Fassina as (main) Tank?

[mjo2138]

Hello everyone - I am playing as an SC Skald in a party with Eder (Fighter) Aloth (Spellblade) Watcher (SC Skald) Pallegina (Hearld) and Fassina (Conjuruer). I really can't believe I failed to utilize her as a battlemage years ago. I wrote her off as a useless sidekick, when in fact the opposite it true. 

1. So my main question is, how would you play Fassina as a main tank. If I remove Eder, then I get another party member who can be a flanker for enemies backlines, such as a Monk,Rogue, Barbarian. On the other hand, Eder has great utility by providing an additional pet slot.  My thoughts are to buff Fassina with the typical wizard buffs still available to Conjurers  (Llengraths Safeguard/Spirit Shield, DAoM, Vital Essence, Arcane Veil), and use weapon summons based on the enemies weaknesses in any given fight -Draining Touch for will , Parasitic Quarterstaff for crush, and Spirit Lance overall. However, I wonder if Spirit lance should be the go to meta , even though I lack any martial abilities to be applied witin the AoE of Spirit Lance. 

Of course, by the time I get Blackbow, that will change the approach. Then, using Enchanted Armory means I can  revert back to melee. Suprisingly, there are a lot of choices for what a SC Conjuruer can do. I can even focus on CCs (Combusting Wound/Chill Fog/ Misama's for a fight , and that will take up a lot of action economy. 

 

2. Less related question, but what are your typical party composition in terms of roles: I usually run:

-Tank/Engager - take the hits/engage front line most

-Flanker/Ganker - hits enemies back lines (Eder does this well as a Rogue/Swashbuckler

-Support/Buffer/Healer (Priest, Paladin/ Chanter)

-CC/AoE nuker/debuff (Wizard or Druid, for example) 

 

What is less apparent is how many 'tanks' are needed, since having offensive firepower in the backlines means you can get rushed quite easily, esp. in difficult fights that matter (such as Splintered Reefs, or many others in DLC). Having 1-2 priests allows you to use BDD and SoT to avoid this, but it feels 'cheesy' (I play with Community Patch and only the Summoning rebalance from BPM ) 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[kronozord]

I dont think Fassina works well as a main tank because although most of the buffs have zero cast time and near zero recovery the summoned weapon doesn't, you have to wait that she goes through a full Sailor Moon transformation before she becomes operational.

You could argue that she could start tanking then summon a weapon but dont forget that she doesn't have additional engagement slots and you have to rely on items to help you achieve that. IMHO think she works better as a secondary tank.

My party composition is something like you described, I only use 2 tanks, a main to hold aggro and a secondary with higher mobility because taking down priests/wizards and chanters is normally a top priority.

Also i have 5th element as single target DPS.

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by kronozord

[mjo2138]

3 minutes ago, kronozord said:

I dont think Fassina works well as a main tank because although most of the buffs have zero cast time and near zero recovery the summoned weapon don't, you have to wait that she goes trough a full Sailor Moon transformation before she becomes operational.

You could argue that she could start tanking then summon a weapon but dont forget that she doesn't have additional engagement slots and have to rely on items to do that. i think she works better as a secondary tank.

My party composition is something like you described, I only use 2 tanks, a main to hold aggro and a secondary with higher mobility because taking down priests/wizards and chanters is normally a top priority.

Also i have 5th element as single target DPS.

 

Those are some good points.  Yes without the summons she is really just an auto attacker, which a priest could do , too.  I do love her Blackbow for Terrify, and usually it has a good uptime. But yeah, once the summon expires it sucks. 

Do you like Maia for single target DPS or a melee class? 

[kronozord]

You can say that about anyone, without what it makes them special they are all just auto attackers.

If the bow expires use the summoned lance or the summoned staff etc and you can always empower to use the black bow again or use a cipher to cast brilliant on you.

And Fassina still has some damaging spells like necrotic lance or my personal favorite death ring, she is not useless without the weapons.

