20 Levels

[FalloutGOD]

WTF

 

D&D

 

Know your roots, n00b. lol

 

It all started with D&D, crawl out from under that rock and realize what the d in d20 stands for. It stands for DICE, and the first game to use dice(for role playing and such that is) is D&D. =P

 

Oh yeah, you got 0wn3d.

[Laozi]

WTF

 

D&D

 

Know your roots, n00b. lol

 

It all started with D&D, crawl out from under that rock and realize what the d in d20 stands for. It stands for DICE, and the first game to use dice(for role playing and such that is) is D&D. =P

 

Oh yeah, you got 0wn3d.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

And the 20 stands for 20

[DSLuke]

No level cap or a high one seems like the right path for me.

[Barzarel]

No level cap or a high one seems like the right path for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just dont want it to big chop, chop, chop only at least not more than story, since i want story to be spotlight.

 

I dont mind high levels love it, just rather see in a exspansion or such since in main module it often tend to end more like hack & slash more than story...

[DSLuke]

I'm sure the story will be really good on this one. So there will be no harm from not having level cap.

[Judge Hades]

WTF

 

D&D

 

Know your roots, n00b. lol

 

It all started with D&D, crawl out from under that rock and realize what the d in d20 stands for. It stands for DICE, and the first game to use dice(for role playing and such that is) is D&D. =P

 

Oh yeah, you got 0wn3d.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You really do not know what you are talking about do you. We are talking about the d20 SYstem rules set and that started with Alternity. Role playing as it is today, regardless of dice used, started with Chain Mail, not Dungeons and Dragons. Grow a clue or don't post.

[FalloutGOD]

And the 20 stands for 20 huh.gif

 

No... it stands for the number of sides on the die.

 

You really do not know what you are talking about do you. We are talking about the d20 SYstem rules set and that started with Alternity. Role playing as it is today, regardless of dice used, started with Chain Mail, not Dungeons and Dragons. Grow a clue or don't post.

 

 

Chain Mail? What are you on about? I'm talking about the the actual gameplay rules not role playing. Role playing has been around sence people invented plays. D&D was created by a 40 year old guy in his basement. Then all these other companies began to edit his idea and come up with their own rules that were pretty much just edited versions of the D&D system.

[HomoUniversalis]

A 40 year old guy in his basement? Is that your official hypothesis, or an educated guess?

 

I would like to add that the Level 20 cap seems a bit restricting, when there are in fact Prestige classes. Personally, I will never consider Revan, or Kyle Katarn, or any of those characters in the same league as Yoda, Vader and Exar Kun.

 

The storylines of games and those of movies have to be different. While a game (like KOTOR) needs to be filled with combat, a movie would be pretty boring with that much combat. The gradual process of a character becoming more and more powerful in the force is, in my opinion, only possible in games. Imagine a movie in which a character gains experience and gains extra feats. It would not seem correct.

 

I just enjoy the game, and like that it plays as a Star Wars game. I do not compare my character to Darth Vader or Darth Sidious, but I like playing as something that approximates them. If a higher level cap makes me enjoy the game more, than I believe they should implement them.

 

On a sidenote, I believe developers are quite capable of seeing what will and what will not work. They are not ignorant and they can see how a level cap will influence the game and the reality of that game.

 

Mr U

[Judge Hades]

Chain Mail?  What are you on about? I'm talking about the the actual gameplay rules not role playing. Role playing has been around sence people invented plays. D&D was created by a 40 year old guy in his basement. Then all these other companies began to edit his idea and come up with their own rules that were pretty much just edited versions of the D&D system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Man, you are really stupid. The guys who wrote Chain Mail rules system expanded it and repackaged it as... wait for it... DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!

 

As I said, grow a clue or don't post.

 

I think you just got "pwned." Yes, I think it is what they call it. "

[Volourn]

"Sorry, but this isn't DnD. It is Star Wars and Star Wars d20 has a level limit. It is balanced for that level limit."

 

Haha. I just got the d20 SW rulesbook. And, guess what? I automatically changed that rule. There is no level limits. However, it'ss et around 100 years after Episode 6 and I seriosuly doubt my players will ever get to level 20 anyways but the possibility though low is there. My major campaign plot line makes sense for there to be "epic" levels.

 

Besides, after now actaully rading and playing SW pnp; KOTOR switched so many rules I don't think them extending it into "epic levels" will make a big deal. Heck, just the way KOTOR handles force powers in comaprison to pnp SW is huge. What's funny is I prefer KOTOR's way of doing force powers...

[Judge Hades]

I don't. Follow the rules of the game or the game is nothing. I prefer the method stated in the Star Wars d20.

[Volourn]

"I don't. Follow the rules of the game or the game is nothing. I prefer the method stated in the Star Wars d20."

 

Eh. Do you prefetr the pnp rules just because they came first or because theya re better. i hope you realize that just because certain things came first doesn't make them better.

 

PNP SW does some things better than KOTOR; and KOTOR does some things better than PNP SW.

 

That is all.

[Judge Hades]

I just think that if you are going to use an official product and make an official derivitive of the product it must be as close as possible to the original product. House rules have no place in official products. May it be DnD, SW, or whatever.

[Volourn]

"I just think that if you are going to use an official product and make an official derivitive of the product it must be as close as possible to the original product. House rules have no place in official products. May it be DnD, SW, or whatever. "

 

WOTC apparantly disagrees with your assessment and sicne these are THEIR products; they rule.

