Thousands Refusing to pay taxes

[Product of the Cosmos]

http://www.givemeliberty.org/

 

This is big news IMO. Not often do presidents do such horrible things people refuse to pay taxes due to their/our constitution being trampled.

 

The people VS the US government.

 

"There is a word for rulers who believe they are unrestrained by law or constitutions -- for those usurpers of popular sovereignty. That word is 'Tyrant.'"

 

"There is a word for a system of government in which the rulers have unlimited power. That word is 'Despotism'."

 

"If money is wanted by Rulers who have in any manner oppressed the People, [the People] may retain [their money] until their grievances are redressed, and thus peaceably procure relief, without trusting to despised petitions or disturbing the public tranquility."

 

"We are not "anti-war." We are not "anti-tax." We are not "anti-government." We are "pro-constitution" and "anti-fraud."

 

"We will bravely suffer present hardships and face future dangers, to secure the rights of humanity and the blessings of freedom for generations yet unborn."

 

"In closing, let me say this. We love our country, but a growing number of people have grave concerns about our government, which is promoting anarchy, rebellion, and lawlessness, which we oppose."

[Phosphor]

Unfortunately refusing to pay taxes is undertaking lawlessness as well, so this group is being rather hypocritical despite their noble stand. Taxes support social programs and infrastructure which benefits everyone; it doesn't all go into the president's personal bank account.

If a growing number of people are truly as concerned and upset as this group claims, the election in November can rectify that. I hope to high heaven that Americans give Bush the boot this year, but I'm not optimistic.

[Product of the Cosmos]

They withhold their taxes as they have the right to, to signify and get attention of the government who tend to look away, so their outcries are heard and taken with appropriate seriousness. So IMO its not undue 'lawlessness'. And how would they be hypocritical if they support the infrastructure they believe in without giving the money to uncle sam to jack a lot of it for causes they don't believe in.

 

Over 50% of our taxes goto the corporate war machine of America.

 

And the schools etc are getting screwed anyway, so the infrastructure is already hurting as well. IMO its affective.

[Iolo]

I think it's just being used as a gimmick so they don't need to pay taxes.

 

Unfortunately, I have no choice but to pay taxes. Employer takes them out of each paycheck.

[Phosphor]

Isn't not paying taxes a crime called "tax evasion"?

I wish I could decide where my tax dollars go, and what they fund, but that's just not possible. If you don't like the leadership of your country, you use your power to vote to attempt and change that leadership. And with low voter turn out, I wonder how concerned people really are. It's the same in the US and Canada, with record low voter turn-out at elections. People complain, but then can't be bothered to vote.

If these people want to effectively change things, they should be out there getting people on-side to register and vote in the election.

[Iolo]

I don't think anyone is ever arrested for Tax Evasion unless it's for several years that you didn't pay taxes or it's a large estimated amount. They got Capone for Tax Evasion I think.

 

By the way that link didn't work for me anyway.

[Product of the Cosmos]

"If money is wanted by Rulers who have in any manner oppressed the People, [the People] may retain [their money] until their grievances are redressed, and thus peaceably procure relief, without trusting to despised petitions or disturbing the public tranquility."

 

 

that^ is from our constitution.. And the gov't is persecuting them for it. Some will lose their jobs altogether in this petition.. Like the IRS agents who are doing it.

 

I'm sure some freeloaders may be doing this for tax evasion.. But not those who started this.

[Iolo]

"If money is wanted by Rulers who have in any manner oppressed the People, [the People] may retain [their money] until their grievances are redressed, and thus peaceably procure relief, without trusting to despised petitions or disturbing the public tranquility."

 

 

that^ is from our constitution.. And the gov't is persecuting them for it. Some will lose their jobs altogether in this petition.. Like the IRS agents who are doing it.

 

I'm sure some freeloaders may be doing this for tax evasion.. But not those who started this.

I beleive the Supreme Court has overruled using that for evading taxes.

 

In this manner the Supreme Court will rule that the people were not "oppressed" and so they would be forced to pay taxes.

[Phosphor]

I suppose that it would have to be legally proven that the Bush administration is indeed oppressing the people. And I somehow doubt that would actually make it to court, let alone through and ultimately to a verdict in favour of those retaining their taxes.

I hate Bush and his administration, and think he's doing more harm than good and isn't acting in the best interests of the American people, but oppression is a stretch. Half the US population supports Bush, and as sick as that makes me it's not an indicator that he's oppressing the people.

[Volourn]

"which is promoting anarchy, rebellion, and lawlessness, which we oppose."

 

 

Huh/ This is foolish. hate Bush or like Bush, I don't see much more anarchy, rebellion, and lawlessness compared to normal. R00fles!

 

They should grow up, and instead of playing chidlren's game, suck it up, and speak with their vote.

[Iolo]

I suppose that it would have to be legally proven that the Bush administration is indeed oppressing the people. And I somehow doubt that would actually make it to court, let alone through and ultimately to a verdict in favour of those retaining their taxes.

I hate Bush and his administration, and think he's doing more harm than good and isn't acting in the best interests of the American people, but oppression is a stretch. Half the US population supports Bush, and as sick as that makes me it's not an indicator that he's oppressing the people.

I agree. This isn't the first time people have refused to pay taxes using this clause in the constitution and I am sure it won't be the last. Nothing will happen because of it and eventually they will pay.

[Product of the Cosmos]

"which is promoting anarchy, rebellion, and lawlessness, which we oppose."

 

 

Huh/ This is foolish. hate Bush

[Volourn]

"And its funny how you say they should speak with their vote when last year many peoples votes weren't even counted!.. "

 

Of course their vote didn't get counted last year. The elction was almost 4 years ago!

