Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 6

[Sarex]

Blackwater was so weird. Everything was hard right up until the boss which you oneshot.

edit: I am way overleveled for the ivory sanctum. It's almost comical after blackwater, everyone is just exploding as soon as they appear.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Sarex

[xzar_monty]

So, I have now arrived at the Enigma. I have done exactly one puzzle so far. At this point, I'm quite prepared to bet that this is not a popular part of the game. Bygod, this looks like a long haul that is not going to have an equivalent reward at the end.

[uuuhhii]

use a 40 minute video for enigma everytime

 

[xzar_monty]

I resorted to a guide very quickly, although not a video one. I actually wonder which percentage of players that have completed Enigma have completed it on their own. I suppose it would not be difficult, as such, but it would be extremely time-consuming and frustrating.

I also turned down the difficulty. Can't see much point in all the excessive fighting anymore: I'm millions of XP points above level cap and I hardly even check the loot anymore. Heck, the fights are pure grind at this point, and I don't enjoy it.

This is a good game, but obviously I'm not going to buy Owlcat products in the future (for other reasons). However, I'm still curious about the reception Enigma got and Owlcat's future response to the reception (if any).

[Zoraptor]

Fair to say that most people hated Enigma and either skip it or use a guide.

Personally I thought it was OK. The puzzles aren't particularly hard, once you know what they want, but they're very badly (or barely) explained and there are far, far, far too many of them at once. Far too much combat too, though that's a general criticism of the game not just the specific area. Most of it is there at least trivial and easy to blow through in a few minutes at most, and the ones that aren't are better designed/ more interesting than most filler combats. And I actually liked the final fight despite it having what is usually a super annoying structure.

Oh yeah, and their response was to ask if the 2nd tranche of dlc should have a dlc dedicated to puzzles. Pretty sure that was trolling. Pretty sure.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Zoraptor

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Oh yeah, and their response was to ask if the 2nd tranche of dlc should have a dlc dedicated to puzzles.

Ha! Actually, I appreciate that. Cruel in the extreme, but funny precisely because of that.

The tic-tac-toe puzzles are easy if you've played the game as a child, but the ones where you have to pair the symbols are just annoying. I mean, there's essentially nothing there to solve, you just have to remember or take notes and then join the pairs. It's not a challenge, it just takes some time. Not very good design, in my view.

Also, couldn't agree more on the amount of combat in the game. Heck, here's some elementary math: do away with half of all the combat, and the game will be twice as good. Seriously.

Edited January 29, 2023 by xzar_monty

[uuuhhii]

the worst part of owlcat puzzle is not that they are awful annoying unpopular and make no sense

is that owlcat keep insist on putting more and more of these puzzle in their game

it is like one designer in owlcat just convinced they are some kind of puzzle making genius and have a unending hate and desire to torture for player

Edited January 30, 2023 by uuuhhii

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, uuuhhii said:

the worst part of owlcat puzzle is not that they are awful annoying unpopular and make no sense

is that owlcat keep insist on putting more and more of these puzzle in their game

it is like one designer in owlcat just convinced they are some kind of puzzle making genius and have a unending hate and desire to torture for player

the more people complain, the more owlcat digs in. after the initial post release complaints 'bout enigma, loot drops were altered so you needed complete enigma to finish another quest-- enigma were made more integral following the deluge o' complaints.

and no, the enigma puzzles ain't sooper difficult, but they is unnecessarily obtuse. the memory games is fine for Gromnir, but we got a kinda built-in cheat for those. however, the logic puzzles invariably have multiple correct potential responses which results in a few trial-and-error solutions which is not fun. and how likely is the player who has never done enigma knowing to keep track o' wall symbols, symbols which is possible to miss in any event depending on the route you took, so chances are once you realize you need wall symbols to complete a puzzle you need backtrack through much o' enigma.  *groan* solutions is not clever. tedious. 

enigma is rinse and repeat combat plus considerable unnecessary backtracking to complete puzzles and face a boss which is all too familiar once you do the storyteller quest.

but yeah, the most curious aspect is owlcat response to the complaints. the more that fans complain, the more owlcat jokes 'bout fan complaints.

edit: also mentioned previous, but is worth repeating how the developers designed enigma to be one o' the more golem and undead saturated portions o' wotr, and as a companion quest, such were not the result o' paizo content. sans mods, nenio is an illusionist and chances are most players who challenge enigma on their first attempt is gonna tackle the content with a nenio who is gonna have a better than fair chance o' being built to take advantage o' illusion spells. duh. at the very least, first time nenio quest victims is gonna have the kitsune memorizing a considerable number o' less than useful spells. sure, with one rest you may swap out the useless spells, but adding the undead and golems were owlcat's choice. is just another example o' owlcat being owlcat?

