alanschu Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 See you people don't understand how continuty works. Regardless of whether or not you THINK both are offical they are not to LFL. It is a continuity error, a big one. LFL isn't gonna say, well both are offical, no they are gonna make it so that both are offical just that the one in KOTOR isn't the same as the one in TOTJ. What he heck is "LFL?" I'm not saying this just to say it, I'm saying because in time it WILL HAPPEN. There was a Medical Frigate that was made a different way in an Empire. To yall, it was a Medical Frigate just a different STYLE. The keepers of the continuity holocron instead fixed the ship and made both Medical Frigates but made by different Galactic companies and designed differently. See it will happen. Either way you look at, this Valley in KOTOR will not go down in continuity as the REAL VALLEY OF THE DARK LORDS. It will be changed and be fixed so that both these Valley's survive but are different. How does it get fixed. In KOTOR, the valley clearly has a Tomb of Marka Ragnos. Considering more people have probably played KOTOR than read anything in the EU, it's probably more canon than the TOTJ version :D But Mark my words continuity will have the TOTJ as the offical Valley of the Dark Lords. The Valley in KOTOR will be a second sight, minus Marka Ragnos. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You talk about "continuity" as if it were some sort of entity or something. "Beware...continuity is coming for your KOTOR!!!!" LOL Oh, how did you change the Valley for the PC version? You said you did something to make sure it was better??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 But all those have been fixed, I don't them, but I have seen the questions come up and do know that LFL has fixed them all. It's the same thing as Boba Fett being full blooded Mandalorian from Mandalore. Is he a full blooded Mandalorians no, but he did indeed fight along side them in the Clone War as apart of the 212. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, it hasn't been fixed. The Chak Fel thing is still a mystery and even Sue Rostini (the head of editing and all that fun stuff) has said they haven't done anything concrete about it yet. Sure, they may end up coming up with something to rationalize it, but the POINT IS these mistakes happen, so to say that continuity should be taken as gospel is to disregard the fact that a LOT of times, continuity is messed up and requires fixing. If continuity was as strong as you would have us believe, they wouldn't need to fix things, such as the Mara Jade/Lando Calrissian fiasco. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 If you ever need to add the word "fixed" when discussing continuity, then continuity isn't that strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Nuke Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 1.Lucas Film License 2. No the Valley in KOTOR isn't apart of continuity. Because Continuity already has an established Valley of the Dark Lords, which should have been used for this game. In time the keepers of the Holocron will decide it's fate. It either will, one be erase, two: be changed, Three: over looked, meaning it never happened. The Valley was like the one in TOTJ we just were blind. The Holocron keepers have found ways around the greatest continuity mess ups. They might actually say that Marka Ragnos tomb was actually a storage Chamber, or that the spelling mess up from the X-Box version will be used to show Marka had a brother named MarkO. KOTOR 2 must be completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Nuke Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 But all those have been fixed, I don't them, but I have seen the questions come up and do know that LFL has fixed them all. It's the same thing as Boba Fett being full blooded Mandalorian from Mandalore. Is he a full blooded Mandalorians no, but he did indeed fight along side them in the Clone War as apart of the 212. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, it hasn't been fixed. The Chak Fel thing is still a mystery and even Sue Rostini (the head of editing and all that fun stuff) has said they haven't done anything concrete about it yet. Sure, they may end up coming up with something to rationalize it, but the POINT IS these mistakes happen, so to say that continuity should be taken as gospel is to disregard the fact that a LOT of times, continuity is messed up and requires fixing. If continuity was as strong as you would have us believe, they wouldn't need to fix things, such as the Mara Jade/Lando Calrissian fiasco. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Then there you go, they will come up with something. That's their job. And I wouldn't say SW continuity is one of the strongest out there. KOTOR 2 must be completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Then there you go, they will come up with something. That's their job. And I wouldn't say SW continuity is one of the strongest out there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Then your entire point lost all it's strength. You said that SW continuity is strong, and thus it's an outcry that Bioware changed the look of the valley, insinuating that these kind of errors or changes NEVER or RARELY occur in the SW continuity. Now you're changing your tune saying that as long as they eventually get around to fixing it, continuity is strong. That's wrong and so is your argument. