Can't choose between Monk, Priest or Druid for full series playthrough

[somebody_else24]

Hi there! Longtime lurker here finally engaging with all you lovely people. 

I'm coming back to pillars after a while and am trying to choose what to play. I generally have a huge problem constantly restarting to try different builds, and then reading everything about them and then starting something new. It's annoying. So after much consideration I've narrowed down what I want to play to monk, priest or druid. This is for the first and second game. I will probably be using community patch and the balance polishing mod btw.

I've beaten the first on hard and played through much of it on potd. I haven't played the second game as much but plan to go through it (after the first) on potd as well. But I just can't decide on a class to take all the way through both (for roleplaying reasons). Like I mentioned I settled on priest, druid, or monk. I know these are all good and strong classes in both games and I enjoy vancian casters as well as the monk's wounds system. I think I'd like to stay single class since... well I just like it more conceptually I guess? I don't know. 

Does anyone have any strong opinions on what's most fun or engaging for both games, but mostly the second? I think I'd go with priest of berath so I could mix damage and support if I went priest but I'm open to other options. Druid I'm less sure... Fury for blasting? Ancients for dots and summons and heals? The flexibility sounds nice maybe? Monk seems fun too but again I'm caught between mortar monk and forbidden fist tank monk. Serious decision paralysis. So ya, I'd love and appreciate if anyone could weigh in with what they think to help me decide.

[Boeroer]

Hi and welcome!

My strong opinion is that Monk is the best pick here. It's a fantastic (single) class both in PoE as well as in Deadfire. My favorite Monk build in both games is the ranged Monk. With PoE it's with the Long Pain as main weapon (very strong) and in Deadfire it's with dual mortars (Serafen's blunderbusses) and the Long Pain. But the Monk class is very versatile and fun with a lot of build approaches imo. 

The Druid is very nice with Spiritshift in PoE (brutal scaling of the base damage of the Spiritshift weapons for example), but as single class in Deadfire he's way better as a pure caster than with Spiritshift. Multiclassing makes Spiritshift a lot more fun. 

Priest is stronger in PoE than in Deadfire, it's still good though, also when staying with a single class . It's just not that exciting to me as the main character. Wizard and Druid have more entertaining high level spells (Power Level 8 and 9) imo. 

Tl;dr: Monk!

 

[somebody_else24]

Thank you very much Boeroer! Been a fan of your builds and info you share for years. Maybe a weird thing to say to a random forum person but oh well haha. Would the monk build you recommend for the first game be the witch doctor build you posted? 

[Chaospread]

Hi, welcome

Do you play SOLO or in a party?

My favorite class in all rpg is Druid, I have made a run solo potd in the first game and I have to import it in the second (I'll go for Fury or maybe a mod towards burn spiritshift instead of shock). Druid are very good in poe1 but less powerful in poe2, sure a fun class for multiclassing.

I have just finished a run with a shaman corpse eater - priest of berath imported from a poe1 priest of berath. Priest are weak early level in poe1 but very powerful end levels (I say second class as power behind wizard), and quite the same poe2, but without mod a priest is a class that can beat megabosses with SoT and BDD. So powerful but a little boring and difficult first level. Best as multiclass in poe2 as 8 and 9 priest spells are almost useless, best levels are 6 and 7. Maybe with mods they work better also as single class.

I don't like monks too much because they are too much powerful for me

Indeed, I think they are the best martial class: they are great DD, very good as CC (stun and so on), quick and strong attacks and debuffs, maybe better than rogue for single enemy kill, can also manage large group of foe, they have one of the most powerful summon of the game, resonance touch can kill ANYBODY, plenty of passives and abilities you don't know which choose... They are good also single class, and in poe2 they have very nice subclass.

So if you wish a single class powerful pg, I'd go for monk... but it depends also on your playing style. Monk/Druid could be a powerful and very fun multiclass, in case

[somebody_else24]

Hi Chaospread,

I'll be playing with a party of story characters. What makes druids less powerful in poe2? 

