Continuity mistake with Mandalore

[Mr_Dashman]

The bio made by LA right? I'm sorry but I don't always trust LA and well I still believe that waiting and playing the game (you could rent it you know just so you don't feel like you wasted money if there is a continuity issue) would be benificial.

[Mr_Dashman]

I see nothing in those excerpts that can't be explained as happening to the one mandalore that Revan killed. We have argued this before I think you are being pretty pedantic here Nuke, you have taken your perception on some very small excerpts and made them fact, my perception was always based on the same excerpts and I saw them different frome you. There simply isn't enough factual information to prove/disprove either.

 

Candy being mandelore is still uber lame though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you 150%

[Darth Nuke]

You don't need anymore facts. HK was built after the Mandalorian Wars, Revan killed Mandalore to end the Mandalorian Wars. IT even describes this pretty well in the bio.

 

So if Revan killed A Mandalore to end the Mandalorian Wars, and HK was built and faught a Mandalore after the Mandalorian Wars. Then it's clear a new Mandalore was around. If not that then the Kashyyk datapad does the deed.

[Sil]

If anyone is interested, this is what LucasArts has on the KotOR II character page:

 

"Mandalore

"Since time immemorial, the Mandalorian clans were built on strict codes of honor and tradition. The leader of all clans was known as Mandalore. When a Mandalore fell, another would be chosen to succeed him.

"Many years have passed since Darth Revan defeated the last Mandalore; none was chosen to take his place. Without a leader, the clans scattered to the far corners of the galaxy, finding work as mercenaries, raiders or worse. Now a new Mandalore has assumed rule, and rumor tells of a battle-hardened warrior who is reuniting the clans."

[Mr_Dashman]

I still believe that not enough is truely known about this topic to warrent going out with guns blazin', be a little catious... it burns fewer bridges

[Darth Nuke]

Whatever, but there was a Mandalore in KOTOR. Proven FACT. You can twist it or alter it to fit the way you like, but the actual continuity says a Mandalore was around during KOTOR.

 

I have watched Akari lurk for a while now, and since he's not going to join the fun, I'll just wait and see. Or should I say come back when I finally confirm that the KOTOR Mando has been forgotten.

[Mr_Dashman]

Maybe he is just watching for the enertainment value. Maybe in the game everything becomes clear and you are completly wrong and he wants to let you dig your hole a little deeper. or you are right but I believe trying to guess what he is doing is completely pointless cause you don't really know.

 

P.S. I think your "fact" idea is still a little shaky.

[Darth Nuke]

Being wrong is no problem. Being wrong will make me happy to know that the Mandalore from KOTOR hasn't been forgotten, good for me.

[Azazel005]

Whatever, but there was a Mandalore in KOTOR. Proven FACT. You can twist it or alter it to fit the way you like, but the actual continuity says a Mandalore was around during KOTOR.

 

I have watched Akari lurk for a while now, and since he's not going to join the fun, I'll just wait and see. Or should I say come back when I finally confirm that the KOTOR Mando has been forgotten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Really that's just arrogant it's not proven fact. Indirectly you are saying despite the fact then when I played the game I saw it differently to you that my perception is wrong and so is anyone else that saw it like me.

 

Proven fact my ass Nuke, I am not saying you don't know your stuff you definetly do but you are drawing factual conclusions on limited information that can be otherwise interpreted - not to twist it around for disagreement fun - but simply because when I played before any of such discussions was that it all happened pre-Kotor.

 

The only facts we have are

 

a) HK-47 was constructed when Revan and Malak began there war on the Galaxy

 

We can argue this all day, When did they began that is purely a status of opinion, wiping out the Mandalorians could well have just been a step in that war for Revan. The Dark side is not traditionally up front about such things, Revan didn't send a memo to the Republic saying "I have began my war against you today, I have the following planets marked for ass kicking, Kind regards the New Dark Lord of the Sith"

 

b) A datapad on Kashyyk mentions the Mandalore and those fighting you seem to be in service to him.

 

Now I could be mistaken but that message didn't came with a date now did it? I also envisioned that group some lost platoon of warriors stuck on some remote contact doing what they were told on the bottom of some forest sticking to there last orders.

 

If you go through my e-mail without dates, you'd get some weird impression about whats going on in my life because I dont have any personal e-mails there newer than 4 months old.

 

They were just last orders to a lost force in my mind.

 

Could I have been wrong sure, I might still be wrong, but it aint becuase there are some facts proving me wrong, there just no there yet.