Maia is probably the best companion for DPS  just give her The Red Hand.

[masterty66]

Losing illusion spells kinda stinks for tanking but she'd still have Spirit Armor, Ironskins, and Llengrath's Safeguard so I don't see why she wouldn't be capable of tanking if you really wanted to. Heavy Armor + those armor buffs and Llengraths should make her quite sturdy.

I think the issue more than defenses would be the lack of engagement slots. 

[Boeroer]

10 hours ago, masterty66 said:

I think the issue more than defenses would be the lack of engagement slots. 

In the early game you don't need them so much. Later she can use items such as Reckless Brigandine and Kapana Taga & shield for 4 engagement slots + Essential Phantom for another 4.

Wouldn't be my preferreed role for her either though.

When I am using Fassina as SC Wizard I almost always end up with gear (Ring of the Marksman, Helm of the White Void, High Harbinger's Robe etc.) tailored towards the use of the Blackbow + Essential Phantom - because it's just so efficient and effective in most encounters on top of the other spells.

[mjo2138]

12 hours ago, kronozord said:

You can say that about anyone, without what it makes them special they are all just auto attackers.

If the bow expires use the summoned lance or the summoned staff etc and you can always empower to use the black bow again or use a cipher to cast brilliant on you.

And Fassina still has some damaging spells like necrotic lance or my personal favorite death ring, she is not useless without the weapons.

Maia is probably the best companion for DPS  just give her The Red Hand.

That's true. I liked reading your Fassina guide that focus on using her Poison spells. I love those spells, actually. I wish that skeletons and vessels were not immune to those AND piercing, however! Still, those spells decimate most mobs. 

10 hours ago, masterty66 said:

Losing illusion spells kinda stinks for tanking but she'd still have Spirit Armor, Ironskins, and Llengrath's Safeguard so I don't see why she wouldn't be capable of tanking if you really wanted to. Heavy Armor + those armor buffs and Llengraths should make her quite sturdy.

I think the issue more than defenses would be the lack of engagement slots. 

Yeah that's true. Mobs can easily run past her to the backlines, which kinda defeats the purpose of her as a tank. The more I think about it, having a a Monk (Xoti, Rekke) is better because they never have to worry about losing the buffs, esp. due to arcane dampener.  In fact, Monks can interrupt wizards before they cast those spells. I think the meta for Fassina is more about Blackbow, and then using poison spells, debuffs, or the ever useful Jernaught's Equalizing Burst.   

I was thinking it would have been better for Conjurers to still have access to Evocation and Illusion, but have some other kinda Malus. It really hurts losing BOTH those schools, especially Ryngrims' Enervating Terror

[mjo2138]

5 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

In the early game you don't need them so much. Later she can use items such as Reckless Brigandine and Kapana Taga & shield for 4 engagement slots + Essential Phantom for another 4.

Wouldn't be my preferreed role for her either though.

When I am using Fassina as SC Wizard I almost always end up with gear (Ring of the Marksman, Helm of the White Void, High Harbinger's Robe etc.) tailored towards the use of the Blackbow + Essential Phantom - because it's just so efficient and effective in most encounters on top of the other spells.

Yeah that is a good idea.  That is pretty good accuracy , too! Great suggestion about increasing the engagements! 

[kronozord]

19 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

That's true. I liked reading your Fassina guide that focus on using her Poison spells. I love those spells, actually. I wish that skeletons and vessels were not immune to those AND piercing, however! Still, those spells decimate most mobs. 

Yeah that's true. Mobs can easily run past her to the backlines, which kinda defeats the purpose of her as a tank. The more I think about it, having a a Monk (Xoti, Rekke) is better because they never have to worry about losing the buffs, esp. due to arcane dampener.  In fact, Monks can interrupt wizards before they cast those spells. I think the meta for Fassina is more about Blackbow, and then using poison spells, debuffs, or the ever useful Jernaught's Equalizing Burst.   

