alx1078 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Does anyone know how the hell Revan came to "fall" to the dark side? I can't seem to find ANY clues as to how that fall came to be and it seems to me like an extreme about turn. From the savior of the republic to suddenly massacaring millions without a second thought. I understand Bastilla's fall but Revan's is somewhat of a mystery to me. What made it even more difficult was the portrayal of the dark side in the game itself. I could not find myself to be able to fall to the darkside (and believe me i tried). This is because when i play an RPG i like to think beforehand how my character is going to behave and what moral codes he adheres to (of course that changes somewhat during gameplay, which is understandable). First time around i finished in the side of the light (effortlessly i might add) even though i cared little for those fundamentalist Jedi in the council and their stupid codes. Second time around i tried an approach where my character would behave more like Revan (or at least how i believed an evil genius who had world domination on his mind should act). Again i had a real hard time slipping to the dark side. The only real opportunity i saw (and the only logical one) came at the end on the top of the temple when Bastilla tells me to reclaim the mantle of the dark lord and that she would join me (an offer i could not refuse ). Even then i was barely dark enough. And then i was forced (by the game) to do something i thought was completely unnecessary (and frankly should not have been worth of my involvement) :killing Mission. Anyway what i'm saying is that in the second one i want to feel the dark side's seductive power (something that completely evaded me in the first game). And i want a chance to deny both sides a chance to claim me. The alternative to the Jedi council can't possibly be the Sith! That kind of thinking is what led Yuthura, Revan and Bastilla down the dark side in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad The Impaler Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 i dont know what led him to the dark side, they never explained it in the game too well. maybe he just liked killing people so he went on the quest for the Star Forge and got killed by Malak. I guess he just liked killing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 He had some bad coffee, and it put him a bad mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 As in the wise words of the council, Revan fell to the Ds studying ancient Sith magics... What's wrong about killing Mission when your DS? Ds means you're Eeevilll! That means you Meeann! That means you're a psycho! Get it now? This is Star Wars, which virtually means that their is only the Light and the Dark, no neutral ending...or at least there isn't supposed to be... <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightcleaver Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 The neutral ending would be the lightside ending. If they had put more into the ending than just finishing malak, though, you might actually see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 The neutral ending would be the lightside ending. If they had put more into the ending than just finishing malak, though, you might actually see that. EH??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alx1078 Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 Being A potential conqueror of the world, for me wouldn't involve proving how eeeeviiilll you are by killing off a tennager who is unable to defend herself. Granted that there are people who would do that, i believe that these kinds of people would never in amillion years succeed in conquering a galaxy or somesuch. And i disagree about Star Wars being just about light and dark sides. Jolee is neutral and i would guess that there are other characters as well who have chosen a more neutral path. (And i'm not saying neutral as in EVIL- NEUTRAL - GOOD. i mean neutral in the Sith-Jedi council equasion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NInjaPirate Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 But like Jolee most neutrals are good at heart but don't really go out of their way to do something good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 With regards to Mission, you didn't have to kill her yourself. You could get Zaalbar to do it (which is EXACTLY what a Sith Lord would do). You could convince her best friend to turn on her and kill her because she chose to oppose you. As for Revan, it was explained partially in the game. In speaking with master Zhar, he talks about Revan being his apprentice, but Revan being too eager to learn. He always wanted more information, more learning of the Force than his master's felt was ready. Thus, he went on a search for this mystical Star Forge and that's what turned him to the DS. I don't know how you missed that. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Killing mission isn't just dark side, it's stupid. Mission was an ally who was not in a position to be a threat or challange Revan. If he were a smart manipultive sith, revan would have convinced Mission he (or she) was doing what is best for the galaxy and thus not have wasted a valuable ally. Killing mission shows the stupid thug view of the dark side present in KOTOR 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 But eventually there are going to be individuals who won't be swayed by persuasion. Killing Mission was valid because she refused to side with him. Revan gave her the option of joining him/her, but she refused. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Mission was very vulnerable, and showed that she could buy into lies. She believed her brother was a good man for a long time. Only you really showed her otherwise. You could mislead her easily if the writers allowed such manipulation in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Is anyone else sensing a theme in these suggestions? People want a Dark Side game that consists of something a little more intelligent than just being mindlessly malicious to no good purpose. I hope someone out there at Obsidian is taking notes, 'cause this subject has been repeated again and again, and is obviously one of the major flaws of the first game. It's certainly my biggest beef; the game made no sense playing as a 'Sith.' I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Is anyone else sensing a theme in these suggestions? People want a Dark Side game that consists of something a little more intelligent than just being mindlessly malicious to no good purpose. I hope someone out there at Obsidian is taking notes, 'cause this subject has been repeated again and again, and is obviously one of the major flaws of the first game. It's certainly my biggest beef; the game made no sense playing as a 'Sith.' Haven't Obsidian stated in interviews that their aim is to shift from "thug" to actual darkside acts? "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Is anyone else sensing a theme in these suggestions? People want a Dark Side game that consists of something a little more intelligent than just being mindlessly malicious to no good purpose. I hope someone out there at Obsidian is taking notes, 'cause this subject has been repeated again and again, and is obviously one of the major flaws of the first game. It's certainly my biggest beef; the game made no sense playing as a 'Sith.' Haven't Obsidian stated in interviews that their aim is to shift from "thug" to actual darkside acts? If they have, I don't remember it. I hope they have. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Mission was very vulnerable, and showed that she could buy into lies. She believed her brother was a good man for a long time. Only you really showed her otherwise. You could mislead her easily if the writers allowed such manipulation in the game. If you can talk her into betraying the Hidden Beks, I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to talk her into joining the Sith. Especially since Zaalbar is obviously going to join you. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Is anyone else sensing a theme in these suggestions? People want a Dark Side game that consists of something a little more intelligent than just being mindlessly malicious to no good purpose. I hope someone out there at Obsidian is taking notes, 'cause this subject has been repeated again and again, and is obviously one of the major flaws of the first game. It's certainly my biggest beef; the game made no sense playing as a 'Sith.' Haven't Obsidian stated in interviews that their aim is to shift from "thug" to actual darkside acts? If they have, I don't remember it. I hope they have. Taken from the ValhallaGamers.com interview with Feargus Urquhart: ValhallaGamers: I "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Is anyone else sensing a theme in these suggestions? People want a Dark Side game that consists of something a little more intelligent than just being mindlessly malicious to no good purpose. I hope someone out there at Obsidian is taking notes, 'cause this subject has been repeated again and again, and is obviously one of the major flaws of the first game. It's certainly my biggest beef; the game made no sense playing as a 'Sith.' Haven't Obsidian stated in interviews that their aim is to shift from "thug" to actual darkside acts? If they have, I don't remember it. I hope they have. Taken from the ValhallaGamers.com interview with Feargus Urquhart: ValhallaGamers: I I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastaGAW Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Going to the darkside should have different paths purposes and ways in this game. For example in my darkside game most of the darkside options were just wrong or stupid so I didn't do them I gained darkside points for getting peoples money. The reason was moreso my chracacters greed instead of bullying. The next game could perhaps shape the story moreso on how you acquire the points instead of how many you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDoe Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I'd really like the ability to "corrupt" your party members as time goes on. There were glimpses of this in KOTOR 1 (Telling Mission that the beks were using her, getting Zalbaar to join up with Chundaar, etc) but nothing was really followed through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I'd really like the ability to "corrupt" your party members as time goes on. There were glimpses of this in KOTOR 1 (Telling Mission that the beks were using her, getting Zalbaar to join up with Chundaar, etc) but nothing was really followed through. I suspect this is what they mean by your actions affecting your party members. You tell Juhani to slaughter that guy, and she better damn well get some DS points as far as I'm concerned And convincing Mission should have as well. I half expected it since they had their own spectrum of light/dark, but it wasn't fully realized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alx1078 Posted June 25, 2004 Author Share Posted June 25, 2004 Deciding to reclaim the mantle of the Dark Lord gives Revan a purpose. And since all geniuses (even the evil ones) try to make every action count towards their goal, i simply see no such thing in killing Mission. In fact as someone stated above she could be a valuable ally therefore rendering the act of killing her idiotic. If for any reason she was not considered a valuable ally that would mean that she would also not pose a threat, which means that a simple spank in the tooshy and sending her off on her own would be enough for anyone. But instead you're forced to kill her just to prove how eeevill you are. A truely powerful character would not need to resolve to such petty thugish actions to prove his power. He would later on let them taste his power once his ultimate goal was realised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightcleaver Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 My problem was, How is a little girl like her going to stop you from going the dark route? Leave her there, lock her up and force her to see your way. I think it was to make the Evil side seem harder, more definitively evil. It was still silly, though, even if it made an interesting RP situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBQuirky Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Does anyone know how the hell Revan came to "fall" to the dark side? I have a theory that since Revan was wearing his robes before he ever found the Star Map on Dantooine, he was Darkside then. His robes did not change to "Darkside only" with him, did they? Revan also wore his "Darkside only" mask there! It is my belief that Revan never "fell" to the Darkside, but was a Darksider all along. I doubt the Star Forge corrupted this "greatest of Jedi's". How easy was it for Darkside Players to "fool" the Jedi council? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightcleaver Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I think he began to fall (along with a fair portion of his followers) during the mandalorian wars, but it's all just speculation. If you remember though, (Mild KotOR spoiler follows) Juhani mentions how Revan was a Jedi hero, and the reason she joined the Jedi. He wasn't all darkside then, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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