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Nuke Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 EU continuity is strong, one of the Strongest. Stronger than Star Treks, I can tell you that. Perhaps you didn't know I meant Strong in that context. Yes Star Wars has it's big wound, wounds that are fixed. In time continuity will make sure this Valley of the Dark Lords in KOTOR is fixed. That's all there is to it. Right now it is wrong on continuity standards, the Valley of the Dark Lords is established and should have looked the right way in this game. Because it doesn't, it shows a lack of research, ad lazyness. Proven by the man who designed the damn thing. He created it because he didn't know the Valley has a known look, and even told me he should have done his research. KOTOR 2 must be completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 1.Lucas Film License 2. No the Valley in KOTOR isn't apart of continuity. Because Continuity already has an established Valley of the Dark Lords, which should have been used for this game. In time the keepers of the Holocron will decide it's fate. It either will, one be erase, two: be changed, Three: over looked, meaning it never happened. The Valley was like the one in TOTJ we just were blind. That's just it. You cannot just erase it. Who gives a fark if some Holocron people that determine what breaks continuity when the majority of the people out there will think differently. As for changed....well, there's already two games out that have it look like that. Are they going to go and update everyone's version of the game or something? Overlook it? Didn't you just say it WILL be changed? And this goes with erasing it. You cannot overlook it because the majority of people out there now have KOTOR's version of the Valley as their perception of what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 EU continuity is strong, one of the Strongest. Stronger than Star Treks, I can tell you that. Perhaps you didn't know I meant Strong in that context. Yes Star Wars has it's big wound, wounds that are fixed. In time continuity will make sure this Valley of the Dark Lords in KOTOR is fixed. That's all there is to it. Right now it is wrong on continuity standards, the Valley of the Dark Lords is established and should have looked the right way in this game. Because it doesn't, it shows a lack of research, ad lazyness. Proven by the man who designed the damn thing. He created it because he didn't know the Valley has a known look, and even told me he should have done his research. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you misunderstood my reason for posting. I could care less whether the valley is wrong or not, or whether it should be fixed or not. I posted because I disagree wholeheartedly with you that SW continuity is strong and thus can be used to "prove a point". It's not, and you can't. There are too many errors in continuity that NEEDED fixing in order to make any sense that continuity as a whole losses a LOT of credibility. Anything that needs that much fixing shouldn't be considered "strong". "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 EU continuity is strong, one of the Strongest. Stronger than Star Treks, I can tell you that. Perhaps you didn't know I meant Strong in that context. Yes Star Wars has it's big wound, wounds that are fixed. Like I said. If you have to use "fixed" to describe continuity....then continuity isn't that strong. The Holocron just tries to make it work given the information that it has. In time continuity will make sure this Valley of the Dark Lords in KOTOR is fixed. "Continuity" won't do anything because "continuity" isn't an entity capable of doing anything. I think maybe the word you have been looking for is "canon." In any case, people try to patch up continuity errors, but it's just a blind eye being turned towards the errors with explanations. It doesn't mean that Star Wars continuity is intact (or even strong). It just means that they've chosen to ignore the stuff that breaks it or make it make sense in some way. Since they have had to make all sorts of corrections and explanations, the continuity of all the stories in the Star Wars universe is clearly not that strong. How does the Holocron determine what breaks continuity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Nuke Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 1.Lucas Film License 2. No the Valley in KOTOR isn't apart of continuity. Because Continuity already has an established Valley of the Dark Lords, which should have been used for this game. In time the keepers of the Holocron will decide it's fate. It either will, one be erase, two: be changed, Three: over looked, meaning it never happened. The Valley was like the one in TOTJ we just were blind. That's just it. You cannot just erase it. Who gives a fark if some Holocron people that determine what breaks continuity when the majority of the people out there will think differently. As for changed....well, there's already two games out that have it look like that. Are they going to go and update everyone's version of the game or something? Overlook it? Didn't you just say it WILL be changed? And this goes with erasing it. You cannot overlook it because the majority of people out there now have KOTOR's version of the Valley as their perception of what it is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well we'll just have to see what LFL comes up with. KOTOR 2 must be completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Nuke Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 "How does the Holocron determine what breaks continuity? " Go ask em. You'll find the keeper of the holocron Leland Chee over at the OS. Perhaps if you prove the KOTOR Valley to be offical, he'll make it offical. I got him to bring Fenn Shysa back. KOTOR 2 must be completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoism Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 What exactly is at stake here for me if the valley in the game and in a comic book isn't completely the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 How do I "prove" anything, since it is just two interpretations of a fictional place. As for anything that LFL comes up with for "fixing" the break in continuity....what's