Best builds for Sidekicks?

[Campber7741]

I've begun a new playthrough of Deadfire with my The Ultimate save from PoE1 imported. While I want to stick with my character being a loner, I am going to be recruiting the Sidekicks to assist with ship battles and may bring them along for the DLCs. |

I've currently acquired Rekke and have made them a Fighter/Monk hybrid with an emphasis on dual-wielding weapons (starting with dual Tarn's Respite due to the bug that still exists with Mad Morena's quest) and my own character is a Dwarf Sage (Nalpazca Monk + Blood Wizard) for Citzal's Spirit Lance shenanigans, but I haven't ever used any of the other sidekicks before and am not sure how I would go about building them once recruited. 

Do people have any recommendations on how I should build the other sidekicks? I'm about to blow-up Benweth and will be acquiring Mirke soon so I'd say they are my immediate priority, but Fassina, Konstentan and Ydwin aren't too far behind either.

[Boeroer]

Mirke (Streetfigher/Monk) is very good with Serafen's two mortars + modal on and a focus on Stunning Surge as the main attack option. Of course she will also be very good as single class Monk. 

Konstanten as Skald/Barbarian can be a nice passive debuffer when you give him The Long Night's Drink and pair it with Spirit Frenzy. Any hit with the chant will then apply Weakened (-10 Fortitude) and Staggered (-10 Fortitude on top) and that works very well in combinatio with a Morning Star with modal (-25 fortitude, again on top) and Brute Force (targets fortitude instead of deflection - and fortitude will be reduced by 45 points...)

Fassina can be cool to build as SC Conjurer and then later use gear optimized for bow shooting and use the Essential Phantom in combination with Caedebald's Blackbow. You will then have two shooters on the battlefield that terrify with their auto-attacks. And the bow targets fortitude instead of deflection - see Konstanten.

Ydwen: no special idea, never kept her for too long.   

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Boeroer

[thelee]

ywdin is just a nice generic cipher. i think she's a bit too underwhelming as a rogue or rogue multiclass.

i think fassina as a sorcerer (druid + wizard) can also work real well. you miss out on the really good end-game wizard spells (though as a conjurer, she already misses out on the really good ones), but the versatility and survivability of being a sorcerer is really really nice. you can load up on wizard buff spells (deleterious alacrity of motion or fleet feet for speed, infuse with vital essence, eldritch aim, etc) and still have plenty of spellcasting power from your druid side. i'm pretty sure (though i haven't tried this in any recent memory) that even though you miss out on caedebald + phantom, you can shapeshift + phantom, which is still very nice and available earlier. you can also firebrand + phantom.

 

vatnir is also great, don't forget him! he has a great unique priest subclass that is very good, and i've found any version of him (sc priest, +chanter, or +rogue) to be very good. if you're going chanter, picking up the long night's drink to help your priest spells land is good. if you're going rogue, use lots of mobility abilities  and pick up the spiritual weapon to dual wield axes with a +25% frost lash, and use full-attack abilities (crippling strike is good enough for this, honestly) to stack on bleeding modals; champion's boon for PEN and minor avatar for general self-buffing are good assists.

Edited December 7, 2022 by thelee

[masterty66]

Mirke: Never much used her, but Monks are very good obviously. I would think dual Mortars would work well as it always does, like @Boeroersaid. You could also make her use a single weapon and gear her for crits and have her use Mohora Tanga. If you take Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming she can get into some ridiculous crit chains, especially when you get Whispers of the Wind. I had Xoti as a single classed Monk in a recent run doing this set up and she carried me in Forgotten Sanctum. Wotw is just absurd with the crit chains with that Spear. Her dps was silly.

Ydwin: Cipher or Cipher/Rogue is fine for her. I often have her use Kitchen Stove + Wildshot to max her focus bar early in a fight, and then switch her to Essence Interrupter for single target dps. Then she can do the usual Cipher things like charming/paralyzing enemies or doing single target dps with Disintegrate and Soul Ignition and so on. How I use her really depends on what I'm fighting. I had her using charm spells more often than not in Beast of Winter recently as being able to take a few of those a-hole Burning Archers out of a fight via charm was extremely valuable there. But if I don't need CC as much then I have her dps.