[Mr_Dashman]

Well said Azazel. You said what I have been too inarticulate to put into words

[Diomedes]

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but is this honestly going to harm anyone's enjoyment of the game, even if there is a continuity error? That is just plain sad. More sad than I can ever comprehend.

[Darth Nuke]

Whatever, but there was a Mandalore in KOTOR. Proven FACT. You can twist it or alter it to fit the way you like, but the actual continuity says a Mandalore was around during KOTOR.

 

I have watched Akari lurk for a while now, and since he's not going to join the fun, I'll just wait and see. Or should I say come back when I finally confirm that the KOTOR Mando has been forgotten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Really that's just arrogant it's not proven fact. Indirectly you are saying despite the fact then when I played the game I saw it differently to you that my perception is wrong and so is anyone else that saw it like me.

 

Proven fact my ass Nuke, I am not saying you don't know your stuff you definetly do but you are drawing factual conclusions on limited information that can be otherwise interpreted - not to twist it around for disagreement fun - but simply because when I played before any of such discussions was that it all happened pre-Kotor.

 

The only facts we have are

 

a) HK-47 was constructed when Revan and Malak began there war on the Galaxy

 

We can argue this all day, When did they began that is purely a status of opinion, wiping out the Mandalorians could well have just been a step in that war for Revan. The Dark side is not traditionally up front about such things, Revan didn't send a memo to the Republic saying "I have began my war against you today, I have the following planets marked for ass kicking, Kind regards the New Dark Lord of the Sith"

 

b) A datapad on Kashyyk mentions the Mandalore and those fighting you seem to be in service to him.

 

Now I could be mistaken but that message didn't came with a date now did it? I also envisioned that group some lost platoon of warriors stuck on some remote contact doing what they were told on the bottom of some forest sticking to there last orders.

 

If you go through my e-mail without dates, you'd get some weird impression about whats going on in my life because I dont have any personal e-mails there newer than 4 months old.

 

They were just last orders to a lost force in my mind.

 

Could I have been wrong sure, I might still be wrong, but it aint becuase there are some facts proving me wrong, there just no there yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your making it harder then it is. The info clearly states a Mandalore is around during KOTOR.

 

HK-47 said he was built after when Revan and Malak began their conquest of the Galaxy. Your interpreting it, I'm not. It's clear HK was created when Malak and Revan began their Sith War after the Mandalorian Wars. Canderous said the War was over and that Mandalore was killed in the Mandalorian Wars. Yet that's the Mandalorian Wars, not the Revan War. So it's very clear.

 

And again your looking to much into it with the Kashyyk Datapad. There is no reason to suspect that the Mandalorian is talking about anyone other than the Lord Mandalore.

[Mr_Dashman]

I believe that it has been proven that so far one person would likely die if the game has a continuity issue. Maybe more will I really don't know but I have decided that I will not be depressed and go try and burn Obsidian to the ground if a continuity error that is still NOT FACT appears.

[Darth Nuke]

Actaully it is fact. The dialogue pretty much gives all the info needed, and I see no reason to alter it for interpretation.

 

Mandalore is killed during the Mandalorian Wars. Canderous knows of this, and the Mandalore's death ended the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Revan and Malak find maps, and attack Galaxy. Revan builds HK-47.

 

Hk is sent to Mandalore Space and is defeated by New Mandalore

 

New Mandalore sends Mandalorians to Kashyyk to test weapons that were used against them in the Mandalorian Wars.

 

 

 

I see no problem

[Eduardo]

Mandalore is killed during the Mandalorian Wars. Canderous knows of this, and the Mandalore's death ended the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Revan and Malak find maps, and attack Galaxy. Revan builds HK-47.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The timing of when they find the Starmaps is a little problematic.

 

After they defeat Mandalore, they set course to the Unknown regions, IIRC, to "follow the remnants" of the Mandalorian fleet, but in truth to find the Starforge.

 

That would imply that they found the Starmaps during the Mandalorian War.

 

So, if HK-47 helped Revan found a Starmap on Tatooine, that would mean he was created before the end of the War.

 

Nuke, dialogue it is open to interpretation. After all, the memories of a faulty droid repaired by an amnesiac Sith lord aren't the best source of info.

 

This reminds me of the Naga Sadow situation (full sith blood & heretic / human and Dark Lord) and that was solved.

[Darth Barth]

Actaully it is fact. The dialogue pretty much gives all the info needed, and I see no reason to alter it for interpretation.