[limaxophobiacq]

I'm a big priest fan, priest of Berath in Deadfire is solid for a single-classed caster (Wael and Skaen priests are usually better for multiclasses). Berath priest gets the very nice druid spell Touch of Rot as a bonus spells at level 1 which is very good AoE damage for a level 1 spell, and Symbol of Berath does corrosion which is not often resisted and inflicts a tier 2 constitution debuff, this effectively multiplies it's damage since it lowers enemy health and also reduces enemy fortitude saves which effectively improves its accuracy after the first hit since it rolls against fortitude. With high int and might and the White Void helm Berath priest can really melt groups of enemies at high level. Dual-wield slayers-claw (+2 penetration for spells with minor avatar) + griffins blade (with +10% spell damage enchant) while wearing Helm of the White Void (+10 accuracy) and cast minor avatar -> Symbol of Berath for maximum damage.

For PoE1 priest is also really fun, how can you not be smile when you buff yourself with +10 to all attributes with Minor Avatar +  Aggrandizing Radiance and your Storm of Holy Fire covers the entire screen?

Edit: For deadfire only i would think monk might be the most fun though, but I'm not a big fan of them in PoE1.

Edited April 26 by limaxophobiacq

[Chaospread]

On 4/26/2024 at 11:29 PM, somebody_else24 said:

Hi Chaospread,

I'll be playing with a party of story characters. What makes druids less powerful in poe2? 

First of all, in a party a Druid can be more fun than a Monk because he can meke more roles (CC, DD, Healer), but other considerations about why choose monk remain.

Druids are less powerful in PoE2 for many reasons:

1. as Boeroer said, wildstrike abilities/talents in Poe1 are far more effective than in Poe2;
2. as a consequence of first point, and for other little aspects (i.e. element talents/abilities like Scion of Flame which work in Poe1 for wildstrike don't work in Poe2), spiritshift is weaker in poe2;
3. elemental talents/abilities (Scion of Flame, Hearth of the Storm) is more useful in Poe1 for boosting spell damage and Druids have many elemental damage spells (above all shock and burn). +1 PEN in poe2 is weaker as effect;
4. best druid spell in poe1 (Relentless Storm) is less good in poe2, stun are better contrasted in the second game, while in the first maybe is the best spell considering also any other caster class;
5. in poe1 all pg are single class and they are not perfectly balanced but you can compensate easily (with scrolls and items in particularly) but not in poe2: druids miss most of all confusion, paralysis and charming/dominating scrolls/items not present in poe2;
6. they have bad tier 6, 7, 8 and 9 spells, only exceptions are Great Maelstrom and Avenging Storm (but this one is maybe better in poe1). So single class is near a non-sense powerful-wise for a druid, they can skip tier 8 and 9 for a multiclass optrion. In poe1 all are single class, so this is not a problem and spiritshift last levels balances out for weak spells (not as in poe2);
   as @thelee pointed out (and I will never end to thanks him ), Pollen Patch with Least Unstable Coil is cheesing in practice (an almost endless source of Briliiant), Avenging Storm and Great Maelstrom are very great spells, so it isn't true that last level Druid spells are so bad. But, excluding tier 9 spells that you don't have in poe1, tier 6, 7 and 8 spell seem better in poe1 than poe2 (Rotten Skull and Sunlance more powerful in the first game i.e.);
7. many spells work better in Poe1: Taste of the Hunt, Form of the Delemgan, Rot Skulls and many are more case of use (Charme/Hold Beasts);
8. subclass doesn't add much to class, indeed, maybe disadvantages are worst than how are the benefits; SOLO maybe fury or shifter can go but power-wise maybe better stick on Animist, in a group Lifegiver as a sense but also here: perhaps more loss than benefit... (to be true Shifter can be a good choice). In poe1 plain-old-single-class Druid can do almost all roles very good without problems/detriments/thoughts etc...
9. Spell system: learning all spells without spending ability points is a very great thing;
10. a part Lord Darryn's Voulge (but it can't go over superb level) better soulbound items in poe1 for druids
11. better passives/abilities and  many more to choose in poe1.