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 30, 2023 by Gromnir

[xzar_monty]

Okay, finished the game now. Azata. Did a jump at the very end, I don't know if anything else was realistically possible. Heck, might as well jump, as they sing...

Good game, but it does get a bit tedious towards the end, although the final conversations are good. A return visit to a certain lab sometime before that was surprising, and also good. The thing with the big demons was that they were very impressive and scary the first couple of times, but towards the end there's an overabundance of them and I sort of went ho-hum, this isn't all that great to be honest. The story can probably pan out a number of ways given your alignment, mythic path and other choices, but there's no way I'm even going to check any of that. In fact, I already uninstalled the game.

Not a classic, but worth it. BG2 and PoE/Deadfire still remain the top games for me, in this genre.

Edited January 30, 2023 by xzar_monty

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

9 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

the worst part of owlcat puzzle is not that they are awful annoying unpopular and make no sense

is that owlcat keep insist on putting more and more of these puzzle in their game

it is like one designer in owlcat just convinced they are some kind of puzzle making genius and have a unending hate and desire to torture for player

In WotR, the one puzzle (that I can think of off hand) that makes sense is at Seelah's final quest where you get a note explaining the basics and a hint for the solution. Everything other puzzle is poorly explained at best and all are tedious. Owlcat puzzles just aren't enjoyable.

[Sarex]

31 minutes ago, Space KP, Baby said:

In WotR, the one puzzle (that I can think of off hand) that makes sense is at Seelah's final quest where you get a note explaining the basics and a hint for the solution. Everything other puzzle is poorly explained at best and all are tedious. Owlcat puzzles just aren't enjoyable.

But hey, at least the crusade mode is not a pain when compared to kingdom management.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 minute ago, Sarex said:

But hey, at least the crusade mode is not a pain when compared to kingdom management.

I cheated at the kingdom management after destroying my stats once over doing a project before a curse. Truly a terrible experience.

[uuuhhii]

11 minutes ago, Space KP, Baby said:

I cheated at the kingdom management after destroying my stats once over doing a project before a curse. Truly a terrible experience.

just throw a lot of money into kingdom management and endless reload to handle it

46 minutes ago, Space KP, Baby said:

In WotR, the one puzzle (that I can think of off hand) that makes sense is at Seelah's final quest where you get a note explaining the basics and a hint for the solution. Everything other puzzle is poorly explained at best and all are tedious. Owlcat puzzles just aren't enjoyable.

that one actually feels like something could be written in a adventure path

 

[Sarex]

5 minutes ago, Space KP, Baby said:

I cheated at the kingdom management after destroying my stats once over doing a project before a curse. Truly a terrible experience.

I cheated when I saw what a ****fest it was and I even came in with low expectations. I think what they had in mind was kind of a good idea, take the NW2 castle mechanics and make it global, but the difference was that in NW2 you saw a visual impact of you effort and decisions, it also kind of tied in to the game. What we got in Kingmaker was a fun parasite. Nothing you did in the kingdom management mode made any change on the map itself. If you rebuilt some shrine or castle those maps stayed the same.

I think that a pretty big missed opportunity in WotR was that after you retake Drezen there was no rebuilding, it was just magically fixed. That is a pretty big flaw in general with Owlcat's games, there is so little reactivity between the story and the environment. I know it takes work to do variations of the same map and environments, but they could have cut the game in half and shifted the focus on that. The game would have been so much better for it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

just throw a lot of money into kingdom management and endless reload to handle it

If I'm going to be reloading I may as well take the easy way out and cheat.

3 hours ago, Sarex said:

I cheated when I saw what a ****fest it was and I even came in with low expectations. I think what they had in mind was kind of a good idea, take the NW2 castle mechanics and make it global, but the difference was that in NW2 you saw a visual impact of you effort and decisions, it also kind of tied in to the game. What we got in Kingmaker was a fun parasite. Nothing you did in the kingdom management mode made any change on the map itself. If you rebuilt some shrine or castle those maps stayed the same.

I think that a pretty big missed opportunity in WotR was that after you retake Drezen there was no rebuilding, it was just magically fixed. That is a pretty big flaw in general with Owlcat's games, there is so little reactivity between the story and the environment. I know it takes work to do variations of the same map and environments, but they could have cut the game in half and shifted the focus on that. The game would have been so much better for it.

I think there may be a difference based on alignment, the CG and LE had different music at least and I remember slightly different map layouts....but it has been a long time since I played it. WotR is much the same, the big difference between Drezen in my two playthroughs was due to being an Azata or Trickster with my war management having no effect. Anyways I agree on both fronts, it would have been really cool to see Drezen or the Kingmaker city change as you build more stuff. The way it's removed from the game makes me feel like it feel like an add-on of dubious enjoyment.