 

Mandalore is killed during the Mandalorian Wars. Canderous knows of this, and the Mandalore's death ended the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Revan and Malak find maps, and attack Galaxy. Revan builds HK-47.

 

Hk is sent to Mandalore Space and is defeated by New Mandalore

 

New Mandalore sends Mandalorians to Kashyyk to test weapons that were used against them in the Mandalorian Wars.

 

 

I see no problem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Maybe its just me but I always thought that Canderous was the Mandalore that was bested by Revan.

 

After you discover your true identity, you can ask Canderous about a war story with the Republic. A fight for supremacy is brought up. Here is the dialogue that follows:

Cand: But I never wanted to challenge you. Never felt the need. Maybe I knew I couldn't win... just like all those years ago.

 

Revan: A wise decision.

 

Cand: Yeah, probabaly. Heh. You'd likely have beaten me again. Maybe you would have. But you're not who you were back then. I can tell. You've changed... and maybe I have too.

 

 

The other question that this thread has brought up is when was HK-47 originally created. HK-47 tells us when Revan started his conquest. If that is all there is to the story, then surely there is a continuity error. The answers to this question are in there in the dialogue and visions.

 

First, the vision on Dantooine. From what Malak says, both still belong to the Jedi. Malak warns that once they break that seal there is no returning. This establishes that both, or at least Revan (note his Sith mask), had already turned to the dark side well before finding the Star Forge. This also means that they must have found the Dantooine Star Map prior to leaving to fight the Mandalorians because we are told Malak and Revan turned when they came back from the Outer Rim. Various dialogues mention that they returned changed.

 

Second, Revans intent and ulterior motives with the Mandalorian War proves him to be a very cunning person. It was Revan, him/herself who convinced the Jedi Council to interfere, to side with the Republic. (NOTE: This is brought up in a dialogue with Bastila and Carth. Carth asks Bastila how things would be different had the Jedi intervened sooner. During the conversation, Revans involvement is mentioned.)

 

Several things were accomplished by Revan when he/she got the Jedi involved:

 

1) Usind the combined might of the Jedi and Republic forces, a grave threat to Sith supremacy (ie, the Mandalorians) would be crushed.

2) Both the Jedi and the Republic would be weaked by such a great conflict. Compounded with the Exar Kun War several years earlier and the way for a new Sith Empire would be all the more certain.

3) The ability to turn the crushed enemies of the Republic, the Mandalorian and the Jedi to your side would be easier. Especially since the Jedi and Republic were so far from home with a highly charismatic (NOTE: This is brought up in multiple dialogues.) war hero Jedi as their leader.

 

All of this ties in to HK-47s creation. If HK-47 notes the plotting and subterfuge as the beginning of Revans conquest, than it is not only likely that HK-47 was created before the Jedi sided with the Republic, but the target for assasination was none other than Mandalore. Perhaps, after HK-47's failure, Revan decided to take a more active role using the reasons mentioned before.

 

 

 

wow.. its late.. time for bed

[Planar Jedi]

The dialogue is not like that. replace you with us in most places and you have the real dialogue, or at least a close estimation

[Darth Barth]

The dialogue is not like that. replace you with us in most places and you have the real dialogue, or at least a close estimation

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I copied it down when I saw it. That is the exact quote.

 

Lemme see if I can get a screen shot.

 

EDIT: Okay.. Ive found the quote.. it is exact. The location of the quote for me was after taking care of Jani in the Tatooine desert (I did Manaan last). And I was mistaken, the quote is exact but the trigger for it is to ask Canderous how it was like to work for Davik.

 

Im looking for a screenshot program to use right now.

 

EDIT2: Pic should be up.

[GeneralCrimson]

Maybe there isn't a continuity problem. If Mandalore is Canderous then it works cause candy never knew there was a new mandalore in kotor1 and when he assumed the title of Mandalore the previous mandalore must have been dead. The bio is about Mandalore and his story and what he knows so there is no problem

[Exar_Kun]

well i believe that LA has to review the story given to them by obsidian, so it is in some part LA's fault for not picking up on the little detail as well.

 

shouldn't take away from the game though, star wars is filled with some continuity errors.

[Darth Barth]

Maybe there isn't a continuity problem. If Mandalore is Canderous then it works cause candy never knew there was a new mandalore in kotor1 and when he assumed the title of Mandalore the previous mandalore must have been dead. The bio is about Mandalore and his story and what he knows so there is no problem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You know.. the datapad has me wondering. Perhaps, the Madalore spoken of in the datapad is going to be an opponent to Mandalore NPC. The datapad certainly doesnt sound like the Canderous that we know... using stealth generators and such.. Canderous would probably see that beneath a warrior. Hmm..

