Beguiler & Forbidden First, some transparency about the +50% duration calculation.

[Constentin Lévine]

Beguiler are generating focus on deception spells hit, and most of deception spells are AoE. 

So, with a level 20 cipher, when 2 enemies are in the area of (for example) Mental Binding, you are able to spam this spell over and over (if you dont miss) per env.3s .

Spamming the same spell refresh the duration (excepted if the new duration is inferior to the current one), so with a loop of some spells, it is possible to keep the effects active on the enemies, and even if their duration dont exceed the regular max duration, you can calculate quickly :

In first, a crit with Mental Binding cause 14s of Paralyse for the enemy.

• then, the cipher only spam Mental Binding 9 times, with 0.3/2.8 action time. ( 9* (+3.1s) >> 27.9s of extra-duration)
• or, the cipher spam also some other spell, and at a moment he have done 4 crits to the enemy with Mental Blinding and also with other spells. (4* (+7s) >> 28)

For these two situations, the total duration of the Mental Binding effect is 42 (initial 14s + 28s). But with cipher, the current effect is always between 1 and 14s however.

Cipher dont have access to Enfeebling effect, excepted while multiclassed to FF monk.

Enfeebled cause +50% of hostile effects duration, but their Total Duration . In these two case, using FF ability cause +22.5s of Paralyse (50% of 45) . 

Then, recast Mental Binding do nothing (current effect is longer) excepted generate focus, and only a new Enfeebled (when the current Enf. effect is over) can cause a new 50% of total duration including the +22.5s. The tactic is simple, when the Mental Binding duration is below 14s (in this case it is my crit duration (Entropy)) and the Enfeebled effect is always running, a new spam chain refresh the duration and add to the total duration some new numbers.  

Ex : there is 33s of paralyse and 40s of enfeebled when the monk hit with FF. When the monk hit with FF a new time, his cipher side had to refresh for env. 8 or 10s the Mental Binding effect. So on FF hit, this is 50% of 45+22.5+10s (+39s) added to the current paralyse effect. 

With Duality of Mortal Presence, is is easy to not Enfeeble the enemy for a very long time (+10int when using cipher spells, +10con when using FF).

Draining spells self duration like Borrowed Instincts are depending of the enemy debuff duration, so with these rules.

Woedica Priest and the Writ of Mending (the only Enfeebling effect vs will) can be really potent when used after some minutes of Beguiler's spam! As PL9 spell, for most of the fight (without Brilliant) a priest have only 1 cast of that.

 

For Mohora/Azure Blade perspective, spamming deception spells with large AoE can be very nice. 

Dispersed Suffering (Frostfall) work on the same way that Enfeebling do, but have no duration (dont need to wait the enf of the effect to reapply the +20% duration on-kill)

In the past I made some topics related to this, but without the carity for the calculation : https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/126467-class-build-the-duality-of-fractured-presence/ (but this is "extra min-maxed" and not very versatile build, but the idea is the same) and some others because I use Frostfall a lot.

I hope I was clear in my explanations, if that can help to profit better at less for FF ability.

 

 

 

[Exanos]

Will need to reread this again, but if you use Balance Polishing Mod you get access to an enfeebling effect (Pl3 fractured volition if i recall right), you are then self sufficient. 

[Constentin Lévine]

4 minutes ago, Exanos said:

Will need to reread this again, but if you use Balance Polishing Mod you get access to an enfeebling effect (Pl3 fractured volition if i recall right), you are then self sufficient. 

Yes but I dont use modified abilities from BpM (only stuffs like Poison KW that correct a "bug"), and especially this one : Enfeebled for 30 focus sound for me like a cheatcode ! There is normally 4 way to cause this powerful affliction : FF (with as drawback the self damage), Heart Seeker (PL9), Writ of Mending (PL9) and occasionally on cast with Seraphen. (I use often Birta for my test because she is weak to Con debuff, then Weakened from Fractured Volition is transformed to Enfeebled and I dont need other way to get it). But yes you can be self sufficient with BpM Fractured Volition.

[Boeroer]

28 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

There is normally 4 way to cause this powerful affliction : FF (with as drawback the self damage), Heart Seeker (PL9), Writ of Mending (PL9) and occasionally on cast with Seraphen.

Add Perishing Strike of the Rogue (PL 6)

[Elric Galad]

Sometimes I even wonder if I haven't spread Enfeebled a bit too much. That being said, Ciphers do get something close through Psychovampiric Shield, since big Res debuff increase hostile effect duration. It does not apply to already active effects (so won't work with this particular topic) but does go through all kinds of Resistance and Immunity which is a plus. The duration extension isn't usually as big, but can actually be better in some extreme case of very high Resolve foes.

[Constentin Lévine]

Maybe you have underrated the potential of Enfeebled (like me before the old build I made), I mean the affliction doesnt look like an heavy CC effect like stunned, terrified, paralysed or dominated, but all the time (excepted for dominated) they have a short duration (2,4,6,8, and in rarely case 12s). Interfering with these duration can be seen like a Mohora chain, or an infinite heal, because that can turn the fight into a +"infinite" survivability (the target cant attack)/action time (relativity)/ damage deals (like for action time it is like, for the target, all the attacks are compiled in one instant). I think you have made an heavy tweak with Enfeebled-for-all (entre guillemets) and especially with Fractured Volition (but it is only my opinion). Fractured Volition is already a nice debuff with 1 tiers2 aff. and 1 tiers1 aff. for the same enemy, I like combine it with Tenuous Grasp to lower enemy all defenses for cheap, and quickly.

