Solo viable ideas without paladin, chanter, assassin and forbidden fist?

[Not So Clever Hound]

Cool build. How does it play in encounters like Splintered Reef Crypt Exterior, Menzzago, SSS Trial of the Naga, some of the big infested librarians/vithrak fights in SSS? I'm picking those because as far as I can recall, you can't consistently rely on stun/paralyze/charm/summon distraction to shut down the opposition as they offer a mix of powerful range and melee enemies scattered, with big defenses/resistances/immunities, that will happily retarget you and jump on you instantly and with many enemies that can punch through defenses in the 180s (at least on upscaled PotD) with very damaging and/or disabling attacks.

[dgray62]

I have tried and very much enjoyed playing a melee oriented skald/soulblade. It is fine for party play or solo on lower difficulties. For PotD upscaled solo, however, you'd probably be better off with a psion/troubadour, for more reliable focus generation and faster phrase generation for summoning much needed minions. But I'm sure you know this, @Not So Clever Hound!

[Shai Hulud]

18 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Cool build. How does it play in encounters like Splintered Reef Crypt Exterior, Menzzago, SSS Trial of the Naga, some of the big infested librarians/vithrak fights in SSS? I'm picking those because as far as I can recall, you can't consistently rely on stun/paralyze/charm/summon distraction to shut down the opposition as they offer a mix of powerful range and melee enemies scattered, with big defenses/resistances/immunities, that will happily retarget you and jump on you instantly and with many enemies that can punch through defenses in the 180s (at least on upscaled PotD) with very damaging and/or disabling attacks.

Didn't have a problem with Sea Lashed Crypt, Grave Calling makes this fight pretty easy. You can buff accuracy to insane levels vs vessels (psychovampiric, borrowed instinct, +15 from GC) and crit nearly every hit to paralyze individual enemies. Fun fact, you can start the fight with summoning the instruments of death, then attack one yourself to rebuild phrases  (not focus unfortunately). The bow in particular is easy to crit IIRC, think its deflection is around 80. Anyway this tactic can be useful while waiting for enemies to come to you if you start far away. Zerg the fampyrs, their will is pretty low to begin with. I reloaded a save and had 131 accuracy at that point, and had 85% chance to paralyze from the get-go. Use a psychovampric shield or borrowed instinct and it becomes 100%, and they stay paralyzed about 10 seconds. The basic strategy with big groups is out of combat cast psychovampiric, when combat starts summon the instruments of death, they buy you some time to cast borrowed instinct and then you mass paralyze/charm/stun what you can and punch the rest to build focus and phrases, use soul annihilation on the troublemakers and keep mass paralyze/charm/stun when you can.

Menzaggo- didn't have a hard save at this spot so don't recall his stats or resistances but I do remember I snuck past him and started in the northeast corner so I didn't get surrounded by the alguls and fampyrs. Basically you just want to keep your enemies in front of you so the invocations get as many as possible. I did this fight in one try and can't recall more than that beyond the basic strategy outlined above.

Trial of the Naga, just redid that. This fight is hard mostly because of Vela IMO. What I ended up doing is sneaking as close as I could to the back right V thing where all the poison naga are, I cast psychovampiric shield on the shaman pre fight then borrowed instinct, positioned myself so the paralyze cone would hit all the poison naga, paralyzed them, paralyze lasts about 10 seconds and they are easy to paralyze or charm once your buffs are up (I usually prefer paralyze because of the cone size). Problem here is the flame naga archers. The flame naga marauders can be paralyzed easily. The archers also don't come too close, but there were only a few of them, and stun does work, particularly if you upgraded it for +15 accuracy, and it pushes them back. I had Trixie as pet so I could move a little faster but the biggest weakness of this build is you can't move around a large battlefield quickly. No Quarter on Rakhan Field boots works for shorter fights but it is 1 / encounter so I used boots of speed, combined with Trixie it is +50% stride. While the poison naga were paralyzed I zerged the totem, mostly ignored the flame naga sorcerer, the drake he summoned was actually targeting the poison naga which while weird was helping me. Maybe because that's where I used withdraw on Vela... anyway, once I got to the other side I took out the archers or stunned them while re-paralyzing the poison guys then taking them out one on one.