it matter? They could say ignore, or fix, or whatever, but if the majority of the people think something different, what has the LFL truly accomplished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Nuke Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 It doesn't matter it's fixed. People will have their own certain view of it , but most views, yet people's views aren't apart of continuity. Nothing is at stake on this thread except for the poor effort on Biowares and Obsidians part in creating this Valley. It is not the Valley of continuity. Lazyness and lack of research created it, or the Designer told me. He didn't know what the Valley looked like, and didn't do his research. Thus a poor effort in keeping the continuity of Star Wars. In time it will be fixed. But tonite I must end. I wil gladly send all nonbelievers the fixed Valley explaination in time. KOTOR 2 must be completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 It doesn't matter it's fixed. People will have their own certain view of it , but most views, yet people's views aren't apart of continuity. Nothing is at stake on this thread except for the poor effort on Biowares and Obsidians part in creating this Valley. It is not the Valley of continuity. Lazyness and lack of research created it, or the Designer told me. He didn't know what the Valley looked like, and didn't do his research. Thus a poor effort in keeping the continuity of Star Wars. In time it will be fixed. But tonite I must end. I wil gladly send all nonbelievers the fixed Valley explaination in time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "It doesn't matter it's fixed?" What a great perspective. We'll do all this work determining what is or what isn't, even though it doesn't matter. Let's say it gets "fixed" and in KOTOR3 they revisit the valley and it looks completely different than KOTOR1/2. What do they do when people get pissed off because for some bizarre reason the Valley from the first two games looks completely different? It is not the Valley of continuity Nope....it's the Valley of the Dark Lords. In time it will be fixed Odd...because you just told me that they could just "erase" it (not sure how they'll do that) or overlook it. Don't know how that means "fixed." Furthermore, don't know how that means "continuity is strong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Morris Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 This is a fun thread. I'm really enjoying it. What do you think of a new poll asking either 1. Do you think EU continuity is strong enough to hold onto 2. Is EU weak by contradictions and doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I would really be interested to see the results of such a poll People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 It seems theat the biggest problemwith the EU is that the first writers never meant for it to be used like this, it was never gospel, it was just for fun. But like most things people had to get a hold of it and take it so seriously. People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Morris Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 I did a poll to (hopefully) put an end to this beautiful topic. Even though it was good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharcyde Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Wow Darth Nuke. Maybe you should relax about the valley of the sith lords. So BIOWARE didn't make the valley exactly how it is portrayed in the comics. Is it really that important? Did it really change your experience with KOTOR? Give me a break. Also, please learn proper spelling and grammar. Your posts give me a headache. prostytutka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 "How does the Holocron determine what breaks continuity? " Go ask em. You'll find the keeper of the holocron Leland Chee over at the OS. Perhaps if you prove the KOTOR Valley to be offical, he'll make it offical. I got him to bring Fenn Shysa back. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Odd, I thought someone mentioning him in the Boba Fett: Twin Engines of Destruction serial have done so. I asked because in the Essential Guide there is something shown in the Korriban Pic. A huge abyss right behind the Valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nothing is at stake on this thread except for the poor effort on Biowares and Obsidians part in creating this Valley. It is not the Valley of continuity. Lazyness and lack of research created it, or the Designer told me. He didn't know what the Valley looked like, and didn't do his research. Thus a poor effort in keeping the continuity of Star Wars. In time it will be fixed Agreed. You're just telling obvious things and facts, a pity that those kids aren't interested in accepting the truth. KOTOR has wrong valley just like SOTE has wrong Coruscant. I'm not making a tragedy I still enjoy the game but bioware amateur vision of this TOTJ location is just pissing me off. Anyway Valley of the Dark Lords is giant and contains hundreds of sith lords tombs that were accumulated during 15000 years of the Sith Empire's existence. LA can always say that KOTOR presents only small fragment of the valley. But I can't understand you people. Are you really so stuck up that you can't admit that Bioware was lazy and didn't do proper research? Was it so difficult for biowenieee devs to read Essential Guide and 2-3 comics ? HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Just because you are a die-hard EU fanboy doesn't mean everyone else is. I'm pretty sure most of the Kotor fans doesn't care whether the valley looks like it did in a EU comic or not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Right but why shouldn't we admit that Bioware was lazy, when it was? HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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