Fassina: Typically use her like Boeroer said. Blackbow + Phantom with Blackbow (make sure to summon the Phantom after you cast Black Bow so it gets that weapon) is always good and she can do it well. Sorcerer like @theleesaid is also a nice combo for her. Roid yourself up with buffs and then dump all those useful Druid dots onto enemies, or storms to cc. Sorcerer makes her pretty versatile since she can heal well too if needed.

Vatnir: Typically I have gone Single Class Priest with him. His kit is amazing and the bonus spells he gets really makes for a diverse offensive arsenal. I typically have him cast a few buffs and then start unloading with his symbol, shining beacon, his bonus offensive spells, etc. You can also summon his battle axes with his spiritual weapon and then have him wade in after he's done casting a few spells and start adding even more dots with the battle axe modal. Only thing is, if you do use him in melee ever, make sure you protect him or use him on the flanks. He can be kinda squishy especially if you keep him in his starting robes. I haven't played around with him as multi class as much so can't comment there.

 

[limaxophobiacq]

Konstantens lack of Int hurts him with a lot of invocations but as a single class Skald he seemed to do well spamming upgraded Eld Nary.

Vatnirs priest class and stats make for a good backline blaster (single class). I recommend going with Sun & Moon + Slayers Claw and opening fights with Minor Avatar. Sun & Moon gives you either +2 fire PL for his regular priest fire spells or +2 cold PL for his Rymrgand spells depending on time of day, and Slayers Claw upgrades his might inspiration from Minor Avatar for +2 Pen making him a great blaster at high levels.

Ydwin as a ranged Cipher/Rogue with Kitchen Stove/Red Hand does solid dps, of course you can also bring her along for Ancestors Memory cheese against megabosses.

Haven't used Fassina or Mirke.

[masterty66]

1 hour ago, limaxophobiacq said:

Konstantens lack of Int hurts him with a lot of invocations but as a single class Skald he seemed to do well spamming upgraded Eld Nary.

Vatnirs priest class and stats make for a good backline blaster (single class). I recommend going with Sun & Moon + Slayers Claw and opening fights with Minor Avatar. Sun & Moon gives you either +2 fire PL for his regular priest fire spells or +2 cold PL for his Rymrgand spells depending on time of day, and Slayers Claw upgrades his might inspiration from Minor Avatar for +2 Pen making him a great blaster at high levels.

Ydwin as a ranged Cipher/Rogue with Kitchen Stove/Red Hand does solid dps, of course you can also bring her along for Ancestors Memory cheese against megabosses.

Haven't used Fassina or Mirke.

That's an interesting point with Vatnir. I'd never thought about how Sun & Moon is good with him regardless of what time of day it is. That's actually really cool and nice in that you don't have to metagame it hard to get a nice PL advantage with him.

I suppose Watershaper's Focus can also be alright with him for the +1 PL bonus if you want him with a ranged wep.

[thelee]

33 minutes ago, masterty66 said:

That's an interesting point with Vatnir. I'd never thought about how Sun & Moon is good with him regardless of what time of day it is. That's actually really cool and nice in that you don't have to metagame it hard to get a nice PL advantage with him.

it also makes for some pretty neat flavor. i never actually thought of using sun and moon like this, just changing what spells you cast depending on time of day (instead i just used the wait option until the "right" time of day came up), even though both druid and wizard could have also pulled this off (druid less well compared to vatnir's bonus spells and wizard grimoire).

Edited December 8, 2022 by thelee

[Campber7741]

12 hours ago, limaxophobiacq said:

Konstantens lack of Int hurts him with a lot of invocations but as a single class Skald he seemed to do well spamming upgraded Eld Nary.

