Should Jediism be banned?

[OrganisedChaos]

I've been looking closley at the Star Wars universe and I feel there is a strong case for Jediism to be outlawed. I'll go through the evidence.....

 

In the begining.........The Jedi exiled some of their darker members to the Sith homeworld where they interbred with them, turning the sith into a race of evil force-using warriors. Note: the Sith were innocent untill the Jedi turned up, it was the Jedi who corrupted them.

 

We then come to the start of the original KOTOR. How would the republic feel about the Jedi then- The republic has just recovered for the Exar Kun war, a war caused by the Jedi- Exar was a Jedi who turned bad and started a devistating war.

If Jediism were banned Exar would never have been trained and could not have learn't Sith teachings and the war wouldn't have happened...........

 

Then when the Mandalorian's invaded and the republic asked the Jedi for help what did the Jedi do? Nothing! They left the republic on it's own. I'd imagine the rebublic senators would hate the Jedi for that, along with the republic army.

 

Now we come to Revan, we know that yes he saved the republic, but what did he do then- he turned around and started taking over the galaxy! Now true the Mandalorian's would have done this, but remember what Carth said once..

"The sith are savages, even the Mandalorian's weren't this bloodthirsty"

it seems to me that perhaps the republic would have been better off under Mandalorian control rather than having to put up with two wars started by Jedi!

 

Also the republic army would not be to fond of the Jedi taking over a ship like they did the Endar Spire. Then Many jedi instantly swore alligance to Malak- how loyal can Jedi be....

 

Now consider the movies, the Jedi seemed to be so arrogant, for example

Anakin- "This is a job for local security not Jedi!" Putting down that security chief like that just seems rude to me.

When Mace Windu is told that he is 'impossibly outnumbered' he replies "I don't think so!"- this deffinatly sounds arrogant to me.....

 

Now think of post episode 6- how would the rebel soldiers feel about the new Jedi that Luke Skywalker is training to be the new peacekeepers. If you were a rebel soldier who had fought against the Empire for years, killed 100's of Storm troopers, and risked your life for freedom, how would you feel if some kid who has done 2 months Jedi training started telling you what to do? You'd be pissed off wouldn't you? Yes you would!

 

Maybe this is why there are so few jedi at the start of TSL, perhaps the republic got fed up with them and stopped protecting them.....

 

How do you feel about the Jedi. Arrogant troublemakers, or loyal heros?

[Kdy-worker 1138]

In fact both jedis and siths are the hooligans of the galaxy...the universe would fare far better without any of them.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

They have caused problems but it is better to have some form of control than none at all. with out the jedi people would be free to developed their force abilities by themselves with nothing to keep them in check!!

[Iolo]

But in practice it's not possible to remove Jedis completely. There will continue to be born people who are strong in the force. Without the Jedi Order, there would be more chaos or anarchy among force users and less support to prevent people from being turned to the Dark Side which is even worse.

[GhostofAnakin]

Except for the fact you can't "ban" an ability or strength someone is born with. How exactly would you "ban" individuals from going to the dark side?

 

Republic Officer: "Sorry, Exar, but if you use your Force powers for evil, I'm gonna have to arrest you."

 

Exar Kun: "Ah damnit, what am I to do now? You're holding a tiny blaster at me that I can easily pull from your hands and then shock you with force lightnight. but damn it to hell, they banned Jediism."

 

In other words, "banning" Jediism would eliminate the Jedi, but not those who want to use the Force for evil.

[Dark Wanderer]

Actually, I wonder if it matters that the Jedi are there or not... See, the problem seem to be the Force itself; it's because of the Force that the Jedi exist to begin with... and if you look at it in that light, it's probably better that the Jedi are there, otherwise people would still develop force Abilites on their own (althrough perhaps just minor powers) and it seems to be esier to fall down to the Dark side then...

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

Except for the fact you can't "ban" an ability or strength someone is born with. How exactly would you "ban" individuals from going to the dark side?

 

Republic Officer: "Sorry, Exar, but if you use your Force powers for evil, I'm gonna have to arrest you."

 

Exar Kun: "Ah damnit, what am I to do now? You're holding a tiny blaster at me that I can easily pull from your hands and then shock you with force lightnight. but damn it to hell, they banned Jediism."

 

In other words, "banning" Jediism would eliminate the Jedi, but not those who want to use the Force for evil.

Exactly, the jedi provide a form of control. It may not be perfect but its better than nothing!!

[Ragadanked]

It would be so boring without them

 

I suppose the lure of the Dark Side is too overwhelming to control.

 

I agree with Iolo. There will always be people who can use the force. Those who can't control it will easily crumble to the Dark Side.

 

Think of Jedi like a Government.

[OrganisedChaos]

Ah but if Exar hadn't been taught simple Jedi powers like force push how could he have learnt more powerfull Sith ones such as lightning?

 

I know you wouldn't be able to stop people going dark but if nobody knew anything about the force, noone would ever think "I may start a new Sith empire"

 

It's like nuclear weapons- if all records of what they were and how to build them was erased no nation would imagine they could build such a weapon and the world would be a safer place, or would it........

 

I just wanted to get a debate going, and remember the beginning- if there were no Jedi there would be no evil sith.

[Nartwak]

noone would ever think "I may start a new empire"

 

Fixed for great justice.

[Ragadanked]

Ah but if Exar hadn't been taught simple Jedi powers like force push how could he have learnt more powerfull Sith ones such as lightning?