There are only one exception: Watershaper. If you manage to play Tekehu or a mod for playing such a subclass, it is very powerful with many great spells foe-only

Or maybe there are some things in poe2 for druids better of poe1: great maelstrom at level 9, touch of rot at level 1 (deleted in poe1, who knows why...) and empower spells works good with poe2 druids.

Edited April 30 by Chaospread

[somebody_else24]

What do you think of ancients druid and boosting their dot spells with plant and beast power levels?

[Chaospread]

It could be a valid alternative to try, certainly interesting.

Venonbloom, Insect Swarm and Plague of Insects can reach very good damage.
To be checked if summons benefit enough of beast power levels (with HP and duration) to protect you during DoT damage...
Ancients downsides are limited in effect and there are enough items to buff plant and beast power levels, you need to pay attention to firearms and vessel encounters, but all these are situational.
Moreover, the working principle of the build favors single class to achieve max power levels.
And some other spells can benefit of power levels in a few kind situations like hold and charm beasts (accuracy and duration), talon's reach, vile thorns and stag horn damage and accuracy, CC with vile thorns, wall of thorns and so <-- these are good also in a party also with support like form of delemgan, beetle shell and woodskin and healing as pollen patch and Garden of Life.
Really good idea, to try, it can work also in solo "grinding" px early levels with no combat quests (because early levels he would be enough weak).

Most depend on bugs, balance, mod that you use etc., but on paper it can go on.
I don't have time now to try it, but you have put in my mind a good attempt, maybe in the future
Maybe @Boeroer can come up with a complete and very effective idea for such a build

Edit:
Oh, and it is also a great opportunity for a nice role playing background and run!

Edited April 28 by Chaospread

[Chaospread]

It could be a valid alternative to try, certainly interesting.

Venonbloom, Insect Swarm and Plague of Insects can reach very good damage.
To be checked if summons benefit enough of beast power levels (with HP and duration) to protect you during DoT damage...
Ancients downsides are limited in effect and there are enough items to buff plant and beast power levels, you need to pay attention to firearms and vessel encounters, but all these are situational.
Moreover, the working principle of the build favors single class to achieve max power levels.
And some other spells can benefit of power levels in a few kind situations like hold and charm beasts (accuracy and duration), talon's reach, vile thorns and stag horn damage and accuracy, CC with vile thorns, wall of thorns and so <-- these are good also in a party also with support like form of delemgan, beetle shell and woodskin and healing as pollen patch and Garden of Life.
Really good idea, to try, it can work also in solo "grinding" px early levels with no combat quests (because early levels he would be enough weak).

Most depend on bugs, balance, mod that you use etc., but on paper it can go on.
I don't have time now to try it, but you have put in my mind a good attempt, maybe in the future
Maybe @Boeroer can come up with a complete and very effective idea for such a build

[somebody_else24]

Thanks for all the info chaospread. I've been running through with monk and having fun but I might try a caster for a bit too just to see how I feel. Do you think wiz is better than druid or priest? I didn't mention them but I suppose I should consider them. Mostly alongside trying monk I want to try a powerful caster. Damage focused but maybe capable of some other roles when necessary.

[Boeroer]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:54 PM, somebody_else24 said:

Thank you very much Boeroer! Been a fan of your builds and info you share for years. Maybe a weird thing to say to a random forum person but oh well haha. Would the monk build you recommend for the first game be the witch doctor build you posted? 

Yes, indeed. But one mustn'd follow it in detail to make an enjoyable ranged or melee/ranged hybrid Monk. With that build I just tried to maximize the power of the Long Pain at the expense of durability. But it was a lot of fun to play anyway.

If you like casters then I think Druid is still a nice pick. I personally like single class Druid in Deadfire because especially Great Maelstrom are just bonkers and there's some crazy stuff to do with Avenging Storm and certain items (for example the Great Sword "Effort"). But maybe Great Maelstrom isn't superfitting for an Ancient - I mean thematically.