Vatnirs priest class and stats make for a good backline blaster (single class). I recommend going with Sun & Moon + Slayers Claw and opening fights with Minor Avatar. Sun & Moon gives you either +2 fire PL for his regular priest fire spells or +2 cold PL for his Rymrgand spells depending on time of day, and Slayers Claw upgrades his might inspiration from Minor Avatar for +2 Pen making him a great blaster at high levels.

Ydwin as a ranged Cipher/Rogue with Kitchen Stove/Red Hand does solid dps, of course you can also bring her along for Ancestors Memory cheese against megabosses.

Haven't used Fassina or Mirke.

That one for Vatnir actually seems interesting, especially with Slayer's Claw since it's an Axe and can benefit from the modal ability. The only problem I'm thinking of with this build is that I was going to give Slayer's Claw to Rekke as a paired weapon with Scoredo's Edge (was going to make a Rekke build similar to the one at the link below), but I could just as easily replace that with Tarn's Respite using its stacking -1 deflection on hit enchantment or with Min's Fortune for the stacking crit chance effect.

With Ydwin, my mind immediately went to Red Hand purely because of how strong it is. I wasn't planning on doing any Megabosses, but what's this Ancestor's Memory exploit your talking about?

On 12/8/2022 at 1:48 AM, Boeroer said:

Mirke (Streetfigher/Monk) is very good with Serafen's two mortars + modal on and a focus on Stunning Surge as the main attack option. Of course she will also be very good as single class Monk. 

Konstanten as Skald/Barbarian can be a nice passive debuffer when you give him The Long Night's Drink and pair it with Spirit Frenzy. Any hit with the chant will then apply Weakened (-10 Fortitude) and Staggered (-10 Fortitude on top) and that works very well in combinatio with a Morning Star with modal (-25 fortitude, again on top) and Brute Force (targets fortitude instead of deflection - and fortitude will be reduced by 45 points...)

Fassina can be cool to build as SC Conjurer and then later use gear optimized for bow shooting and use the Essential Phantom in combination with Caedebald's Blackbow. You will then have two shooters on the battlefield that terrify with their auto-attacks. And the bow targets fortitude instead of deflection - see Konstanten.

Ydwen: no special idea, never kept her for too long.   

 

That Konstanten + Fassina combo seems really strong in having two members of the party nuking enemies' Fortitude. Any recommendations on what Morning Star I should use with Konstanten? The only two-handed melee weapon I've ever really used with anyone has been Whispers of the Endless Paths.
 

On 12/8/2022 at 4:36 AM, masterty66 said:

Mirke: Never much used her, but Monks are very good obviously. I would think dual Mortars would work well as it always does, like @Boeroersaid. You could also make her use a single weapon and gear her for crits and have her use Mohora Tanga. If you take Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming she can get into some ridiculous crit chains, especially when you get Whispers of the Wind. I had Xoti as a single classed Monk in a recent run doing this set up and she carried me in Forgotten Sanctum. Wotw is just absurd with the crit chains with that Spear. Her dps was silly.

Ydwin: Cipher or Cipher/Rogue is fine for her. I often have her use Kitchen Stove + Wildshot to max her focus bar early in a fight, and then switch her to Essence Interrupter for single target dps. Then she can do the usual Cipher things like charming/paralyzing enemies or doing single target dps with Disintegrate and Soul Ignition and so on. How I use her really depends on what I'm fighting. I had her using charm spells more often than not in Beast of Winter recently as being able to take a few of those a-hole Burning Archers out of a fight via charm was extremely valuable there. But if I don't need CC as much then I have her dps.

Fassina: Typically use her like Boeroer said. Blackbow + Phantom with Blackbow (make sure to summon the Phantom after you cast Black Bow so it gets that weapon) is always good and she can do it well. Sorcerer like @theleesaid is also a nice combo for her. Roid yourself up with buffs and then dump all those useful Druid dots onto enemies, or storms to cc. Sorcerer makes her pretty versatile since she can heal well too if needed.