Tough fight and I don't think I can do it 100% yet, guess like 80%. Need to think about how to kill the archers and poison totem faster. The bog oozes are a bigger pain than the drakes IMO. They didn't get through my defenses much, besides deflection, but switched to Devil of Caroc / devil's due which heals about 8 per crit, didn't get below bloodied. Could also use Aldris Blade of Captain Crow which heals on crit but I went fists, didn't want to worry about breaking it. Not sure how much Aldris heals, description says 8, but it is probably more, usually dawnstars and/or might are applied to get about double that. Can't pause unfortunately so hard to find in the combat log...

EDIT: You can actually bait most of the nagas with traps and take them out at the bottom of the arena one at a time. Boring, but makes the fight easy. 

@dgray62 I am playing POTD upscaled solo with all trials except wael (because I need to see stats to figure out the build) and iron (because I haven't perfected it). Have had to reload some as I'm still figuring this out but I think it might be possible for an ultimate run. I did the megabosses with no reloads. SSS is the hardest I think. And the early part of the game where you have to sneak everywhere, have had to reload several times from misclicks.

I'm sure troubador / psion is more reliable because of all the passive focus regen and passive phrase buildup from brisk recitation, but is that not like, really boring? I mean to each his own but I tried watching a troubador/psion ultimate run and it was 100+ hours or something. Might have been you for all I know.

IDK I'm just trying a combo I haven't seen used much and I like the more active focus/phrase gen

Edited December 7, 2022 by Shai Hulud

[dgray62]

47 minutes ago, Shai Hulud said:

I'm sure troubador / psion is more reliable because of all the passive focus regen and passive phrase buildup from brisk recitation, but is that not like, really boring? I mean to each his own but I tried watching a troubador/psion ultimate run and it was 100+ hours or something. Might have been you for all I know.

I agree, Skald is more fun, and it's my personal favorite chanter subclass. It pairs well with cipher for the ACC buffs and DEF debuffs as you said. I haven't tried an ultimate run. I think it was @abotwho did this, and who introduced the wonders of the psion/troubador combo to this forum.

[yorname]

That's very informative, I think I got most buffs right but forgot about psychovampiric shield, and most importantly not playing nearly as carefully as I should. Did you find club and morning star modals necessary for the spells to land? And how did you beat the megabosses? I didn't make it to them with my skald/cipher but during my other cipher runs I had problem maintaining debuffs on them because their defenses were so high that missed and grazes are too often

[Not So Clever Hound]

Thanks @Shai Hulud for looking into this and sharing all those details! Very cool breakdown of your strategies.

For Splintered Reef, I figured as much that you would be milking Grave Calling. Yes it's cool that Animated Weapons are vessels so can be used there like skellies. BTW my preferred synergy with Animated Weapons is on a Lorekeeper, because they're immune to cold so are not damaged by Freezing Pillar, Blast of Frost, Shadowflame etc.

For Trial of the Naga/SSS, indeed I can imagine the headache with the God Challenges on. But interesting to see you can get by by targeting one group after the other. This one often gives me trouble because you can't be everywhere at once and those archers sport 150-ish accuracy with nasty attacks.

Regarding Forgotten Sanctum, one of your biggest challenges might be some of the infested librarians because they have all Tier-3 MIG, CON, DEX inspirations and are resistant to INT afflictions on top. So they will resist all your CC. And they're super fast and hit very hard at level 22 with abilities like Razor's Edge and Inner Death.

