree with B5C. Getting a degree shows that you can accomplish a long term goal. I disagree that the degree proves you have the knowledge to do the work. Of course, I'm somewhat jaded. Someone I had to work with for a college project couldn't even put a button on a form in visual basic, but he got a BS in CS.

[B5C]

I disagree that the degree proves you have the knowledge to do the work.  Of course, I'm somewhat jaded.  Someone I had to work with for a college project couldn't even put a button on a form in visual basic, but he got a BS in CS.

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Not everyone is perfect.

 

Also it helps going into buisness compitions and conventions. Im a member of Delta Epsilon Chi at School and thats really going to help my resume and im in training for State compition next month. :D

[Hunter]

I disagree that the degree proves you have the knowledge to do the work.  Of course, I'm somewhat jaded.  Someone I had to work with for a college project couldn't even put a button on a form in visual basic, but he got a BS in CS.

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Not everyone is perfect.

 

Also it helps going into buisness compitions and conventions. Im a member of Delta Epsilon Chi at School and thats really going to help my resume and im in training for State compition next month. :D

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Not everyone's perfect, but you should know how to use a computer if you want a computer science degree

 

Keep up the good work. College wasn't really for me, I couldn't stay awake in class :/

[TravisPennington]

He couldn't add a command button in visual basic? How does he even manage to operate windows? Or do you have to do that for him too?

 

I'm sure you were exaggerating a bit, and I know what you mean. Some people at my school are complete dolts, and I go to a Tech School. A couple of people in my programming class can't do much of anything in Visual Basic either. I mean, it's just an Introduction to Computer Programming Class, and the books provide the code for you. It's really just a matter of typing out what you see in the book (We just started the class, btw, I'm only in my first year), but they can't even manage that. I think it's all of those stupid ITT Tech commercials that are floating around...they attract some of the most..."underdeveloped" people around.

 

Anyway, funds shouldn't be a reason not to get a college degree. I have no money, I'm getting a college degree. There's grants, scholarships, and student loans. I have to pay 15k a year to go here, at a 12% interest rate, for 4 years. That's a lot of money I'll have to pay off.

 

Having a degree doesn't guarentee a job in the field, but I'm positive it's better to have one than not. Anyone can get a degree, nothings stopping you. You just have to have the drive to accomplish it.

[CID-78]

there is also alot of diffrent types of degrees and diffrent fields. i am currently taking my master degree in electro engineering. because a pure game development degree would leave you to a very weak market in sweden. i don't spend that amount of time in university for being unemployed i rather take a more useful degree and might take the back door into the game industry later.

[Judge Hades]

So far my degree has been worthless.

[B5C]

So far my degree has been worthless.

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What was your degree?

[pants_happy]

I have to pay 15k a year to go here, at a 12% interest rate, for 4 years. That's a lot of money I'll have to pay off.

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12%? ouch! mine is 4.25%, for me, simply making those interest payments with a part time job can hurt ye olde wallet. you have my sympathies.

[Loof]

Hmm I don't know how to make a button in Visual Basic... maybe thats because i have never even poked VB with a stick... we did our introduction to computer programing in SML.

 

Too answer the poll im currently working on a master degree in computer science (or the swedish equalent) so I don't know why people avoid getting education.. maybe because the simply don't want to study and prefer getting a job that doesn't require a degree, dunno....

[TravisPennington]

Well I took two loans, one had to be in my name, which is 12% interest. Another is in my mothers name which I co-signed, that way it's only a 4% interest rate. The bigger loan is the higher one. The one I co-signed on would only give me so much cash. Once the four years are up we can do some consolidation and whatnot, but it's still going to rip me a new one.

 

And to me, getting my degree isn't just to help me get into a career that I want to, it's a personal challenge...that and everyone I know has really given me a lot more respect since I started going to college. If you look at it in terms of "I still have over 3 years left", you kind of lose motivation. That's why I just take it one quarter at a time.

 

One things for sure though, College Math sucks

[Azarkon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a huge difference between different "degrees"? Are we just talking about a general bachelors degree here (perhaps the common use referent for "degree"?), or a Masters/Ph. D program?

 

That nitpicking detail aside, I'm currently working out CS/English "degrees" at UCB, and I for one can attest to the fact that many CS students do not know how to make a button in Visual Basic.

 

How? Because I'm one of them. Why? Because I never use Visual Basic. The classes are taught, for the most part, in a combination of C, C++, Java, Lisp, and various other languages on the Unix platform - and not via anything Microsoft has made.

 

However, that doesn't mean that given a week or two, most students of CS here would find it difficult at all to pick up Visual Basic and start using it like a regular. That's kind of what's demanded by a rigorous CS degree: you have to be able to self-learn programming languages in a matter of a week or two, while class is in session, independently of the professors who already assume that you know everything.

[Hunter]

Let me just clear up that couldn't make a button in Visual Basic comment. We had our choice of languages. So I let him choose any language he wanted to make his part of the application in. I'm completely confident that he didn't actually know how to program in any language. He chose VB because he didn't know how to code and thought it would be easy in VB. After watching him try to figure it out for about half an hour I just sent him away.

[Oerwinde]

My reason for not getting a degree: I went to a specialty tech school which offers a better program than any college or university in canada and most of north america. And they gave me a diploma instead of a degree. We had people in my class who came there after 4 years doing the same thing in college, and most people were as good as they were after 4 weeks.

[Hydrogen]

I'm hopeing to have my degree next May.

 

Years ago, I left college thinking that a degree was too much of a pain to get. I had the problem of the classes not available when I needed them. And have now found that one of the doors that one can run into is a degree or not. Often it doesn't matter what the degree is in nearly as much as having one. - the next door has to do with if the degree is relavent, but that often isn't taken into account until after the initial interviews and there is a question of which person to hire.