By the way: Helwalker (Monk subclass) + Ancient Druid multiclass makes for a nasty combo with those beast/plant DoT and pulsing spells. Helwalker provides accuracy, penetration and up to +10 INT and +10 MIG which is great these spells. Conbined with some bonus Power Levels you will have good spell damage, AoE size (which also influences the foe-only area), duration and accuracy and you can also be great with Spiritshift because the Monk abilities synergize very well with Spiritshift & Wildstrike. One could play Druid in PoE and pretend he always had some monkish traits - and then do a Helwalker/Ancient in Deadfire. 

 

[Chaospread]

Quote

Thanks for all the info chaospread. I've been running through with monk and having fun but I might try a caster for a bit too just to see how I feel. Do you think wiz is better than druid or priest? I didn't mention them but I suppose I should consider them. Mostly alongside trying monk I want to try a powerful caster. Damage focused but maybe capable of some other roles when necessary.

Wizard is the most powerful class in Poe1 and maybe also the best in Poe2, the fun thing is that for me Priest is the second more powerful class in Poe1 and the first in Poe2
Wizard in Poe1 start so weak, in SOLo you have to stelath all the first areas but last levels they become as a demigod, 7th and 8th tier spells are very strong that you can choose how of them cast to make fun and first tiers grant also very strong buffs to you that "martial" wizard is a force of nature in the first game. I try a run with a wizard and I know what I'm saying
Poe2 I think wizard is always strong and the same concepts can stay, subclasses are not really good but bloodmage that can beat the game solo in the ultimate challenge
A part from this, you have Wall of Draining that can "cheese" the game even if you aren't a bloodmage. Aside cheesing tatcticts wizard is indeed a mighty class also single class because with empowerment spells (especially last tier spells) can reach damage high-to-the-sky

Priest is similar to Wizard in poe1, start weak but last levels, with minor avatar and others self buffs they can "easily" destroy anything In poe2 with SoT and BBD is the strongest class, without cheesing tactis they loss some value, single class particularly because last level tier spells in poe2 are not very "beautiful" unless some deities: Skaen is always a great pick, Magran is good and Berath isn't so bad In both games they are very good as support in a party, but for my playstyle, in a party I don't like palying supporting character.

Druids are fun anyway because of spiritshift and cause they can achieve many roles, but less powerful than wizards and priests and they can be difficult to keep alive also last levels.

So if you wanna play a strong and fun caster, I'd say go for a wizard, I enjoyed it in Poe1 even if I'm a druid fan I think I'd fell the same trying both classes in poe2

Edited April 28 by Chaospread

[somebody_else24]

@Boeroer cool. Thanks.

I'm not married to ancient druid. Because you like maelstrom and avenging storm so much do you prefer fury or some other subclass? Do those things with avenging storm work with the community patch and (haven't fully decided) the balance polishing mod?

[thelee]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:03 AM, Chaospread said:

they have bad tier 6, 7, 8 and 9 spells, only exceptions are Great Maelstrom and Avenging Storm (but this one is maybe better in poe1). So single class is near a non-sense powerful-wise for a druid, they can skip tier 8 and 9 for a multiclass optrion.

i have strong disagreements with this. Great Maelstrom, Tornado, Pollen Patch are absolutely abusively powerful tier 9 spells. A single-class druid can carry a party in the way a single-class monk can. They're so powerful they honestly make the game boring, even on PotD with challenges. Avenging Storm is obviously very cheesy. The only tier I think there are gaps is tier 7.

[Chaospread]

Thanks for your contribution. I haven't played a Druid yet in Poe2 so these are more "feelings", I'll tell you maybe once I'll try it

In the meanwhile I keep thinking 6 tier wiz and priest is better than druid, 8 you have only avenging storm in practice (despite it is almost cheese) and 9 tornado is too slow, and if you have great maelstrom you ended to cast only it. I don't like "trail" spell like pollen patch and I play solo, does revive effect of Pollen Patch work in/for solo? If so I can say level 9 spells are good indeed.

But what I wanna say is: isn't better (read it as "more powerful") "multiclass" for a Druid instead of having 8 and 9 single class spells?