[Raven Darkholme]

11 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Didn't have a problem with Sea Lashed Crypt, Grave Calling makes this fight pretty easy. You can buff accuracy to insane levels vs vessels (psychovampiric, borrowed instinct, +15 from GC) and crit nearly every hit to paralyze individual enemies. Fun fact, you can start the fight with summoning the instruments of death, then attack one yourself to rebuild phrases  (not focus unfortunately). The bow in particular is easy to crit IIRC, think its deflection is around 80. Anyway this tactic can be useful while waiting for enemies to come to you if you start far away. Zerg the fampyrs, their will is pretty low to begin with. I reloaded a save and had 131 accuracy at that point, and had 85% chance to paralyze from the get-go. Use a psychovampric shield or borrowed instinct and it becomes 100%, and they stay paralyzed about 10 seconds. The basic strategy with big groups is out of combat cast psychovampiric, when combat starts summon the instruments of death, they buy you some time to cast borrowed instinct and then you mass paralyze/charm/stun what you can and punch the rest to build focus and phrases, use soul annihilation on the troublemakers and keep mass paralyze/charm/stun when you can.

Menzaggo- didn't have a hard save at this spot so don't recall his stats or resistances but I do remember I snuck past him and started in the northeast corner so I didn't get surrounded by the alguls and fampyrs. Basically you just want to keep your enemies in front of you so the invocations get as many as possible. I did this fight in one try and can't recall more than that beyond the basic strategy outlined above.

Trial of the Naga, just redid that. This fight is hard mostly because of Vela IMO. What I ended up doing is sneaking as close as I could to the back right V thing where all the poison naga are, I cast psychovampiric shield on the shaman pre fight then borrowed instinct, positioned myself so the paralyze cone would hit all the poison naga, paralyzed them, paralyze lasts about 10 seconds and they are easy to paralyze or charm once your buffs are up (I usually prefer paralyze because of the cone size). Problem here is the flame naga archers. The flame naga marauders can be paralyzed easily. The archers also don't come too close, but there were only a few of them, and stun does work, particularly if you upgraded it for +15 accuracy, and it pushes them back. I had Trixie as pet so I could move a little faster but the biggest weakness of this build is you can't move around a large battlefield quickly. No Quarter on Rakhan Field boots works for shorter fights but it is 1 / encounter so I used boots of speed, combined with Trixie it is +50% stride. While the poison naga were paralyzed I zerged the totem, mostly ignored the flame naga sorcerer, the drake he summoned was actually targeting the poison naga which while weird was helping me. Maybe because that's where I used withdraw on Vela... anyway, once I got to the other side I took out the archers or stunned them while re-paralyzing the poison guys then taking them out one on one.

Tough fight and I don't think I can do it 100% yet, guess like 80%. Need to think about how to kill the archers and poison totem faster. The bog oozes are a bigger pain than the drakes IMO. They didn't get through my defenses much, besides deflection, but switched to Devil of Caroc / devil's due which heals about 8 per crit, didn't get below bloodied. Could also use Aldris Blade of Captain Crow which heals on crit but I went fists, didn't want to worry about breaking it. Not sure how much Aldris heals, description says 8, but it is probably more, usually dawnstars and/or might are applied to get about double that. Can't pause unfortunately so hard to find in the combat log...

EDIT: You can actually bait most of the nagas with traps and take them out at the bottom of the arena one at a time. Boring, but makes the fight easy. 

@dgray62 I am playing POTD upscaled solo with all trials except wael (because I need to see stats to figure out the build) and iron (because I haven't perfected it). Have had to reload some as I'm still figuring this out but I think it might be possible for an ultimate run. I did the megabosses with no reloads. SSS is the hardest I think. And the early part of the game where you have to sneak everywhere, have had to reload several times from misclicks.

I'm sure troubador / psion is more reliable because of all the passive focus regen and passive phrase buildup from brisk recitation, but is that not like, really boring? I mean to each his own but I tried watching a troubador/psion ultimate run and it was 100+ hours or something. Might have been you for all I know.

IDK I'm just trying a combo I haven't seen used much and I like the more active focus/phrase gen

If you're using SoF this is relatively easy (haven't actually played it with your exact combo so couldn't say it is "easy" per se):

Just take the SoF abuse to the next step and get infinite accuraccy from Scordeos (well 250ish is enough in most cases, 300 if you really wanna overdo it) by weapon switching after getting 20 adaptive stacks, sof quicksave reload, rinse and repeat.