[Judge Hades]

Hasbro and WotC only sees a potential payday and nothing more. They don't really give a crap otherwise.

[sly]

The argument that KOTOR2 should have a 20 level limit because it's a d20 game is silly. Blind adherence to rules isn't even advocated in d20 sourcebooks, and there are plenty of precedents for levels 21+ in other d20 games.

 

The argument that the game should be challenging, on the other hand is perfectly valid. I wouldn't care of KoToR2 had 50 levels so long as the game is challenging and fun the entire time. The original kotor was a fun game, but was stupidly easy (especially if you were a vet of the d20 system in general and understood the notions of dc's, crits, ac, etc).

 

So rather than argue senselessly about 20 levels being the holy grail for a game to be good, why not just expend all this energy coming up with ideas for how to make the game more challenging/difficult?

 

Oh, wait, the game is about to go gold, nm

[FalloutGOD]

Chain Mail?  What are you on about? I'm talking about the the actual gameplay rules not role playing. Role playing has been around sence people invented plays. D&D was created by a 40 year old guy in his basement. Then all these other companies began to edit his idea and come up with their own rules that were pretty much just edited versions of the D&D system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Man, you are really stupid. The guys who wrote Chain Mail rules system expanded it and repackaged it as... wait for it... DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!

 

As I said, grow a clue or don't post.

 

I think you just got "pwned." Yes, I think it is what they call it. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I know one of the guys, who helped work on D&D. I don't recall hearing anything about chain mail. What proof do you have? Though it's possible I've been talking to an old crack head I don't think a person of his profession would lie. That profession being a teacher at my old jr high. It is possible that what he told me wasen't entierly true but somehow I believe him more than you.

[Judge Hades]

His name is Gary Gygax. He worked on the original Chain Mail and the very first version of Dungeons and Dragons.

 

He and Jeff Perrin wrote Chainmail at Guidon Games then republished them under TSR. After that successful venture in 1974 he brought out Dungeons and Dragons.

 

The proof is in the author credits. As I said, grow a clue or don't post.

[FalloutGOD]

His name is Gary Gygax.  He worked on the original Chain Mail and the very first version of Dungeons and Dragons. 

 

He and Jeff Perrin wrote Chainmail at Guidon Games then republished them under TSR.  After that successful venture in 1974 he brought out Dungeons and Dragons.

 

The proof is in the author credits.  As I said, grow a clue or don't post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yeah, thanks for nothing. I looked at the release dates and followed the lines carefully. It would seem you are correct. Chainmail was released around four years before D&D. Point made. Now back to my point.

 

However, I wana say quit being a jerk. Why did you even molest me with irrelevant info? How bout you get a clue, huh? I was talking about the rule system not the role playing in general. If you still don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about here is a direct qoute from my source.

 

According to Arneson, Chainmail bears little resemblance to D&D whatsoever; "not a hit point, character class, level, or armor class" anywhere.

 

That taken from http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/Chainmail.html

 

Therefore, D&D is the root of the D20 system. :D

[Judge Hades]

But it is not. Majority of the core game mechanics came from Alternity. The d20 System (both Modern and Medieval Fantasy elements) have derivitive work from both Alternity and DnD, but mostly from Alternity. The Flavor text might be DnD, but the mechanics is Alternity.

 

Also, without Chainmail DnD would not have existed. It was the seed idea that made DnD, therefore the roots start there.

[FalloutGOD]

But it is not.  Majority of the core game mechanics came from Alternity.  The d20 System (both Modern and Medieval Fantasy elements) have derivitive work from both Alternity and DnD, but mostly from Alternity.  The Flavor text might be DnD, but the mechanics is Alternity.

 

Also, without Chainmail DnD would not have existed.  It was the seed idea that made DnD, therefore the roots start there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, Time line of games/systems in general that use dice as it pertains to my point.

 

D&D => Alternity => D20 System.

 

Therefore D&D is still the root of the D20 system. I suppose Chainmail should be noted but as it doesn't have any relevance to my point it doesn't belong there. As it was not a mathematical system that used dice for role playing and such. It in my opinion is the root of role playing games of today but not the the use to dice for gameplay.

[Judge Hades]

Game mechanic wise there is nothing DnD in Alternity.

 

Basically DnD and Alternity are parallel of each other then WotC decided to mesh them into one system and that is how the d20 System came about.

[FalloutGOD]

Game mechanic wise there is nothing DnD in Alternity.

 

Basically DnD and Alternity are parallel of each other then WotC decided to mesh them into one system and that is how the d20 System came about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, I never did play Alternity, all I know is it uses a number of different sided dice much like D&D. It has a level system from what I understand and the only major difference in game play is skill levels. So it's more or less an edited algorithm of the D&D engine. Then if my knowledge on Alternity is not majorly holed the more important differences that comes with the D20 system is the use of only one die. So you see, to me it's one big evalution of a system that started back in around 1975.

[Judge Hades]

Then you are ignorant and need to grow a clue, like I said many posts ago.

[FalloutGOD]

Then you are ignorant and need to grow a clue, like I said many posts ago. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

(w00t) REALLY

 

Well gee, if you are so omnipotent and knwoledgable and such....

 

<_<

 

How bout you enlighten me then?

 

:D