Vatnir: Typically I have gone Single Class Priest with him. His kit is amazing and the bonus spells he gets really makes for a diverse offensive arsenal. I typically have him cast a few buffs and then start unloading with his symbol, shining beacon, his bonus offensive spells, etc. You can also summon his battle axes with his spiritual weapon and then have him wade in after he's done casting a few spells and start adding even more dots with the battle axe modal. Only thing is, if you do use him in melee ever, make sure you protect him or use him on the flanks. He can be kinda squishy especially if you keep him in his starting robes. I haven't played around with him as multi class as much so can't comment there.

 

That second idea for Mirke actually sounds pretty cool, especially with Mohorā Tanga's Harpooning enchantment to get the damage on it even higher. 

Out of curiosity, would using the Whispers of the Wind ability with Whispers on the Endless Paths cause multiple targets to be hit due to WotEP's unique property to hit multiple enemies at once?

With Vatnir, wouldn't his Spiritual Weapons be kind of bad in comparison to normal weapons? From what I remember, Priest's Spirit Weapons become stronger the more they align with their god, but as Vatnir is not a player character wouldn't their strength be at the absolute minimum?

Edited December 9, 2022 by Campber7741

[thelee]

8 hours ago, Campber7741 said:

With Vatnir, wouldn't his Spiritual Weapons be kind of bad in comparison to normal weapons? From what I remember, Priest's Spirit Weapons become stronger the more they align with their god, but as Vatnir is not a player character wouldn't their strength be at the absolute minimum?

nah, first, obsidian-created npc's don't actually care about your disposition, so they're always at a neutral state (here, it's a 25% lash). second, even if it were somehow at the absolute minimum, it's still pretty decent (~21% lash).

but just at 25% lash, spiritual weapons are already competitive or better than many unique weapons from a damage perspective.

[masterty66]

I am not actually sure how Whispers of the Endless Paths works with Whispers of the Wind. I've never tested that interaction. 

I would think in general any on hit or on crit effects could be nice with Wotw because Wotw will let you apply those effects/roll against many enemies at once. Something like Saru Sichr for example could put a bunch of dots on everyone if you teleport around the battlefield smashing them in the face with it via Wotw. Mohara Tanga is an especially potent weapon however because Red Flag Flying (the proc on Mohara Tanga) gets its own roll which can also crit, and when it crits, it rolls again. So you can see absurd crit chains where it procs like 20 times in a row off of itself and makes enemies explode for tons of damage.

If you search around Constentine did a good thread on weapons with neat interactions like that. There are some other cool ones. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by masterty66

[Boeroer]

12 hours ago, Campber7741 said:

That Konstanten + Fassina combo seems really strong in having two members of the party nuking enemies' Fortitude. Any recommendations on what Morning Star I should use with Konstanten? The only two-handed melee weapon I've ever really used with anyone has been Whispers of the Endless Paths.

First Saru Sichr, then the Willbreaker. It also lowers Will on hit which is good for several good chanter invocations because they target Will (see Ben Fidel's Neck and Killers Froze Stiff etc.).
 

12 hours ago, Campber7741 said:

That second idea for Mirke actually sounds pretty cool, especially with Mohorā Tanga's Harpooning enchantment to get the damage on it even higher. 

Yes, although the PEN bonus is way more important than the damage bonus. I wouldn't max Survival for that alone.

12 hours ago, Campber7741 said:

Out of curiosity, would using the Whispers of the Wind ability with Whispers on the Endless Paths cause multiple targets to be hit due to WotEP's unique property to hit multiple enemies at once?