Anyways.....I'm gonna start a Lich playthrough next to finally play as an evil necromancer.

[Sarex]

Decided to kill

Spoiler

Camellia. I didn't want to go through with her quest line. Guess I just wanted to RP it.

Now I need to figure out who is a good enough replacement for that party slot. Disregarding the damage/tankiness that character provided, the more important thing was the healing in combination with that. Well a good opportunity to try out the other companions.

[xzar_monty]

I don't think there's any question as to who's the best healer.

[Sarex]

I am not particularly interested in the best healer, I need someone who is going to survive the front line. May end up hiring a merc.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

16 hours ago, Sarex said:

Decided to kill

  Reveal hidden contents

Camellia. I didn't want to go through with her quest line. Guess I just wanted to RP it.

Now I need to figure out who is a good enough replacement for that party slot. Disregarding the damage/tankiness that character provided, the more important thing was the healing in combination with that. Well a good opportunity to try out the other companions.

How naughty

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

I am not particularly interested in the best healer, I need someone who is going to survive the front line. May end up hiring a merc.

Sosiel or Daeran on a mount. Both of them can get one for the price of a mythic ability and a revelation or feat, and the animal companion will be a better tank than most things. To boot it adds mobility to get them to the front line.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Next DLC release date is march 7, 2023.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1184370/view/3677786821887571853

"Child of the Manticore, as the name suggests, allows you to play as a descendant of a manticore."

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Space KP, Baby

[Gromnir]

in our opinion, sosiel has access to domains which makes him more valuable to a party than daeran regardless o' almost any build am able to imagine for the a$$imar oracle (misspell intentional). it is possible to turn daeran into a decent mounted dual-wielding combatant, and with the nature mystery added via a mythic powha, you will be able to select a mount plus the friend to animals revelation will serious boost the saves o' all party animal companions-- daeran is a useful companion. even so, sosiel is having access to a few o' the most significant abilities in the game via domains and the mythic impossible domain ability makes it possible for sosiel to choose two or three additional domains. favorite domains: animal, community, madness, nobility. have literal not played wotr since release sans a high wisdom character who has access to the community domain. 

the animal domain provides sosiel a mount.  give sosiel the lunge feat and with his reach weapon, stick him on a legendary proportion dog or boar, then cast frightful aspect, divine power and eagle soul and as long as you got the outflank feat you will be wreaking the battlefield.  

alternatively, add one level o' crossblood sorc to the priest o' shelyn and sosiel potential is one o' your best damage dealing companion casters. 

late in the game you likely need healing less and there is multiple ways to achieve healing w/o a dedicated healer, so the issue eventually becomes almost moot. aivu is good enough to do party heals for act v if you are going azata. the treasure o' the midnight isles vendor sells 199 scrolls o' most healing spells which functional turns any character with decent umd skill into a healer, but especial nenio with her scroll mastery. speaking o' nenio, you may add mass heal to the spell repertoire o' nenio and ember via loremaster.  *shrug* if you do not want sosiel or daeran, ember makes a more than adequate heal replacement particular if you are going azata or angel, so feel free to choose a dedicated front-liner if the priest and oracle fail to meet your needs... but again, sosiel is a brute in combat when proper buffed and mounted plus his domain powhaz make him arguable the most useful companion in the game, though seelah and camellia deserve consideration for a most effective wotr companion award.  however, no companion is essential, even if you choose to avoid hiring mercs. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

"In some situations, the game could freeze entirely in turn-based mode – fixed;"

...

HA! Good Fun!

[Sarex]

So they didn't fix the inn disappearing when you build any military building before it.

[Gromnir]

am admitted kinda at a loss as to how am gonna use ulbrig in a future party. shifters is max bab progression and the griffon shape means the new companion is unlikely a ranged character. feels like a dedicated melee combatant, no? am making a few assumptions, but there is not an obvious replacement companion based on our usual party configurations. is improbable ulbrig fills any meaningful caster role and unless we finally decide to play a paladin, am not seeing ulbrig as filling in for any o' our typical seelah variations, 'cause am gonna be feeling emasculated w/o access to mark of justice. if ulbrig is available at level one, chances are am able to turn him into a skald or something similar, but such don't seem likely.

if am playing a paladin, then seelah may multiclass as a skald with ulbrig as kinda an extra melee combatant?

ulbrig would be a near seamless replacement for geybor or regill, neither o' whom we use save for their companion quests, though am admitting a sacred huntsmaster regill with high dex and every initiative and wisdom boosting item we can muster rare loses initiative to any enemy. even demon lord bosses need stand and take a smack in the mouth from regill and his velociraptor thanks to the gnome's fantastic initiative numbers. we should use regill more often. we don't use regill and am suspecting ulbrig cannot muster regill kinda initiative.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Sarex]

Playful Darkness is bs.