Ukraine Conflict - "A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny"

[xzar_monty]

6 hours ago, Gorth said:

Which is exactly why it wouldn't surprise if it was Putin's way of expressing "dissatisfaction" with the advice he had been give.

"With friends like these, who needs enemies" or whatever.

But yes, it does appear that the situation is quite messy: the people who tried to kill Dugin, were they pro-Ukraine folks who wanted revenge for Dugin's policies / philosophies, or were they pro-Russia / pro-Putin folks who wanted to express dissatisfaction? No way to tell, I suppose, at least for now. And of course these two aren't the only possibilities.

In the Sandman, Thessaly kills someone (can't remember who) and says "he needed to be taught a lesson". When someone else points out that "But you killed him!", Thessaly just says "Yes. That was the lesson." This Dugin event brought that to mind.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Cheers Bruce, perfectly illustrates the point that "Problem is journalists reading asterisking wikipedia and referencing each others' bad references instead of actually reading/ listening to Dugin himself"

I mean

Wow, one whole journalist. If you want an example of actual handwaving, can't get much better than that.

Thing is, if you, say, called Cheney "Bush's Brain"- or "Bush's Rasputin"- people might disagree, but there would also be a lot of evidence you could point to in support of it.

With this there's... *crickets* when you look for similar evidence of Dugin being "Putin's Brain", let alone things like an aide or confidante. Certainly Dugin himself is consistent on one thing, that he's only an indirect influence. Guess "Putin's episode of Neighbours on in the background while he fixes dinner" while more accurate doesn't quite have the cachet though.

I think the hyperbole and attributing Dugin to direct influence on Putin is unhelpful

The article is also written by the Jewish Chronicle and they focus on anti-Semitism in Russia generally from the Soviet time but they raise parallels  between Dugins rhetoric and Putins propaganda. Thats the influence I am referring to like the example below 

"Dugin’s buzzword, “Novorossiya”, meaning “new Russia”, was repeatedly used by Putin on national television in 2014 regarding the annexing of Crimea, resurrecting the Tsarist terminology of the Russian empire. 

Dugin envisages a “new world” centred around Russia, and Putin’s victorious press release about Ukraine was similarly titled the “offensive of Russia and the New World”. According to Ukraine’s Page News, its proud publication had been scheduled for two days after the Ukraine invasion. With efficiency typical of the Soviet era, somebody forgot to remove it from the automated timer function" 

 

 

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

"With friends like these, who needs enemies" or whatever.

But yes, it does appear that the situation is quite messy: the people who tried to kill Dugin, were they pro-Ukraine folks who wanted revenge for Dugin's policies / philosophies, or were they pro-Russia / pro-Putin folks who wanted to express dissatisfaction? No way to tell, I suppose, at least for now. And of course these two aren't the only possibilities.

It was quite complex assassination.

Bomb seem to have put in car, which was registered in Darya's not her fathers name (according to leaked government documents) during cultural festival which Dugins participated. It seem that it had remote trigger or timer as it exploded five minutes after car left the festival area. Bomb seem to have designed only to kill people inside of the vehicle. 

Assassin(s) had pretty good knowledge about Dugins, their schedule, which car they drive. And they had access to explosives and trigger, were able to bypass Toyota's theft deterrent system and knew where explosive needs to be installed in order to kill driver instantly. They also installed explosive in festival site's parking lot during daylight. Russian investigators believe that it was contract hit, which probably will not make it easier to prove who was actually behind the hit.

[xzar_monty]

I'm not saying what you describe is simple, but as far as "complex" assassinations are concerned, here's an exceptionally good example. This Dugin case falls some way short.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh

Footage (recommended for anyone interested in complex covert operations):

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Malcador]

At least there's something to make wild ass guesses about now.

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

I'm not saying what you describe is simple, but as far as "complex" assassinations are concerned, here's an exceptionally good example. This Dugin case falls some way short.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh

Footage (recommended for anyone interested in complex covert operations):

 

It depends who did the killing. In Al Mabhouh's case most of complexity comes from fact that Israel send it own agents to do the killing.

If Ukraine agents did the hit, it also adds quite lot complexity in the scenario. Like how Ukraine infiltrated its agents in Russia during war time. How Ukraine agents acquired needed information and explosives (as it not that easy to smuggle them over the border). How Ukraine agents hide from Russian authorities and (planned to) escaped the country.

Killing itself is only small part of such operation regardless of fact do you blow bomb in car of suffocate person with pillow in their hotel room.