 

So, Hades don't worry about it.

 

I actually know only a few people who work in a field that was covered by their degree in the first place

[mEtaLL1x]

In Kazakhstan educational system is way too crappy to really go for degrees in hopes of a greater knowldege. But it's a powerful thing here, too, of course: employers are picky in this regard. But, yaknow, I kind of learn my trade by myself. In university there is nothing that they can really teach me... only general knowledge. So, for me it doesn't really matter degree or not, what matters is what's in the head.

 

But, of course, such are things here, you mileage may vary and stuff.

[Guaigean]

In university there is nothing that they can really teach me... only general knowledge.

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In some fields this does work, but as far as computer science, it can amke quite a difference. I've worked with people with and without degrees. Over time, those without may be able to hold their own to an extent, but most with have the concepts to be more flexible. Many without degrees focus more on specific languages, while those with CS can move from one to the next quickly and still apply the overall concepts. The best thing I think the formal education does for computers is teach you the shortcuts so they don't have to be reinvented. Can save a significant amount of time when money matters.

[Hunter]

In university there is nothing that they can really teach me... only general knowledge.

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In some fields this does work, but as far as computer science, it can amke quite a difference. I've worked with people with and without degrees. Over time, those without may be able to hold their own to an extent, but most with have the concepts to be more flexible. Many without degrees focus more on specific languages, while those with CS can move from one to the next quickly and still apply the overall concepts. The best thing I think the formal education does for computers is teach you the shortcuts so they don't have to be reinvented. Can save a significant amount of time when money matters.

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I would say, in the case of CS. If you feel you aren't getting much out of the computer science classes, try mixing in more software engineering classes. They're the boring ones most of us try to avoid that just teach the "planning" parts we don't think we'll ever need

[Hydrogen]

I would say, in the case of CS.  If you feel you aren't getting much out of the computer science classes, try mixing in more software engineering classes.  They're the boring ones most of us try to avoid that just teach the "planning" parts we don't think we'll ever need

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and the physics classes can be helpful in the industry.

 

I have found a lot of my computer science classes boring, because I kinda grew up in that atmosphere anyway, and know more than the teachers -- or if I don't, they don't know much more than I do and we can't do anything because of it. I have found a few teachers that are awesome, and I wish there were more classes I could take from them.

[Hawkwise]

Being that i am currently going to school for game design at UAT, think i will post something.

 

First off you do not NEED a game design degree to get into the game industry.

The teachers here freely admit the degree wont get you anything.

 

It can't hurt. However if you do alot of projects while you are in that school and have a beefy portfilio that will say much much more than the name on your certificate. ( I am currently starting a NWN mod project, having problems finding people to model and animate atm...... plenty of coders though lol.........)

 

Keep in mind that 95% give or take 10% of the game industry right now does not have a game degree of any kind. Alot of them come from other places. I know this guy with a masters in Archetecture that is a level designer now and he kicks ass.

 

Being that a game can encorporate everything from real life, almost any degree in anything can be usefull to a company in one way or another. (some more than others obviously. Turf and Soil Management degree wont help much)

 

I would say having an general programming background will help everyone, even if you only know a little, just enough to talk to the programmers.

 

Also i saw a guide book to the NWN toolset a while back, anyone know where i can get one???

[noone9]

I would be curious to see what percentage of people in the industry have degrees as well.  I was mainly aiming the question at people who are interested in getting into the industry.

 

I don't think the degree is necessary, but I do recommend getting a degree.  I agree with B5C.  Getting a degree shows that you can accomplish a long term goal.  I disagree that the degree proves you have the knowledge to do the work.  Of course, I'm somewhat jaded.  Someone I had to work with for a college project couldn't even put a button on a form in visual basic, but he got a BS in CS.

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If you want to be a game developer its more than a fact that you must have a B.S. in either Computer Science or Engineering. I can't possibly imagine anyone without a strong college education matching up a graduate from a high-ranking university. In respect to the guy you mentioned everything depends on the sort of education he obtained. Is he a graduate from a shi*ty community college or one of those technical institutes? If so I wouldn't be expecting much from him either.

 

I am currently pursuing a B.S. in Mathematics (Computer Science concentration) in an Ivy-League College and it is obvious that I haven't been trained in respect to game programming. If I want to be a game developer I obviously have to learn technologies that go beyond the standards of academic education. Like OpenGL, Direct X, the win32 API, and perhaps modeller tools like Maya/3DStudioMax, along with scripting languages that are not part of the college curriculum like LUA, Python, PHP, Perl or the like.

 

This is what most people tend to confuse and wrongfully think a college education is worthless to be a game programmer, and they couldn't be farther from the truth. Back when I was in high school I learned a little C++ and thought I was good enough to do about anything, then I tried learning win32 and Direct X and it seemed like an effort in impossibility, I was able to perform certain hacks and draw some basic stuff but technically I didn't know sh*t and couldn't possibly aspire to make a complex project like a game. Now I am an expert C/C++ and Assembly programmer thanks to the education I received (Procedural, OOP, Data Structures, Systems Programming, Architecture Design, Software Engineering, and O/S programming, plus the mathematics: Calculus 1/2/3, Diff Equations, Numerical Analysis, etc. which considerably helped to logic and rational design of programs) and I learned the win32 API in a couple of days and currently am learning DirectX 8/9. The difference is that now I have the knowledge to make a 3D engine thanks to my college education, if I had stayed at home reading books on my own by this point the best I could aspire for would be to remake Tetris on SDL. And probably a buggy version with 10% of the GBA's version functionality.