For dealing with Vela you can do the same thing in most fights, belt of Magran's chosen equipped, attack her with a blunderbuss (out of combat), this will eventually spawn a fire blight, which will scare her, now you charm the blight and send a summon in to aggro the actual enemies offscreen, Vela will be scared outside of enemies LoS and you can safely go in.

[Boeroer]

13 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

I'm sure troubador / psion is more reliable because of all the passive focus regen and passive phrase buildup from brisk recitation, but is that not like, really boring? I mean to each his own but I tried watching a troubador/psion ultimate run and it was 100+ hours or something.

Troubadour/Psion is really fun and not boring in my experience - especially because that combo can be extremely versatile and you almost never have to wait for something since there's nearly always enough resources for taking impactful action. Of course: if you focus completely on summons and mind control alone (which is an extremely forgiving playstyle) then it can be a drag - but that class combo can do almost everything well (besides weapon combat). One of the most enjoyable characters I had so far. 

Ultimate runs are always extremely long and tedious imo, especially when it comes to megabosses *zzzzz*... class combo doesn't really matter when it comes to boredom (while watching) imo.  

I like the general concept of Skald but I have two problems with it in comparison with Troubadour:

1. It's difficult to completely overlap two phrases without pause - unless you are a Skald/Monk with Duality oMP:INT...  or max out INT right from the start and concentrate on INT items. 
2. Melee crits are quite the unreliable source of phrases on PotD, especially later in the game against the tough nuts. Well - unless you pick Monk with Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming and use Mohora Tanga (because causing a crit is more likely bc. of two hit rolls per attack - and a crit with the DoT is very likely to lead to a chain of crits which will make sure you get that 1 phrase).

What I like about it are the extremely cheap low-tier-starting offensive invocations, especially Her Revenge, KIllers Froze Stiff and Ben Fidel's Neck. Because should you gain a crit-phrase you can almost always cast such an invocation directly afterwards (since they only cost 2 or 3 phrases).   

Edited December 7, 2022 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

36 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

 

Ultimate runs are always extremely long and tedious imo, especially when it comes to megabosses *zzzzz*... class combo doesn't really matter when it comes to boredom (while watching) imo.  

 

Unless you use monk/priest with Mohora Tanga.

[yorname]

About Mohora Tanga, I read the thread but still don't quite get it, the DoT has an attack roll? Is it for applying the DoT or rolls everytime it does damage?

[Raven Darkholme]

7 minutes ago, yorname said:

About Mohora Tanga, I read the thread but still don't quite get it, the DoT has an attack roll? Is it for applying the DoT or rolls everytime it does damage?

The attack roll is for applying the dot.

However if you crit it will trigger hbd and swift flurry, and with 100% crit chance this will loop endlessly. ( all procs can trigger themselves on crit)

[dgray62]

The DoT has another attack roll, and for some reason it can proc swift flurry/heartbeat drumming, which means you are twice as likely to proc one of them per attack. And if MT is in your main hand, you have twice the chance to proc them again. This means you are much more likely to have cascading crit chains, which can become so long there is a danger of crashing the game unless you are using a really souped up computer to run the game.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, right - but you all didn't really get it.  

The things above are true, but they are also true for Saru Sichr (additional weapon effect - like a DoT or an affliction or on interrupt etc. - does its own attack roll which counts as regular weapon attack) and some other weapons such as Sanguine Blade, Wicked Beast and more. That absolutely helps with Swift Flurry/HBD, but that's not what makes Mohora Tanga so special.

The main difference between Mohra Tanga and all other weapons with secondary attack rolls is that "Red Flag Flying" (that's the DoT, the seconday ttack roll) will proc ITSELF when it crits. And that proc can crit, triggering itself agai... and again... you get the idea I guess. All by itself - it doesn't need any additional ability to do that.