As target Al Mabhouh seem one that would be more likely to be assassinated by state operators than either of Dugins

[Malcador]

Best theory so far

 

[xzar_monty]

One of the damned things about these is that confessions also mean nothing unless the confessor can provide sufficient evidence, too. For example, since the Swedish prime minister Olof Palme was murdered in 1986, about 130 people have confessed to the killing. It's very unlikely they all did it.

[BruceVC]

Shame the SA media really sometimes gets  international things horribly wrong, I have just heard this

" Dugin was the brains behind the Ukrainian invasion " 

[Mamoulian War]

A resistance group called The National Republican Army is claiming responsibility for the assassination of Daria Dugin.

[Zoraptor]

6 hours ago, Elerond said:

It was quite complex assassination.

Most assassinations take a lot of planning but aren't all that complex when it comes to the actual, uh, execution. Driving up to Dugin's car on a motorcycle and hitting it with a limpet mine or spraying it with bullets sounds more simple, but it still involves almost all of the planning.

You've only really got one more significant step involved here, and that's getting access to the car as setting up a trigger system for remote or timer detonation isn't difficult, even backyard terrorists can do that. You can get around the car issues by cloning the fob though. Which is neither difficult nor expensive, and then the car thinks you're its owner and so does anyone casually walking by. After all, you're not going to smash the key barrel out with a screwdriver like a 13 year old. Bomb under driver seat, then rig it to accelerator or gear shift (if required).

[BruceVC]

https://news.yahoo.com/darya-dugina-killed-partisans-national-185407641.html

Someone claiming responsibility 

This could also explain some of the internal sabotage attacks we have seen within Russia ?

Edited August 22, 2022 by BruceVC

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

[Malcador]

The weaponry fetish in this war is hilarious.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/22/russian-security-service-accuses-ukraine-over-darya-dugina-killing

Estonia is next, obviously. 

[Mamoulian War]

A lot of explosions in and around Sevastopol - Crimea.

[Mamoulian War]

9 out of 10 veterinarians indicate, that being a Putin’s bitch can have serious consequences to your health.
 

EDIT: a more credible source.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Mamoulian War]

Older footage of Russian warcrime - 9M22S attack against a town at the outskirts of Donetsk… 
 

 

[xzar_monty]

In Russia, the FSB security service found alleged assassins of Nazi propagandist Dugina in less than 2 days. Yet, the FSB are searching for killers of politician Nemtsov for 2 733, of civic activist Estemirova for 4 786, and of journalist Politkovskaya for 5 798 days.

 

Of course this can happen even if everything is done as properly as possible: each murder is its own case, and some are more difficult than others. But still.

[Mamoulian War]

This guy sums pretty good the overall plausibility of the FSB statement

 

[BruceVC]

35 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

In Russia, the FSB security service found alleged assassins of Nazi propagandist Dugina in less than 2 days. Yet, the FSB are searching for killers of politician Nemtsov for 2 733, of civic activist Estemirova for 4 786, and of journalist Politkovskaya for 5 798 days.

 

Of course this can happen even if everything is done as properly as possible: each murder is its own case, and some are more difficult than others. But still.

Im surprised you think this FSB  "investigation " has any possible credibility or authenticity ?

" Hope springs eternal in the human breast " I suppose 

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

41 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

This guy sums pretty good the overall plausibility of the FSB statement

 

Thats a good video, it really raises how ridiculous the current FSB investigation is 

[xzar_monty]

58 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Im surprised you think this FSB  "investigation " has any possible credibility or authenticity ?

It feels strange to respond to this. What I suggested was that FSB's investigation is probably fraudulent.

[Mamoulian War]

Looks like, another cunning enemy of Russia has appeared few days ago. Or Zelenskyi started has learned witchcraft

“Ammunition exploding near Timonovo village of Belgorod region due to hot weather”

https://t.me/zhest_belgorod/15369
 

feel free to put the text into google translate.

 

Edit: The heat must be really extraordinary, as there are reported more explosions today

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Mamoulian War]

21 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

9 out of 10 veterinarians indicate, that being a Putin’s bitch can have serious consequences to your health.
 

EDIT: a more credible source.

 

 

It is assumed, that the target of the attack was Igor Telegin.

 

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, Mamoulian War said:

“Ammunition exploding near Timonovo village of Belgorod region due to hot weather”

Stands to reason. After all, the Moskva sank in a storm that must have been extraordinarily heavy but small, because no one else noticed it -- and there are plenty of satellites and such observing that sea.