Enfeebled can turn biggest enemy into a puppet, at the condition to know how that can work (not really intuitive in-game). This is also the reason why Frostfall is, for me, one of the more powerful weapon (on top, no resistance or immunity).

-15 resolve from Vampiric Shield + Distraho crit (or other res affliction from items/weapons/passive) help for sure ! 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[Exanos]

Dunno, most hard opponent are Con resistant/immune so no issue there, and for the rest, i rarelly lack cc, even whith lower duration on potd. Enfeebled is also mono target on all class if i recall right, maybe not for woedica but i never tried it...

 

[dgray62]

For Priest of Woedica it is a medium sized AOE (2.5 m)—pretty devastating if you can bunch up the foes.

[Elric Galad]

15 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Maybe you have underrated the potential of Enfeebled (like me before the old build I made), I mean the affliction doesnt look like an heavy CC effect like stunned, terrified, paralysed or dominated, but all the time (excepted for dominated) they have a short duration (2,4,6,8, and in rarely case 12s). Interfering with these duration can be seen like a Mohora chain, or an infinite heal, because that can turn the fight into a +"infinite" survivability (the target cant attack)/action time (relativity)/ damage deals (like for action time it is like, for the target, all the attacks are compiled in one instant). I think you have made an heavy tweak with Enfeebled-for-all (entre guillemets) and especially with Fractured Volition (but it is only my opinion).

Well, there are ways to turn Enfeebled i to an infinite CC, but they are somewhat tedious to do, and works marginally better than Just reapeating the same Hard CC.

How many foes need 9 mental binding? 

Only for toughest foes it makes a true difference and these are often CON resistant so the combo isnt that reliable. 

That being said, I'm not sure I would redo the same change but People using BPM have get used to it so it could be frustrating to reverse the change. 

And apart for very specific combos, I don't think it is even that powerful

Fractured Volition was kind of bad IMHO. Weakened is relatively common so dealing it single target and without any added damages really sounded bad. Such as tenuous grasp by the way. You have much better things to do with your action time. Fractured Volition needed something anyway. 

15 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Fractured Volition is already a nice debuff with 1 tiers2 aff. and 1 tiers1 aff. for the same enemy, I like combine it with Tenuous Grasp to lower enemy all defenses for cheap, and quickly.

Enfeebled can turn biggest enemy into a puppet, at the condition to know how that can work (not really intuitive in-game). This is also the reason why Frostfall is, for me, one of the more powerful weapon (on top, no resistance or immunity).

 

15 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

-15 resolve from Vampiric Shield + Distraho crit (or other res affliction from items/weapons/passive) help for sure ! 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Elric Galad

[L4wlight]

As for BPM, I still think that Enfeebled on Fractured Volition is way too strong for the tier level, especially on a cipher with basically unlimited resources. For other (sub)classes it comes either pretty late or is the main feature.

[Bosmer]

I am not so sure. Ciphers have access to all other tier 3 afflictions (with the exception of terrified) at the same PL or before, blinded even at PL1 in aoe. And with Psychovampiric Shield they have a very decent similar debuff that also provides an inspiration. Fractured Volition is single target and even with the Buff introduced in BPM I don't think that it's a vastly superior debuff choice.

[Elric Galad]

A good thing to point about Enfeebled is that its power can't be adjusted by adjusting it's duration, since a big part of the effect (+50% duration to all previously applied hostile effect) happens instantly. There is even an argument that the shorter is the better since it allows reapplying the initial effect faster.

 

What about Perishing Strike then ? Changing it to immediate Enfeebled for 15s might have been a debatable choice too. You only get it on Tier 6, it costs 2 guiles (harder to spam than 30 focus) and 2 ability point. What somewhat concerns me is the possibility to apply it in an AoE.

Perishing Strike isn't easy to balance since it has to be a quite significant upgrade since Withering Strike is barely okayish on its own and Toxic Strike kind of potent. I could make Enfeebled conditional (as the original but in a more convenient and less antisynergetic way) but it would require an additional change to be worth it IMHO. Rogue has plenty good stuff to spend Guile.

[Exanos]

For perishing strike, maybe a bigger bonus accuracy/damage or targetting deviation instead of fortitude could be enough.

Adding a malus to action speed/recovery would be thematic too giving it an unique flavor.

[Elric Galad]

Okay, so I guess I might have gone too far about spreading Enfeebled.

 

I will turn back Fractured Volition to the original effect, but rise it's Duration to 30s and decrease casting time to 0.5s/3s. The fast recovery is a good way to make it still relevant at high level when you may prefer doing something else of your time than a non damaging single target debuff. Also it would compare better to Secret Horrors and Puppet master on same tier. This would provide a convenient way to apply a CON debuff and Sneak Attack condition to a priority target.

People wanting the old version of Fractured Volition could still use the file from a previous BPM Version.

 

Perishing Strike too would be reverted to its vanilla effect but with a twist. The Weakened to Enfeebled transition will also happen at any time the affected target is bloodied. So at some point the target WILL be Enfeebled, which was the main issue (target could die before Enfeebled happens).

Bosses will suffer an affliction for base 30s when above 50% health, which is handy.

Enfeebled will be easier to apply than in vanilla but not that conveniently as a. On demand effect.

The upgrade will have no effect on CON resistant target (since Downgraded Sickened does not carry the effect of Perishing Strike Weakened) but CON isn't the most resisted affliction and Toxic Strike on the other side is useless Vs Poison Immune anyway...