 

I know you wouldn't be able to stop people going dark but if nobody knew anything about the force, noone would ever think "I may start a new Sith empire"

 

I just wanted to get a debate going, and remember the beginning- if there were no Jedi there would be no evil sith.

Ah! What do Dark Jedi Strive for... Power. If there were no Jedi and someone was able to use the force and turned evil from it, more than likely he will strive to become more powerful because he can use his abnormal powers to his advantage. Then it is also most likely he will try to create an ideal for people to follow. It doesn't have to be the "Sith and their ways" but a group of bad people is more than able to develope.

[ShinIchiro]

The jedi do far more good than bad. It's just alot of people remember the bad more than the good.

[GhostofAnakin]

Ah but if Exar hadn't been taught simple Jedi powers like force push how could he have learnt more powerfull Sith ones such as lightning?

 

I know you wouldn't be able to stop people going dark but if nobody knew anything about the force, noone would ever think "I may start a new Sith empire"

 

It's like nuclear weapons- if all records of what they were and how to build them was erased no nation would imagine they could build such a weapon and the world would be a safer place, or would it........

 

I just wanted to get a debate going, and remember the beginning- if there were no Jedi there would be no evil sith.

you can't be serious with that reply.

 

a lot of Force powers are learned by the students on their own. a child with Force sensitivity realizes for some strange reason, he can make his toy come to him without having to physically stand up, walk over and pick it up.

 

those with Force abilities aren't "taught" how to use the Force, per se. They're taught how to refine the existing powers.

 

Of course they might not be as powerful as if they were taught, but anyone with Force abilities, once realizing they were "special" and could do things others couldn't, would test the limits and in essense, teach themselves.

 

In essense, the learning to use the Force is like learning to walk. Those with the ability will eventually do so. If you "ban" Jedi, then that would be like not allowing parents to teach their kids to walk. The process may take more time and there might be more stumbles along the way, but eventually that kid is going to be able to walk on his/her own.

[OrganisedChaos]

But do the Jedi do more good than bad?

 

When they do good they keep the peace, a job which the republic army could probably do just as well.

 

When they go bad you get a galaxy-wide war in which whole planets are bombed (Telos, Taris) and millions of people die.

[Nartwak]

When they go bad you get a galaxy-wide war in which whole planets are bombed (Telos, Taris) and millions of people die.

 

Bombed with Force I assume.

[Dark Wanderer]

When they do good they keep the peace, a job which the republic army could probably do just as well.

I wonder abotut hat. Remember that the Republic only first and foremostly only "helps" their own plannets. Also, the Jedi are neutral and can stand over several laws, whereas the republic if it interfered would risk getting in conflict with it's own laws. Also, Jedi are good negotiators, better than most normal people, probably much thanks to their Affect Mind and Force Persaude powers... Also, the jedi can party put themselves above political matters when it comes to solving crimes and such, which can be difficult in certain situations....

[ShinIchiro]

When they go bad you get a galaxy-wide war in which whole planets are bombed (Telos, Taris) and millions of people die.

 

Bombed with Force I assume.

Ummm. Of course... Have you heard of this game called Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic?

 

Anyway, the jedi clean up pirates, save lives (and it's the sith who do the bad more). One thing is that we are only shown eras (in teh game and movies) where things go wrong for jedi. Things go fine for 5000 years and then in the 1 year where there's a problem, the game takes place.

[Ragadanked]

But do the Jedi do more good than bad?

 

When they do good they keep the peace, a job which the republic army could probably do just as well.

 

When they go bad you get a galaxy-wide war in which whole planets are bombed (Telos, Taris) and millions of people die.

I agree. Its no wonder why we remember the bad more. Their lack of care for anything can lead to immense destruction. Plus most humans would most likely be tempted to the Dark Side if no training had been aquired. Thats why there needs to be Jedi.

[ShinIchiro]

The bad stuff sells. Really, do you want to year about the thousands of years where the jedi just help people and stop pirates with no casualties and everyone happy? That wouldn't sell at all. There needs to be a threat.

[OrganisedChaos]

Good points but remember: the Sith as a species are gone. Modern Sith have been Jedi who have taken on the name- hence Jedi are to blame for the recent wars in KOTOR.

 

As for force sensitive children loosing control and going to the darkside- if no children knew that Jedi/sith were cabable of using force lightning choke etc they wouldn't attempt it themselves.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

Dont forget that until esp 1 the Sith had been extinct for a 1000 years!!!

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

Good points but remember: the Sith as a species are gone. Modern Sith have been Jedi who have taken on the name- hence Jedi are to blame for the recent wars in KOTOR.

 

As for force sensitive children loosing control and going to the darkside- if no children knew that Jedi/sith were cabable of using force lightning choke etc they wouldn't attempt it themselves.

Yes but eventually they would learn it on their own. How do you think it was discovered in the first place????

[Kdy-worker 1138]

I do also think that the force itself (light or dark) would find another way to manifest itself if rhere were no jedi

[OrganisedChaos]

New idea. What if all children who showed signs of force powers were arrested/ killed as soon as it was first noticed?

 

Ruthless perhaps but would this end the threat of evil force users.

 

I also think i need backup- are there any more Jedi-haters out there?

[Dark Wanderer]

Hmm, remember that tribe that Luke and Kam Solusar encoutered on Ossus (if you've read Dark Empire II, that's it)? They were able to use the force to a limited extent - very limited extent - but they could use the force nonetheless and it seems like they were self-taught, so that's a proof that the Force is sooner or later discovered and used by someone.