 

These things may very well be in the new game.

[Azazel005]

Whatever, but there was a Mandalore in KOTOR. Proven FACT. You can twist it or alter it to fit the way you like, but the actual continuity says a Mandalore was around during KOTOR.

 

I have watched Akari lurk for a while now, and since he's not going to join the fun, I'll just wait and see. Or should I say come back when I finally confirm that the KOTOR Mando has been forgotten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Really that's just arrogant it's not proven fact. Indirectly you are saying despite the fact then when I played the game I saw it differently to you that my perception is wrong and so is anyone else that saw it like me.

 

Proven fact my ass Nuke, I am not saying you don't know your stuff you definetly do but you are drawing factual conclusions on limited information that can be otherwise interpreted - not to twist it around for disagreement fun - but simply because when I played before any of such discussions was that it all happened pre-Kotor.

 

The only facts we have are

 

a) HK-47 was constructed when Revan and Malak began there war on the Galaxy

 

We can argue this all day, When did they began that is purely a status of opinion, wiping out the Mandalorians could well have just been a step in that war for Revan. The Dark side is not traditionally up front about such things, Revan didn't send a memo to the Republic saying "I have began my war against you today, I have the following planets marked for ass kicking, Kind regards the New Dark Lord of the Sith"

 

b) A datapad on Kashyyk mentions the Mandalore and those fighting you seem to be in service to him.

 

Now I could be mistaken but that message didn't came with a date now did it? I also envisioned that group some lost platoon of warriors stuck on some remote contact doing what they were told on the bottom of some forest sticking to there last orders.

 

If you go through my e-mail without dates, you'd get some weird impression about whats going on in my life because I dont have any personal e-mails there newer than 4 months old.

 

They were just last orders to a lost force in my mind.

 

Could I have been wrong sure, I might still be wrong, but it aint becuase there are some facts proving me wrong, there just no there yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your making it harder then it is. The info clearly states a Mandalore is around during KOTOR.

 

HK-47 said he was built after when Revan and Malak began their conquest of the Galaxy. Your interpreting it, I'm not. It's clear HK was created when Malak and Revan began their Sith War after the Mandalorian Wars. Canderous said the War was over and that Mandalore was killed in the Mandalorian Wars. Yet that's the Mandalorian Wars, not the Revan War. So it's very clear.

 

And again your looking to much into it with the Kashyyk Datapad. There is no reason to suspect that the Mandalorian is talking about anyone other than the Lord Mandalore.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Honestly I am not looking hard into it at all, thats just how I saw it when I played, you have seen it differently that's cool but neither is fact and the continuity errors you speak are only in your perception and have not violated any cold hard facts.

[VIctory6]

The story goes(as I recall) that Revan defeated Mandalore, but It doesn't say he killed him.The defeat of an army rarely results in the death of its general.But then I might be wrong.

[Planar Jedi]

The dialogue is not like that. replace you with us in most places and you have the real dialogue, or at least a close estimation

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I copied it down when I saw it. That is the exact quote.

 

Lemme see if I can get a screen shot.

 

EDIT: Okay.. Ive found the quote.. it is exact. The location of the quote for me was after taking care of Jani in the Tatooine desert (I did Manaan last). And I was mistaken, the quote is exact but the trigger for it is to ask Canderous how it was like to work for Davik.

 

Im looking for a screenshot program to use right now.

 

EDIT2: Pic should be up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is photoshop. I have no save game just with the dialogue, but i am pretty damn sure

[Darth Barth]

The dialogue is not like that. replace you with us in most places and you have the real dialogue, or at least a close estimation

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I copied it down when I saw it. That is the exact quote.

 

Lemme see if I can get a screen shot.

 

EDIT: Okay.. Ive found the quote.. it is exact. The location of the quote for me was after taking care of Jani in the Tatooine desert (I did Manaan last). And I was mistaken, the quote is exact but the trigger for it is to ask Canderous how it was like to work for Davik.

 

Im looking for a screenshot program to use right now.

 

EDIT2: Pic should be up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is photoshop. I have no save game just with the dialogue, but i am pretty damn sure

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is not photoshop. Just because you have no save with this or don't remember it doesn't mean that it its not true. Here is the whole conversation scene.

 

After work I'll post an mp3 and my save game file since no one can believe that this scene exists.