Priest Subclass of Choice? (BPM + CP)

[patronkus]

Curious to know peoples preference for Priest subclasses. I have done 2 runs recently, 1 with Vatnir (and this was prior to me discovering the amazingness that is Rymrgand Incarnate) and 1 with a Wael Priest mainly for Confusion and Gaze of the Adragan. I've seen people using Skaen priest a lot but never tried it, to me the big Priest abilities are the Symbols which are incredible damage + CC + party friendly package. Magran also seems good as there are lots of items that benefit Fire keyword improving their featrues greatly. IMO Wael priest is really strong, the Symbol isn't as good as others as it doesn't apply an affliction but it does give Concentration which is nice. Wondering what other peoples Priest preferences are in general.

[Elric Galad]

My favorite is Berath because Symbol with Corrode damages is great and AoE Weakened is usually quite useful. The double Incarnate is also sweat, and you get a few other good spells from other classes.

Eothas looks meh (not much spell from other classes) but the Symbol is great (AoE +all defenses on top of damages ; it is arguably the strongest in raw power, even if fire damages is annoying) and the triple summon is arguably the very strongest (you basically summon 2 lvl 20 priests and 1 lvl 20 fighter). The later require the BPM bug correction (without it, one of Berath incarnate does not work). BPM also decreases Eoathas Incarnate duration, because it will be broken without it.

You still need a Tier 8 backup in case you face some foes resistant to your Symbol damage type. The healing/fire beam is great (unless your symbol has fire damages) and Spark the Soul of the Righteous can be super strong with a few summons.

I find Wael and Skaen symbols inferior (and well, Woedica too) but because backup tier 8 spells are far from bad, it isn't that bad as it sounds. They have great bonus abilities from the first tiers.

Magran isn't versatile enough for my tastes, but once more, it is not very critical. SC Priest really requires backup spells when facing fire resistant foes. They have some, it is just that some subclasses won't work well as damage dealers when facing such foes (once more, for SC it is mitigated by Spark the Soul of the Righteous). 

 

So in conclusion : really anything works. So just pick the flavor you prefer.

[NotDumbEnough]

Symbol of Skaen is vs Deflection, which is arguably its primary advantage.

[Elric Galad]

29 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Symbol of Skaen is vs Deflection, which is arguably its primary advantage.

Somehow, I never realized they target different defenses.

Indeed Skaen is great for this reason, and Eoathas targetting Reflex isn't bad either.

Targetting Fortitude isn't great but Symbol of Berath causes Weakened, which means it will cancel CON Inspiration buff to Fortitude and cause Fortitude loss for next hits.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Mechanically I think Priest of Woedica is great. The later writs are very useful. Writ of Mending is an AoE enfeeble that targets not fortitude but will (like all writs). Combined Writ of War + Sorcery is great - there is no immunity or resistance to that unlike vs. RES afflictions.

[masterty66]

Wael is a lot of fun for multiclassing. @thelee's Zealot build should still be good even with BPM. Maybe better because even if you installed the nerf package that makes BDD a 12 second 300 pt damage shield which imo would really let you stay heated up for a while without worrying about dying. A 300 pt shield should hold pretty well even if mobbed by a lot of enemies. Sure that's not as good as a flat death resistance, but it does last quite a bit longer and is still quite protective. Actually planning a run right now with it to see how it does with the bpm/cp installed. I will let you know.

It's too bad Rymrgand isn't a player kit because Vatnir's kit is so strong since he can take fire spells to go along with his frost spells, giving him a very diverse damage kit. But I suppose you can just bring him along too. I like him well enough, though he's sometimes glass cannony if you just keep him in his robes (but hard not to wear those because of the +dmg effects! )

Edited October 4, 2022 by masterty66

[dgray62]

Priest of Wael adds a ton of survivability, since the deflection bonuses from Arcane Veil and Mirrored Image stack, giving you +80 def for non-veil piercing attacks.

[NotDumbEnough]

Symbol of Wael is pretty underwhelming though as it rolls against Fortitude. So does Symbol of Berath but it has Weakened effect attached on the same roll. Skaen has one of the better symbols due to rolling vs Deflection and being pierce damage (normally a downside vs skeletons, but since you're a priest you can just OHKO them), and his mobility abilities like Shadowing Beyond can help you get into position as the Symbol spells all have pretty short range. Priest of Skaen also has better martial capabilities as a fallback against more durable single targets as well as an Incarnate that deals OK damage.

Priest of Magran has the best Symbol, of course assuming the enemy is not immune to fire. Simply having Fire keyword means that you can find lots and lots of +PL for it, and it rolls vs Will. There are extremely few damaging attacks in the game that roll vs Will so it's quite useful. Blind affliction is also very good. Unfortunately you only have Spark the Souls of the Righteous for fire immune foes which tend to be quite common. Even your summoned weapons have a burn lash.

Edited October 4, 2022 by NotDumbEnough

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, dgray62 said:

Priest of Wael adds a ton of survivability, since the deflection bonuses from Arcane Veil and Mirrored Image stack, giving you +80 def for non-veil piercing attacks.