What that means is that even without any Swift Flurry/HBD stuff you will get endless crit chains of Red Flag Flying if you have a 100% crit chance. And enough crit chains even with moderate crit chance.
Now - those DoTs from Red Flag Flying don't stack with themselves - it just refreshes the duration - so those crit chains of just Red Flag Flying are not overly useful by themselves.
You need something else that procs off of weapon attacks. Aha... now think about gear such as Boltcatcher Gloves or spells such as Avenging Storm. Basically everything that gets triggered by weapon hits or crits will work. And even if it ony procs in 10% of cases or so - still viable because you can generate whole chains of crits so relatively easily. 
And yes: Swift Flurry and HBD work with that whole shebang, too! With a Monk it's now ridiculously easy to achieve literally gamebreaking chains of crits - because SF/HBD and Red Flag Flying will fuel each other. It's like one crit from a fat chain might very likely trigger a new fat crit chain - that's why the game tends to crash if your ACC vs enemies' deflection becomes too overpowering - the game can't handle virtually infinite crits. It gets relatively easy to deliver crit chains with thousands points of damage to a (mega)boss - but it also becomes very easy to crash the game against underleveled or just weak enemies.

Other class combos can profit - as I said it's not really about SF/HBD (although the interaction is devastating) - it's about Red Flag Flying triggering itself (=melee weapon attack) potentially endlessly. For example a Druid or Stormspeaker with Avenging Stormand decent accuracy - or anybody with Boltcatcatchers, Gatecrashers really can become a crit chainer then. But beware: triggering 100 Avenging Storms in a fraction of a second will most likely freeze your screen for a moment and also might crash the game.   

Props go to @Constentin Lévinewho discovered this. Nobody else did because I guess nobody else before bothered to use that spear - because its stats just look underwhelming compared to other spears.  

Edited December 7, 2022 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

4 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

49 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yeah, right - but you all didn't really get it.  

The things above are true, but they are also true for Saru Sichr (additional weapon effect - like a DoT or an affliction or on interrupt etc. - does its own attack roll which counts as regular weapon attack) and some other weapons such as Sanguine Blade, Wicked Beast and more. That absolutely helps with Swift Flurry/HBD, but that's not what makes Mohora Tanga so special.

The main difference between Mohra Tanga and all other weapons with secondary attack rolls is that "Red Flag Flying" (that's the DoT, the seconday ttack roll) will proc ITSELF when it crits. And that proc can crit, triggering itself agai... and again... you get the idea I guess. All by itself - it doesn't need any additional ability to do that.

( all procs can trigger themselves on crit)

Well I generalized all procs because for me RFF is also a proc (off the weapon :P).

But ye big props to @Constentin Lévine for making this insane discovery.

[dgray62]

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

The main difference between Mohra Tanga and all other weapons with secondary attack rolls is that "Red Flag Flying" (that's the DoT, the seconday ttack roll) will proc ITSELF when it crits. And that proc can crit, triggering itself agai... and again... you get the idea I guess. All by itself - it doesn't need any additional ability to do that.

This is just insane. I missed this when I read @Constentin Lévine's original post!

[masterty66]

39 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

This is just insane. I missed this when I read @Constentin Lévine's original post!

It was absurd when I used it with Xoti as a monk. And I probably wasn't even as optimized with her as I could be gear wise etc. 

[Boeroer]

12 hours ago, masterty66 said:

It was absurd when I used it with Xoti as a monk. And I probably wasn't even as optimized with her as I could be gear wise etc. 

Yes, I optimized a Ranger/Monk for it - and it became unplayable at some point (except vs. bosses) because my game crashed so much. So maybe not optimizing it is the way to go.

[masterty66]

46 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, I optimized a Ranger/Monk for it - and it became unplayable at some point (except vs. bosses) because my game crashed so much. So maybe not optimizing it is the way to go.

Lol you may be right. I didn't use Heaven's Cacophany with her so maybe that's why my game wasn't crashing. I think I just had her with the Spear and Gatecrashers.

A Ranger/Monk would probably be ludicrous with all that accuracy and crit chance

[Shai Hulud]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:35 PM, Boeroer said:

Yeah, right - but you all didn't really get it.  