 

Edited April 29 by Chaospread

[thelee]

3 hours ago, Chaospread said:

In the meanwhile I keep thinking 6 tier wiz and priest is better than druid, 8 you have only avenging storm in practice (despite it is almost cheese) and 9 tornado is too slow, and if you have great maelstrom you ended to cast only it. I don't like "trail" spell like pollen patch and I play solo, does revive effect of Pollen Patch work in/for solo? If so I can say level 9 spells are good indeed.

tier 6 priest is better than anything because that's where they Salvation of Time which unlocks so much cheese . if you play fairly, I think tier 6 druid is still very very good. venombloom and garden of life are primo. rot skulls is great if you install the deadfire BPM (bugfixes at least) so it doesn't have 0 PEN. the other spells are still decent (i made a lot of use of blights in one of my last runs, they come with repeating abilities that can be very handy; sunlance isn't as good as in poe1 (no lash) but still can do a great amount of single-target damage).

you're right that tier 8 you pretty much only have avenging storm in practice, but even if you play it "fairly" it's very very good IMO.

the reason why pollen patch is so good is because if you empower it while wearing least unstable coil, each heal tick procs another inspiration (and you can proc extra heal ticks through some interactions with movement), eventually netting you brilliant. and the way empower on buffs works, if you re-cast pollen patch normally, the game still "remembers" the original empowered status, so you have a built-in perpetual resource regeneration. great for solo, extremely great in parties (since the entire time you're proccing inspirations you're also healing your party). if you play fairly, not too useful solo, but still very very good for parties, it's an immense amount of total healing that also revives, great for longer fights (where greater maelstrom might not finish off the fight).

tornado is still a great level 9 spell, it's just that it gets utterly demolished by greater maelstrom (as does pretty much any other spell IMO in terms of ending fights). if you want to do something "different" it's still a great alternative choice.

i think the only real loser is the shapeshifting one at tier 9.

Edited April 29 by thelee

[somebody_else24]

@thelee

Hello! Thanks for your input here. Love your guide. Do you have any opinions on the choices between monk, priest, druid, and wiz for a full playthrough of both games? Thanks.

[Chaospread]

18 hours ago, thelee said:

the reason why pollen patch is so good is because if you empower it while wearing least unstable coil, each heal tick procs another inspiration (and you can proc extra heal ticks through some interactions with movement), eventually netting you brilliant. and the way empower on buffs works, if you re-cast pollen patch normally, the game still "remembers" the original empowered status, so you have a built-in perpetual resource regeneration. great for solo, extremely great in parties (since the entire time you're proccing inspirations you're also healing your party).

Ok, if PP synergies with LUC you've change my mind and I withdraw what I said

But, the initial question was "why poe2 durid are less powerful of poe1?" and so, we have to exclude tier 9 cause it doesn't exist in poe1, and as we are saying, tier 6, 7 and 8 are better in poe1, aren't they?

Anyway I'll bar the point in my list and will specify better

I have two question for you @thelee if you'll bo so kind to answer:

1. wasn't Rot Skull patched? i'm running a Priest of Berath and it seems to me that penetration now is 6. Maybe priest spell isn't bugged and druid's is? See my sreenshot, its PEN also scales:
   
2. I have tried Entropy with Tehenu. On the paper it seems to me a great spell, maybe the effects wearing off after 3 hits give to the spell more power... with more hits (10 or to the end of combat) would it be a great tier 8 spells?

Thanks for having open my eyes and mind

Edited April 30 by Chaospread

[Boeroer]

On 4/28/2024 at 8:41 PM, somebody_else24 said:

@Boeroer cool. Thanks.

I'm not married to ancient druid. Because you like maelstrom and avenging storm so much do you prefer fury or some other subclass? Do those things with avenging storm work with the community patch and (haven't fully decided) the balance polishing mod?

Sorry, I typed an answer direktly after you posted the question but I must have failed to send it then.

Fury fits Avenging Storm/Great Maelstrom perfectly from a thematic standpoint - but usually I shy away from it because imo the rel. minor upside doesn't outweigh the loss of healing powers. It's okay though if there's enough other sources of healing in the party.

CP makes it so that Avenging Storm only procs off of weapon rolls that deal damage. That will remove the whole Effort trick. But you can simply delete  or rename the according file in the mod folder. Just search for "avenging_storm" in the mod folder (see below) and delete or rename that file as I did below (I simply added ".deactivated" to the file name) - and Avenging Storm will work like in the vanilla game while the rest of the CP will be unchanged. 