Yes - but there are a lot better AoE weapons for Whispers of the Wind because WotEP has a cone that you can't aim manually during the execution of WotW...  and thus it often gets targeted in directions where nobody stands.
Better options are the two hand mortars (especially with Blindin Smoke - counts as weapon attack and causes Resonant Touches - and Chain Shot - additional bounce of the AoE of the mortar whichg is also great for Resonant Touch), Keeper of the Flame is very good in combination with Saint's War Armor and Imagined Pain (endless wounds with no received damage). Also Watershaper's Focus with modal (Blast) and Ondra's Wrath is very nice. Mohora Tanga in the offhand and a mortar or Keeper of the Flame in the main hand is also a very good combo if you pick Swiuft Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming. The Red FLag DoT can trigger a main hand attack with Swift Flurry - because alls attacks from Swift FLurry and Heartbeat Drumming will be executed with the main hand weapon, even if it got triggered by an offhand weapon attack.

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Boeroer

[limaxophobiacq]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:21 AM, Campber7741 said:

With Ydwin, my mind immediately went to Red Hand purely because of how strong it is. I wasn't planning on doing any Megabosses, but what's this Ancestor's Memory exploit your talking about?

Not an exploit really. Ancestors Memory is just the most straightforward on-demand source of the Brilliant inspiration (which lets you regenerate resources like spells cast) in the game, which combined with either Wall of Draining from your bloodmage or Salvation of Time from a priest lets you overcome the attrition of resources that tends to be the biggest problem in every Megaboss fight except Auranic.

Edited December 10, 2022 by limaxophobiacq

[Campber7741]

On 12/10/2022 at 2:06 AM, thelee said:

nah, first, obsidian-created npc's don't actually care about your disposition, so they're always at a neutral state (here, it's a 25% lash). second, even if it were somehow at the absolute minimum, it's still pretty decent (~21% lash).

but just at 25% lash, spiritual weapons are already competitive or better than many unique weapons from a damage perspective.

I was definitely not aware of that but am very glad I am now. Thanks.  
 

On 12/10/2022 at 5:28 AM, Boeroer said:

First Saru Sichr, then the Willbreaker. It also lowers Will on hit which is good for several good chanter invocations because they target Will (see Ben Fidel's Neck and Killers Froze Stiff etc.).

Yes - but there are a lot better AoE weapons for Whispers of the Wind because WotEP has a cone that you can't aim manually during the execution of WotW...  and thus it often gets targeted in directions where nobody stands.
Better options are the two hand mortars (especially with Blindin Smoke - counts as weapon attack and causes Resonant Touches - and Chain Shot - additional bounce of the AoE of the mortar whichg is also great for Resonant Touch), Keeper of the Flame is very good in combination with Saint's War Armor and Imagined Pain (endless wounds with no received damage). Also Watershaper's Focus with modal (Blast) and Ondra's Wrath is very nice. Mohora Tanga in the offhand and a mortar or Keeper of the Flame in the main hand is also a very good combo if you pick Swiuft Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming. The Red FLag DoT can trigger a main hand attack with Swift Flurry - because alls attacks from Swift FLurry and Heartbeat Drumming will be executed with the main hand weapon, even if it got triggered by an offhand weapon attack.

 

That's a shame with WotEP. It seems like a really cool weapon but I've been quite disappointed by its performance on other characters in my previous playthrough I tried it on.
Those other weapon combos (especially Mohora Tanga in the offhand) seem like they'd be interesting to mess around with. I might import the same PoE1 save again but make them a Pure Monk instead (like they were in PoE1) to see myself how those weapon combos work together.
 

15 hours ago, limaxophobiacq said:

Not an exploit really. Ancestors Memory is just the most straightforward on-demand source of the Brilliant inspiration (which lets you regenerate resources like spells cast) in the game, which combined with either Wall of Draining from your bloodmage or Salvation of Time from a priest lets you overcome the attrition of resources that tends to be the biggest problem in every Megaboss fight except Auranic.

That makes more sense that what I was thinking about. I thought you may have been referring to some cheese strat that made their fights trivial. E.g. using True Lover's Kiss and then Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure as a Wizard on Dorudugan, then waiting 3 hours for him to die from the Raw damage alone.

Assuming I don't get bogged-down with work again, I'm going to resume the current playthrough and mess around with the ideas from here. Thanks for the replies everyone. I really appreciate you all taking the time to give me your advice.