The things above are true, but they are also true for Saru Sichr (additional weapon effect - like a DoT or an affliction or on interrupt etc. - does its own attack roll which counts as regular weapon attack) and some other weapons such as Sanguine Blade, Wicked Beast and more. That absolutely helps with Swift Flurry/HBD, but that's not what makes Mohora Tanga so special.

The main difference between Mohra Tanga and all other weapons with secondary attack rolls is that "Red Flag Flying" (that's the DoT, the seconday ttack roll) will proc ITSELF when it crits. And that proc can crit, triggering itself agai... and again... you get the idea I guess. All by itself - it doesn't need any additional ability to do that.

What that means is that even without any Swift Flurry/HBD stuff you will get endless crit chains of Red Flag Flying if you have a 100% crit chance. And enough crit chains even with moderate crit chance.
Now - those DoTs from Red Flag Flying don't stack with themselves - it just refreshes the duration - so those crit chains of just Red Flag Flying are not overly useful by themselves.
You need something else that procs off of weapon attacks. Aha... now think about gear such as Boltcatcher Gloves or spells such as Avenging Storm. Basically everything that gets triggered by weapon hits or crits will work. And even if it ony procs in 10% of cases or so - still viable because you can generate whole chains of crits so relatively easily. 
And yes: Swift Flurry and HBD work with that whole shebang, too! With a Monk it's now ridiculously easy to achieve literally gamebreaking chains of crits - because SF/HBD and Red Flag Flying will fuel each other. It's like one crit from a fat chain might very likely trigger a new fat crit chain - that's why the game tends to crash if your ACC vs enemies' deflection becomes too overpowering - the game can't handle virtually infinite crits. It gets relatively easy to deliver crit chains with thousands points of damage to a (mega)boss - but it also becomes very easy to crash the game against underleveled or just weak enemies.

Other class combos can profit - as I said it's not really about SF/HBD (although the interaction is devastating) - it's about Red Flag Flying triggering itself (=melee weapon attack) potentially endlessly. For example a Druid or Stormspeaker with Avenging Stormand decent accuracy - or anybody with Boltcatcatchers, Gatecrashers really can become a crit chainer then. But beware: triggering 100 Avenging Storms in a fraction of a second will most likely freeze your screen for a moment and also might crash the game.   

Props go to @Constentin Lévinewho discovered this. Nobody else did because I guess nobody else before bothered to use that spear - because its stats just look underwhelming compared to other spears.  

Interesting. Haven't ever used Mohora Tanga, ironically because I prefer weapons that do cool stuff on crit (and DOT didn't make the cut).

Does this work with dual-wielding weapons? LIke Aldris Blade of Captain Crow procs heal on crit, Ball and Chain procs prone, Sungrazer procs stun, Magistrate's Cudgel procs stun, etc. ?

I tried to test this myself but all my saves that far in had Magran's Challenge on and it is hard to read the log mid-combat. I did see the log saying I crit enemies like 30 times, but they didn't seem to die much faster. Gatecrashers did proc, Boltcatchers too, maybe it is limited to worn items?

Also it did crash my game after like 5 minutes of messing with various combinations, and I have an absurdly top of the line PC, so...probably not usable, but cool in theory. It crashed when I was dual-wielding Mohora Tanga and Sungrazer with the fireball crit, IDK if that repeat procced or not, hard to tell.

[Raven Darkholme]

1 hour ago, Shai Hulud said:

Interesting. Haven't ever used Mohora Tanga, ironically because I prefer weapons that do cool stuff on crit (and DOT didn't make the cut).

Does this work with dual-wielding weapons? LIke Aldris Blade of Captain Crow procs heal on crit, Ball and Chain procs prone, Sungrazer procs stun, Magistrate's Cudgel procs stun, etc. ?

I tried to test this myself but all my saves that far in had Magran's Challenge on and it is hard to read the log mid-combat. I did see the log saying I crit enemies like 30 times, but they didn't seem to die much faster. Gatecrashers did proc, Boltcatchers too, maybe it is limited to worn items?