 

 

"And you can only vote for 2 people!"

 

Why do you lie?

 

 

"And both r corrupted! Kerry and Bush are even related. lol. Went to the same University, and same 'Skull and Bones' group."

 

They have similairties, yes, but they also have differences.

 

 

"And the patriot act is oppression in itself"

 

Yes. there are parts of the Patriot Act that should be overuled, and fixed. Hopefully, it will be as overall, it's goal is admirable; but I do agree some of it is wrong.

[Product of the Cosmos]

I edited in election year B4 you were even done with your post volo. And I hope you have the intelligence to know that was what I was speaking about.

 

"And you can only vote for 2 people!"

 

"Why do you lie?"

 

Ok, since you cannot see between the lines.. Only 2 have a chance at this point.

 

 

And I agree there are good things with the patriot act. Like 2 out of what 139? lol.

 

 

"I beleive the Supreme Court has overruled using that for evading taxes."

 

I'm like 97% sure the supreme court cannot by law of the Constitution do that. But who knows these days... Not like the constitution means anything to them...

[Phosphor]

I went to school with a lot of people, including my partner. Does that mean we're related?

Anyways. I agree the current administration is bad, and they should go. However, it's stuff like you post that gives the left a bad name, Cosmos, and prevents it's concerns from being taken seriously.

Arguing that there's no difference between Bush and Kerry, that they're both corrupt, is the very reason people use to not vote and so nothing changes.

There are immense problems in the US in regards to voting and in regards to the actions of the Bush administration, I'm not disputing that, and this year is no different, and this election is going to be just as problematic as 2000's, if not moreso. Which is the very reason people that want change have to make it happen by playing well within the rules, by acting responsibly and rationally.

[Product of the Cosmos]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/04/...ain604163.shtml

 

however much distant. Kerry is related to Bush(both related to Hugh Hefner too LMFAO). and even major conglomorate media sources say this now.

 

 

"I would be delighted to invite both President Bush and Senator Kerry for a family reunion."

Hugh Hefner

 

"Arguing that there's no difference between Bush and Kerry, that they're both corrupt, is the very reason people use to not vote and so nothing changes."

 

There is much difference between them.. Most particularly(and what gets me to vote) the strategists for Rep and Dem are VERY different being based on their followings.. And IMO democratic followers are more moral in environmental issues. And that is the major reason why I will vote for Kerry this year.

 

Don't twist my words. But both IMO r corrupt.

[taks]

1. 50% of the US budget is not for the "corporate war machine." the numbers are public and it amounts to less than 5%. we spend more money on education and medicare, unless you want to somehow spin that into the "corporate war machine." do some research before spouting rhetoric like a moron.

 

2. tax evasion by folks such as this is nothing new. these idiots have been doing it for years and it simply becomes more of an issue near an election. to date, nobody has been able successfully challenge the constitutionally ameneded income tax for "oppression."

 

taks

['JN]

I have seen first hand how corruption in gov't makes somewhat misled people promote anarchy.

[Product of the Cosmos]

Im sorry taks.

 

49% of tax dollars to war. 5%? where the hell are you from? Canada?

 

Current Military, $536B:Military Personnel $109B, Operation and Maintenance $164B, Procurement $67B, Research and Development $66B, Construction $6B, Family Housing $4B, Retired Pay $44B, DoE Nuclear Weapons $17B, 50% NASA $8B, International Security $8B, 50% Homeland Security $16B, Ex. Off. Pres. $10B, misc. $6B

 

Iraq & Afghan Wars, $50B: Though the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is not included in the President

[Product of the Cosmos]

I have seen first hand how corruption in gov't makes somewhat misled people promote anarchy.

[taks]

Im sorry taks. 

 

49% of tax dollars to war.  5%? where the hell are you from?  Canada?

 

Current Military, $536B:Military Personnel $109B, Operation and Maintenance $164B, Procurement $67B, Research and Development $66B, Construction $6B, Family Housing $4B, Retired Pay $44B, DoE Nuclear Weapons $17B, 50% NASA $8B, International Security $8B, 50% Homeland Security $16B, Ex. Off. Pres. $10B, misc. $6B

 

Iraq & Afghan Wars, $50B: Though the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is not included in the President

[Iolo]

"I beleive the Supreme Court has overruled using that for evading taxes."

 

  I'm like 97% sure the supreme court cannot by law of the Constitution do that.  But who knows these days... Not like the constitution means anything to them...

I was referring to a court case a few years back where someone tried to use that clause to get out paying taxes and I think it was resolved at the Supreme Court level. They lost. Afraid I don't have a link or more details handy. But the term 'oppression' needs to be proved if someone is going to use that clause anyway to not pay taxes.

[taks]

[i was referring to a court case a few years back where someone tried to use that clause to get out paying taxes and I think it was resolved at the Supreme Court level. They lost.

this happens all the time. the arguments vary and sometimes they try the "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" argument saying income taxes are unconstitutional. the supreme court has ruled they are not.

 

taks

[Enoch]

your number of $536B is only 4.9% dumbass... our total budget is $10 trillion.

 

get a clue.

 

taks

$10 trillion is the GDP, not the total gov't budget.

 

Congressional Budget Office projections

 

2004 total federal spending is just under $2.3 trillion. Projected GDP is nearly $11.5 trillion. Defense spending is around $450 billion.

[Product of the Cosmos]

lol ur confused there taks.

 

Are you telling me that every single American on average is taxed $40,000 a year?! LMFAO!

 

 

Current Military, $536B

 

Iraq & Afghan Wars, $50B:

 

Past Military, $349B

 

536+50+349=935

 

935 billion(the projected 2005 military spending by Bush) out of $1,926 B i l l i o n projected for 2005=48.5%, taks.