You sure ? That would be weird (even by PoE obscure rules standard)

57 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Symbol of Wael is pretty underwhelming though as it rolls against Fortitude. So does Symbol of Berath but it has Weakened effect attached on the same roll. Skaen has one of the better symbols due to rolling vs Deflection and being pierce damage (normally a downside vs skeletons, but since you're a priest you can just OHKO them), and his mobility abilities like Shadowing Beyond can help you get into position as the Symbol spells all have pretty short range. Priest of Skaen also has better martial capabilities as a fallback against more durable single targets as well as an Incarnate that deals OK damage.

Priest of Magran has the best Symbol, of course assuming the enemy is not immune to fire. Simply having Fire keyword means that you can find lots and lots of +PL for it, and it rolls vs Will. There are extremely few damaging attacks in the game that roll vs Will so it's quite useful. Blind affliction is also very good. Unfortunately you only have Spark the Souls of the Righteous for fire immune foes which tend to be quite common. Even your summoned weapons have a burn lash.

Priest of Magran Symbol is nothing special IMHO. Eothas is way better in my opinion. +15 all defenses is really a great bonus, and it's pretty rare. Everyone and their grandmother can inflict Blind. Meanwhile Circle of Protection is meh due to low duration (unless BPM) and not benefitting from PL, so Symbol of Eothas can carry the role of the "all defense buffer" spell. Cast Shield for the Faithfull and Symbol of Eoaths, and you will be standing at +40 Deflection while your foes die.

 

This topic made me reconsider a couple of previous decisions about BPM priest subclasses. First I will set all incarnate to 35s even the duo (Berath) and trio (Eothas). Eothas subclass only has this for it, and Berath, while well-rounded isn't that special either. Skaen, Wael and Woedica are the 3 subclasses that brings something fresh, while having a bit average symbol and mehish incarnate.

 

Magran has always been a concern for me. It's all about fire damages and the subclass even get fire spells at later level. Ray of Flame is subpar for a Tier 3 and Torrent of Flames is bad for Tier 7. Previously I buffed Magran's Torrent of Flames to foe only and +15 Accuracy but I feel it wasn't enough.

Fan of Flame is okay Tier 1 and Fire Shield is good enough for Tier 5 (Priest Tier 4 is crowded anyway), at least it brings something unique (and a bunch of Ice AR).

So I basically gave Magran 2 new spells :
- Divine Ray of Fire : basically the same, but range 5m->10m and duration 10s->20s. I could have just buffed the damages but increasing range and duration is meant to make the spell feels a bit different and the 20 potential Hits can help for some combos (such as combusting wounds)
- Rebirth from Flames : basically a friendly Torrent of Flames but also fully heals the caster (high Constitution will like) and gives +10 Fire AR for 60s (as much as Fire shield gives Ice AR). The later is important because it is meant to address Magran Priest weakness vs Fire based foes. You won't hurt them much with Rebirth from Flames, but you will fully heal and be resistant to them as well.

So Magran is a Fire damages specialist, but at least you get something unique to do for those battles where fire damages won't work.

[NotDumbEnough]

It's worth noting that the Frost AR on Flame Shield is really just for show. 80% of the time this is redundant since a Frost keyword attack will directly cancel your Flame Shield, since most Frost damage comes from spells with keywords.

 

Perhaps a more extreme proposal for your suggested spells. Maybe give Priest of Magran inbuilt healing from burn damage like Fire Naga, Dorudugan, Rekvu's cloak, etc. instead of massive Burn AR and self heal. Would facilitate a more up close and personal play style (e.g. stand in your own Storm of Holy Fire) and perhaps more interesting than an instant self heal.

Edited October 4, 2022 by NotDumbEnough

[dgray62]

I really like the idea of giving Magran priests healing from fire damage. That would be a fun and interesting buff IMO.

[patronkus]

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

You sure ? That would be weird (even by PoE obscure rules standard)

Priest of Magran Symbol is nothing special IMHO. Eothas is way better in my opinion. +15 all defenses is really a great bonus, and it's pretty rare. Everyone and their grandmother can inflict Blind. Meanwhile Circle of Protection is meh due to low duration (unless BPM) and not benefitting from PL, so Symbol of Eothas can carry the role of the "all defense buffer" spell. Cast Shield for the Faithfull and Symbol of Eoaths, and you will be standing at +40 Deflection while your foes die.

 

This topic made me reconsider a couple of previous decisions about BPM priest subclasses. First I will set all incarnate to 35s even the duo (Berath) and trio (Eothas). Eothas subclass only has this for it, and Berath, while well-rounded isn't that special either. Skaen, Wael and Woedica are the 3 subclasses that brings something fresh, while having a bit average symbol and mehish incarnate.

 

Magran has always been a concern for me. It's all about fire damages and the subclass even get fire spells at later level. Ray of Flame is subpar for a Tier 3 and Torrent of Flames is bad for Tier 7. Previously I buffed Magran's Torrent of Flames to foe only and +15 Accuracy but I feel it wasn't enough.

