Fardragon Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I'm starting to suspect the PC will start TSL at around 4th or 5th level rather than 1st level. These are my reasons: 1) The character is a veteran of the Mandalorian war and does not have amnesia. 2) The level cap has been raised (to 30 at a guess). Since TSL is not going to be significantly longer than KotOR, in order for the PC to get to anything like this level they will either have to start at a higher level or level up ridiculasly quickly. 3) Kreia joins the party early on. It stretches credability that this venerable mentor character be less than 6th level. Having a character in the party that is a significantly higher level would overwelm the other characters. Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 What exactly is a 6th level character? Or a first level character?
prsrulez Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Points taken... but... here are my points. 1) You are out of tune with the force. 2) It is a videogame and Kreia can be whatever level they (Obsidian) see fit. 3) I've never seen a game that has done this before with the main PC... 4) In KOTOR I was stuck on level 20 for awhile. Right before the "unknown" planet portion. I think I was in Korriban. Anyway... yea... 1st level character = starts at level 1 6th level = starts at level 6
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 1st level character = starts at level 1 6th level = starts at level 6 Ummmm.....no kidding. But what exactly is a 6th level character? Because apparently if Kreia is 6th level, it "violates" credibility. I'm gonna bet on 1st level character, since the character likely has not been very active for the past few years. Sure s/he is a veteran of the Mandalorian wars....but that was 9 years ago.
prsrulez Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Um.... a 6th level character is a character that starts off at level 6 when you meet them... ugh... When I was reading your post I thought you understood that. Something happen between "um no kidding" and the "violates cred" statement? Btw what do you mean violates crediblity?
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Read fardragons post, as mine was a reply to it. He says that a character like Kreia cannot be lower than 6th level or it stretches the credibility. And I say why? Unless someone can tell me something specific about what exactly a 6th level character? Carth was only a level 3 hero of the Republic. I don't feel that that in any way took away from the "credibility." I would bet that 99% of the people in the universe would never get past level 1 anyways. If all a 6th level character is is a character that is level 6, then I see no reason why Kreia couldn't be level 3 when you met her. Why must someone be of Level X to be "credible" according to fardragon? It's sort of like what exactly is 1hp remaining for a character. But I guess I'm waxing too philosophically here.
Judge Hades Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 If a character is to have the role of mentorship mean that character has a great deal of experience and knowledge. In the d20 System that is represented by what level the character is. If Kreia is supposed to have that role she needs to be a certain level to properly represent that experience and knowledge. Without it the story has no credibility therefore the game not worth playing. A story that has no credibility is nothing but a chore to play through.
Enoch Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 First, just because you're called a "veteran" doesn't mean you actually participated in the fighting. You could have spent the whole war escorting supply convoys or something (important job, but not guaranteed to put you in combat). Second, a level 1 Jedi is already really quite powerful. Last, I'm guessing that Kreia's mentor role has more to do with things like dialogue and quest choices (which D20 generally captures in the Wisdom stat), rather than skills and abilities (which are covered by experience). She's not going to be piping in with advice on how to shoot your blaster or pick the lock on a footlocker. First level makes a lot of sense to me.
Judge Hades Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Not to me. Of course Obsidian will do what they will regardless of what we say here but if the story gets too implausible and whacked there is no reason to play it.
Sirus Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Not to me. Of course Obsidian will do what they will regardless of what we say here but if the story gets too implausible and whacked there is no reason to play it. Then don't. Nobody will care if one guy doesn't buy the game.
Judge Hades Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I think there would be more than one guy not buying this game if Obsidian designs and writes the story of the game stupidly.
'JN Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 What is the point of having level 1-5 enemies if you are always going to be more powerful than they are? The level system must be relative to the player. Level 1 is where you start out, and the enemies you fight at the beginning are near or around there. Like alan said, Carth was one of the Republic's best soldiers, but he was only at level 3 when you first got him. For the sake of gameplay consistency, your party members must always be in the same level range as both you and your enemies.
Judge Hades Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Only if it makes sense to the story and backstory of the characters involved and with the PC being a veteren level 1 character makes no sense.
Sirus Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I think there would be more than one guy not buying this game if Obsidian designs and writes the story of the game stupidly. KOTOR 2 is obviously not for you. Go and find a game you actually like.
Judge Hades Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Unfortunately the only other game that is in the works I might like won't be released til 2006.
'JN Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Then don't. Nobody will care if one guy doesn't buy the game. The developers have said that the storyline is the thing that made KOTOR 1 great. So if they screw it up, and that one guy doesn't buy the game because he read a review saying it sucked, they are definitely going to care.
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 If a character is to have the role of mentorship mean that character has a great deal of experience and knowledge. In the d20 System that is represented by what level the character is. If Kreia is supposed to have that role she needs to be a certain level to properly represent that experience and knowledge. Without it the story has no credibility therefore the game not worth playing. A story that has no credibility is nothing but a chore to play through. I know that.....but is level 6 "weak?" From what I hear level 20 is Yoda, and Yoda is uber-powerful. In D&D Drizzt was classified as level 17, and he too was insanely powerful in the game.
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Only if it makes sense to the story and backstory of the characters involved and with the PC being a veteren level 1 character makes no sense. The entire level system and numerical representations of attributes doesn't make any sense. PNP rules do not even make "sense" in terms of stories.
Judge Hades Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 That is the problem when you bring in munckin characters into the game. Jedis are the drow of Star Wars. Uber munchkiny and every adoloescent child wants to play one.
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 That is the problem when you bring in munckin characters into the game. Jedis are the drow of Star Wars. Uber munchkiny and every adoloescent child wants to play one. ????? Is this a response to me?
Judge Hades Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Yes, it is. Also to your point about levels, I agree with you. That is why I prefer a level-less and classless system of role playing.
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Ah....sounded like you were arguing against me at first....but you are agreeing with me that a character can still be a "lower" level and be powerful enough to be a mentor? I remember you had a neat idea of if someone does damage greater than your constitution, player should make a save or die. I think it would probably make things too difficult for some, but it would be fun for me
nightcleaver Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Levels have nothing to do with story, it's just a system of character advancement. I've yet to play a cRPG where the character advancement seemed to really fit with the story. It would be nice if it did, but it certainly doesn't ruin the credibility of the story if the advancement of the character doesn't fit any sort of realism or story. Maybe you've stopped liking games enough to overlook those small discrepancies.
Judge Hades Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Probably, but I look at the game mechanics and story mechanics and they need to mesh well or the whole game is worthless to play.
EnderAndrew Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Everyone keeps bringing up this point that being a veternal of the Madalorian Wars means you have to start higher than 1st level. Carth was a veteran of the same wars, and he started out pretty weak. The numbers and rules are there to present a system of balance and hopefully challenge. Those numbers have to answer to game-play, not to story. When it's possible, it's nice to have those numbers coincide with story, but that's not always the case. Consider how powerful Kyle Katarn gets in the various games. Why wasn't he alongside Luke in all the novels?
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