[thelee]

7 hours ago, Chaospread said:

But, the initial question was "why poe2 durid are less powerful of poe1?" and so, we have to exclude tier 9 cause it doesn't exist in poe1, and as we are saying, tier 6, 7 and 8 are better in poe1, aren't they?

well, the question can't be answered by directly comparing abilities and tiers between games, the question really has to be answered by how the classes actually perform within the context of their games. relative to poe1, i don't think druids had anything remotely like tier 9 spells in terms of overall impact in poe1, which makes them better in poe2. same thing with their heals - in poe1 their heals had problems with not stacking with each other or with vaguely similar abilities (barbarian regen and even fighter recovery iirc), whereas in deadfire they stack with everything if they're not just robust inspirations, which makes them much better as healers in deadfire.

 

7 hours ago, Chaospread said:

wasn't Rot Skull patched? i'm running a Priest of Berath and it seems to me that penetration now is 6. Maybe priest spell isn't bugged and druid's is? See my sreenshot, its PEN also scales:

maybe it's different? i definitely ended up installing the BPM (bugfixes only) as a fix, and it's listed as one of the things that it fixes. it could be that the priest of berath spell always worked correctly.

[Lamppost in Winter]

Per your guide the pen bug is just the AoE and not the direct hit, so that might be what the combat log is showing?

[Boeroer]

11 hours ago, thelee said:

well, the question can't be answered by directly comparing abilities and tiers between games, the question really has to be answered by how the classes actually perform within the context of their games. relative to poe1, i don't think druids had anything remotely like tier 9 spells in terms of overall impact in poe1, which makes them better in poe2. same thing with their heals - in poe1 their heals had problems with not stacking with each other or with vaguely similar abilities (barbarian regen and even fighter recovery iirc), whereas in deadfire they stack with everything if they're not just robust inspirations, which makes them much better as healers in deadfire.

On the other hand Relentless Storm was MUCH better in PoE1 (faster pulses, longer stuns) and the Druid could lock down whole groups of enemies with just this spell.

On the third hand (huh? ) the Deadfire Druid has a lot of healing capabilities - and healing is much more impactful in Deadfire than it is in PoE. Just because PoE1 had the endurance/health mechanic that made healing endurance only viable if your health (that was only regenerating properly via rest) wasn't running low. 

Then, when we look at the forth hand (which might as well be a tentacle...) the PoE1 Druid had amazing single target damage potential with Spiritshift, better than Rogues or Rangers (even if only for a limited time) which gave him versatility: some rusher broke through and started attacking your backline with that Druid? *pouf* *roar* *pummel-pummel* Done!

In Deadfire it feels you have to either commit more to the shifting part of the Druid (by creating a fitting multiclass which robs you of Maelstrom and Avenging Storm etc.) or to the casting side. 

[Chaospread]

17 hours ago, thelee said:

well, the question can't be answered by directly comparing abilities and tiers between games, the question really has to be answered by how the classes actually perform within the context of their games. relative to poe1, i don't think druids had anything remotely like tier 9 spells in terms of overall impact in poe1, which makes them better in poe2

I wouldn't think like that because if you put a direct comparison I could say poe1 Druids can reach only level 12 in vanilla game while they reach 20 level in poe2, so poe2 Druids is better for sure.
And it is still valid also with level 16 of DLCs. More than a direct comparison mine is more a comparison of strength of Druids among other classes in both games and why for me (and not only me, I see) poe1 Druid seems (or is) stronger than poe2 druid.

17 hours ago, thelee said:

maybe it's different? i definitely ended up installing the BPM (bugfixes only) as a fix, and it's listed as one of the things that it fixes. it could be that the priest of berath spell always worked correctly.

I'll try to check Berath spell and Druid spell and will let you know

Edit: ok, tested, as @Lamppost in Winter has pointed out AoE Corrode damage effects has 0 PEN, also Berath version:

Edited May 1 by Chaospread