Fan of Flame is okay Tier 1 and Fire Shield is good enough for Tier 5 (Priest Tier 4 is crowded anyway), at least it brings something unique (and a bunch of Ice AR).

So I basically gave Magran 2 new spells :
- Divine Ray of Fire : basically the same, but range 5m->10m and duration 10s->20s. I could have just buffed the damages but increasing range and duration is meant to make the spell feels a bit different and the 20 potential Hits can help for some combos (such as combusting wounds)
- Rebirth from Flames : basically a friendly Torrent of Flames but also fully heals the caster (high Constitution will like) and gives +10 Fire AR for 60s (as much as Fire shield gives Ice AR). The later is important because it is meant to address Magran Priest weakness vs Fire based foes. You won't hurt them much with Rebirth from Flames, but you will fully heal and be resistant to them as well.

So Magran is a Fire damages specialist, but at least you get something unique to do for those battles where fire damages won't work.

I think if Magran spells were Foe only like Teheku as a Watershaper that could be a nice niche.

[Constentin Lévine]

Woedica Priest is very strong as debuffer, the unique spells have not equivalent from other classes and the second effect from them (cant cast spells, cant use hostile abilities, ect) are not cleared by a resistance to the affliction (first effect).

For exemple, at PL1, the writ of engagement is like you are swift (no engagement).

The pl9 unique spell, Writ of Mending, Enfeebled in AoE, is for me the best PL priest spell.

As SC priest, Spark of the Soul is potentially stronger than Symbols, for exemple if all allies are around enemies (5* the Shock AoE per 3s on them, more with summons or pets).

Hand of Weal and Woe is also very strong with the Aloth's Scepter ( 20%chance to reflect Punishment spells for the whole party) : targeting an allie heal him (targeting an anemy can kill him before the end of the spell), and because the spell is KW as Punishment/Fire/Restoration, he can be returned by the ally (or allies) and then create a new beam.

The healing and damages both profit from Restoration and Fire PL bonus.

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, patronkus said:

I think if Magran spells were Foe only like Teheku as a Watershaper that could be a nice niche.

It was my initial idea but I discarded it.
- For fan of flames, it would have been nice
- For ray of fire, it still wouldn't have been good enough for Tier 3 (compare with Ectopsychic level of ray damages...)
- For Pillars of Flames, it would have been super tedious to implement (since it is an actual priest ability, not a magran specific one ; it would have required a replacement by a NEW ability. Replacing ability is just painful to do)
- For Torrent of Flames, it still wouldn't have been good enough for Tier 7 (compare with Minoletta Precise Burst on Tier 6...)

In addition :
- It wouldn't address Magran problem vs Fire Immune
- It wouldn't be that much Magran fluff. I don't think she hesitates too much before causing Litteral Friendly Fire

10 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

It's worth noting that the Frost AR on Flame Shield is really just for show. 80% of the time this is redundant since a Frost keyword attack will directly cancel your Flame Shield, since most Frost damage comes from spells with keywords.

Well, not anymore in next BPM version.
I've added Frost immunity instead of AR to Flame Shield. Still not broken (and those nagas will get it too  ).
It makes no sense that a mid-level fire buff is weak vs Ice foes.

Note that Water attack would still extinguish Flame Shield. But that's absolutely legit IMHO.

Darcozzini version does not have this problem, as the status isn't fire tagged.

10 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Perhaps a more extreme proposal for your suggested spells. Maybe give Priest of Magran inbuilt healing from burn damage like Fire Naga, Dorudugan, Rekvu's cloak, etc. instead of massive Burn AR and self heal. Would facilitate a more up close and personal play style (e.g. stand in your own Storm of Holy Fire) and perhaps more interesting than an instant self heal.

Well I changed 60s of +10 fire AR to 45s of 10% Fire Absorb  (Now go face Dorudugan with a Potion of Enlightenment)

I have to keep the healing, so Rebirth from Flames isn't poor vs non-fire foe. (also I'm pushing a bit high Constitution builds)

I'm trying to make this spell work vs Fire foes and non-Fire foes, so I couldn't go for a big Fire Absorb without self-healing. Sure you could use your own fire spells to regenerate too, but that would make Rebirth from Flames too much combo-oriented (broken with the right build, meh vs the rest).

 

9 hours ago, dgray62 said:

I really like the idea of giving Magran priests healing from fire damage. That would be a fun and interesting buff IMO.

So you'll have it  

Edited October 5, 2022 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

19 hours ago, dgray62 said:

Priest of Wael adds a ton of survivability, since the deflection bonuses from Arcane Veil and Mirrored Image stack, giving you +80 def for non-veil piercing attacks.

they don't stack, possibly there's some confusion with the similar-seeming Arcane Veil effect from the equipment in FS, which does stack (since it comes from an item).

[dgray62]

Thanks! I was under the mistaken impression that they did.