Also it did crash my game after like 5 minutes of messing with various combinations, and I have an absurdly top of the line PC, so...probably not usable, but cool in theory. It crashed when I was dual-wielding Mohora Tanga and Sungrazer with the fireball crit, IDK if that repeat procced or not, hard to tell.

It does proc all of these, but due to the crashing issue you really don't want to dual wield a melee weapon or even a shield.

My game never crashes when I have a main hand ranged weapon and mohora in off.

(and I have 100% cri due to SoF cheese stacking scordeos acc)

[Shai Hulud]

1 hour ago, Raven Darkholme said:

It does proc all of these, but due to the crashing issue you really don't want to dual wield a melee weapon or even a shield.

My game never crashes when I have a main hand ranged weapon and mohora in off.

(and I have 100% cri due to SoF cheese stacking scordeos acc)

Does it have to be offhand for stability? If so that is odd...out of curiosity what are you using main hand? I haven't found any range/melee dual-wield very appealing. I guess if you used Scordeo's Edge and Trophy how they were intended to be used.

Yeah the Mohora Tanga multi proc didn't seem to be a problem it was when it procced other stuff that had graphics I guess. I'm guessing trying to launch 40 mini fireballs at once crashed it, IDK.

I was pretty bummed when I realized Scordeo's Edge could be stacked infinitely. I guess there is a lot of nearly game-breaking cheese, though. I don't mind using these tactics if they're super strong (but still leave some challenge), but infinite melee accuracy was too much for me, same stealing Salvation of Time and casting it for BDD forever. 

[Raven Darkholme]

16 minutes ago, Shai Hulud said:

Does it have to be offhand for stability? If so that is odd...out of curiosity what are you using main hand? I haven't found any range/melee dual-wield very appealing. I guess if you used Scordeo's Edge and Trophy how they were intended to be used.

Yeah the Mohora Tanga multi proc didn't seem to be a problem it was when it procced other stuff that had graphics I guess. I'm guessing trying to launch 40 mini fireballs at once crashed it, IDK.

I was pretty bummed when I realized Scordeo's Edge could be stacked infinitely. I guess there is a lot of nearly game-breaking cheese, though. I don't mind using these tactics if they're super strong (but still leave some challenge), but infinite melee accuracy was too much for me, same stealing Salvation of Time and casting it for BDD forever. 

I'm just using Serafens blunderbuss in mainhand and yeah launching infinite fireballs is a bit much for Unity engine.

It depends what type of game you are playing, in stuff like the ultimate or permadeath solo potd runs in general even with cheese things can go wrong and you ahve to get to Scordeo's first.

In a party run there is just no need to spoil your fun with exploits, just having a cipher and priest in party will have the same effect.

[Shai Hulud]

1 hour ago, Raven Darkholme said:

I'm just using Serafens blunderbuss in mainhand and yeah launching infinite fireballs is a bit much for Unity engine.

It depends what type of game you are playing, in stuff like the ultimate or permadeath solo potd runs in general even with cheese things can go wrong and you ahve to get to Scordeo's first.

In a party run there is just no need to spoil your fun with exploits, just having a cipher and priest in party will have the same effect.

Yeah I don't mind removing recovery so much as infinite accuracy. I guess that's because I grew up playing Baldur's Gate where your fighter mage could attack six times per round with improved haste or later with high level abilities 10 times per round. Honestly POE feels really slow for a RTWP game, especially Deadfire where you generally do one thing every 6 to 10 seconds (half that with a lot of buffs). But in BG you still had to roll to hit things, and I can remember a lot of cheese in that game but nothing that made you a permanently unkillable auto crit machine. 

Of course, you could stop time and empty your entire spellbook in one round, but there were many enemies who would still slaughter you because they were immune to your petty, mortal attempts at time manipulation. 

Anyway I realize the distinction is arbitrary, but even in a permadeath run there are some things I wouldn't do.