I was thinking it would have been better for Conjurers to still have access to Evocation and Illusion, but have some other kinda Malus. It really hurts losing BOTH those schools, especially Ryngrims' Enervating Terror

If you want spell casting power with her you have to multiclass her with druid.

You will lose the black bow but the druid versatility in insane. You cast all the druids DoTs spells on top of combusting wounds and melt the entire battlefield.

Even when you run out of druid spells you can still go meele with the summoned weapons and being in the front lines with a cast relentless storm is just the icing on the cake.

[Boeroer]

Yeah - the good thing about Fassina's Druid class ist that she has the cat form for her spiritshift. This can be used to cast very quickly at the start of combat: no armor penalty and cat flurry (on top of Alacrity's DEX bonus etc.) let you cast a lot of spells during the speed buff duration - like the ones @kronozord mentioned for example.

[mjo2138]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:53 AM, kronozord said:

If you want spell casting power with her you have to multiclass her with druid.

You will lose the black bow but the druid versatility in insane. You cast all the druids DoTs spells on top of combusting wounds and melt the entire battlefield.

Even when you run out of druid spells you can still go meele with the summoned weapons and being in the front lines with a cast relentless storm is just the icing on the cake.

That is a great suggestion. Yeah those dots are so good, on top of combusting wounds. 

On 7/10/2023 at 6:52 AM, Boeroer said:

Yeah - the good thing about Fassina's Druid class ist that she has the cat form for her spiritshift. This can be used to cast very quickly at the start of combat: no armor penalty and cat flurry (on top of Alacrity's DEX bonus etc.) let you cast a lot of spells during the speed buff duration - like the ones @kronozord mentioned for example.

The wizard buffs are really good for any class. Actually I played Maia as a Geomancer, and she was very sturdy thanks to Llengraths' defensive spells, +20 accuracy (Citizial Martial Power), and +DEX, INT and CON helped. I will try Fassina as a sorcerer next time. 

[NotDumbEnough]

Wizards in general do not make great tanks in PoE2. The AI in this game tends to stick to the first enemy they engage and never move again unless they have an ability to break engagement and someone else is doing large amounts of damage. Therefore you want your tanks to run towards the enemy ASAP, but wizards tend to spend the first few seconds of combat just casting self-buff spells. Not to mention that most of the wizard self buffs tend to prioritize damage avoidance and therefore dissuade the enemy from approaching.

[Boeroer]

51 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Wizards in general do not make great tanks in PoE2. The AI in this game tends to stick to the first enemy they engage and never move again unless they have an ability to break engagement and someone else is doing large amounts of damage. Therefore you want your tanks to run towards the enemy ASAP, but wizards tend to spend the first few seconds of combat just casting self-buff spells. Not to mention that most of the wizard self buffs tend to prioritize damage avoidance and therefore dissuade the enemy from approaching.

?

First of all: in 99% of cases your party can start the encounter stealthed with only the tank unstealthed. So a wizard tank can just unstealth and let the enemies come while casting self buffs.

In cases were this doesn't work the wizard tank can just run towards the enemies and take the first few blows and start buffing once they engagaged. It's not like a wizard with a general defensive setup gets one-shot without buffs or anything. 

I played even Aloth as SC Wizard "tank" and it works well enough (unless countless Arcane Dampeners kept getting dropped on him - which can become a problem). 

My main issue is that all the self-buffing becomes really tedious and at the same time pretty boring at some point.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Boeroer

[kronozord]

You could try the loremaster combo for fassina and spam summons so they do the tanking for you.

Im not sure if the chanter summons stacks with the wizard phantom, but if they do you will flooding the battlefield with creatures, i never tried tough it feels like an awkward combination for a conjuror.

Edited July 11, 2023 by kronozord

[Boeroer]

7 hours ago, kronozord said:

Im not sure if the chanter summons stacks with the wizard phantom

Nope. Except Many Lives Pass By - they "stack" with other summons. For the rest it's either Essential Phantom xor Chanter summons.