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I seem to be doing the same thing every run; 1. send tank in.  2. Cast/fire from backline and/or join tank.  I am rarely using abilities like Charge, Leap, Sprint or Flagellants Path.  Escape is probably my most used "dash" ability but literally never used its higher level versions (3 guile looks a lot).

Most of the dash type abilities come mid/late game which is an issue to focus a build around, I think Fighters Charge and Rogues Escape are the only early game options?  I guess I could start off with ranged weapons then switch, though I know I could use Mortars and dash through a group for lots of aoe damage i'd like to do a melee build.

The secondary thing I'm thinking of is what can the build do in fights with no "weak" backlines where mobility won't be as useful.  I was looking at MC Monk (Forbidden Fist) + Rogue (subclass?) so can Enfeeble (Konstanten debuffing Fort) before Ring the Bell or Toxic Strike. Is 3 guile Shadow Step ever worth it for the Paralyze over 1 guile Escape? I don't want to burn through all resources killing "weaker" backlines to then struggle against the "bosses". 

Alternatively a "Brawler" Monk+Fighter, the fighters health regen to offset Forbidden Fist self damage and early-ish Charge ability.  Plus accuracy and hit->crit boosting for the Monks extra attacks on crit.  Though I can't think of a good synergy for a Fighter ability with Enfeebled maybe i'm looking for too many in one build.

Any fun build ideas?

Edited by summatsupeer
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How about Forbidden Fiat/trickster? You have flagellans path, escape etc. And that build is sturdy enough to tank a little bit with good defenses.

or maybe sc monk and  use all the fun abilities (skyward kick, raised torment, launching kick) and finally whispers of the wind?

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2 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

image.jpeg.542363441de54219721a96563f5aa1d4.jpeg

This Forbidden Fiat rolls over enemies even on difficult terrain and hits like a truck...

It's a real trickster too: you never know what's gonna happen when you turn on the ignition.

 

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If you get your RES high enough (i.e., 18 at start and then boosted by items and buffs up to around 30) and use clarity of agony, you won't need to worry about healing, as the FF curse will be so short you'll only get one tick of raw damage and then heal by a lot more, so you'll get a steady stream of healing from the ability. So a SC FF monk is totally viable. That said, a brute would be even sturdier from start to finish, and pretty much indestructible once you get unbending. You might also consider a ravager. Leap is by far by favorite mobility ability.

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The best mobility abilities are Escape (rogue) and Evasive Roll (ranger) - both have minimal cost and have no recovery. Leap, Charge and Flagellant's Path are IMO too costly for what they do.  However you can simply do a very speedy character immune to engagement. A monk/rogue can stack Fast Runner and Long Stride while also adding Boots of Speed and Ruata's Walking Cloak. Then you give him Nomad's Brigandine (enchanted with Tactical Withdraw) and he can move freely on the field while also triggering some free Ripostes (not sure if Hearbeat Drumming/Swift Flurry works from Riposte).

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58 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

(not sure if Hearbeat Drumming/Swift Flurry works from Riposte).

If Swift Flurry proc or another attack from an ability (no auto-attack) can proc HbD or another Swift Flurry , then a riposte attack should do the same. I cant take a look for the moment, but I think about that :

sunandmoon.thumb.png.e7dca8ad094a3fc6f9b03353b1be00cc.png998488_TOURMENT6PROC.thumb.png.f488b688436e587922be7caf5c85834f.png

In the first screen, 1 auto-attack with Sun and Moon, 12 Swift Flurry procs ; in the second screen, 1 Torment Reach (so active ability), 6 Swift Flurry procs, only for the first target -- no Heartbeat Drumming proc. 

HbD and Riposte are passive abilities, but I think they work in the same way.

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On 4/10/2022 at 4:21 PM, Dalzar said:

How about Forbidden Fiat/trickster? You have flagellans path, escape etc. And that build is sturdy enough to tank a little bit with good defenses.

or maybe sc monk and  use all the fun abilities (skyward kick, raised torment, launching kick) and finally whispers of the wind?

I wasn't sure about Trickster if I'd be spending most of the Guile on Escape and damage abilities

18 hours ago, dgray62 said:

If you get your RES high enough (i.e., 18 at start and then boosted by items and buffs up to around 30) and use clarity of agony, you won't need to worry about healing, as the FF curse will be so short you'll only get one tick of raw damage and then heal by a lot more, so you'll get a steady stream of healing from the ability. So a SC FF monk is totally viable. That said, a brute would be even sturdier from start to finish, and pretty much indestructible once you get unbending. You might also consider a ravager. Leap is by far by favorite mobility ability.

I want to like Forbidden Fist but for some reason it hasn't really interested me, I think with the high RES it feels to me like it should be more of a main tank build which i'm not looking for.

Brute is interesting with Fighters healing to offset Beserkers self damage.  Fighter gives accuracy, barb gives might and attack speed, both give crit... Does Charge attack enemies it hits with your weapons? Pretty sure i've seen builds built around that but not sure if patches have changed it.  How does Mob Stance and Blood Thirst combine?

Ravager was something I looked at, the Barbs crit chance and attack speed+resets combined with Monks extra hits on crit seem a great combo.  I wish the Barbarian sub-classes were more interesting to me.  I find the self damage of Berserker so annoying scaling off Might so I'd like some self healing to offset the frenzy self damage and the other sub-classes don't seem worth using.  Not sure what Monk subclass would be best for this combo.

13 hours ago, Kaylon said:

The best mobility abilities are Escape (rogue) and Evasive Roll (ranger) - both have minimal cost and have no recovery. Leap, Charge and Flagellant's Path are IMO too costly for what they do.  However you can simply do a very speedy character immune to engagement. A monk/rogue can stack Fast Runner and Long Stride while also adding Boots of Speed and Ruata's Walking Cloak. Then you give him Nomad's Brigandine (enchanted with Tactical Withdraw) and he can move freely on the field while also triggering some free Ripostes (not sure if Hearbeat Drumming/Swift Flurry works from Riposte).

I have considered a speedy run around character before as I'd not used the Barbarians "Sprint" abilities until recently, Leap always seemed better. It does look interesting but would need to be quite focused with the items and multiple ability points which worried me for fights with fewer but strong enemies.

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It's not exactly melee but going off of @Kaylon's speedy char idea, a Blood Mage/Troubadour or Blood Mage/Helwalker can speed around like a madman and be immune to engagement to seek optimal placement while unleashing devastating "walking bomb" type abilities like Precisely Piercing Burst, Torrent of Flames, Death Ring, Her Tears or Spirit Lance + Stunning Surge/Raised Torment. Buffs and Repulsive Visage can keep you reasonably safe. It would require some micro but would be practically a mass-destruction speedy gonzales. It could be the target of your resident Cipher's Amplified Wave for additional walking bomb fun.

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Following up on @Not So Clever Hound's excellent suggestions, you could also complete the triangle by considering a cantor, perhaps with the Helwalker/Skald subclasses. You might find @Jayd's Wind Path Cantor build to be of interest, as it's designed to maximize movement speed, so you can zip around, frequently unleashing powerful invocations like Her Revenge.

Edited by dgray62
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Posted (edited)

Been thinking about a Rogue (Assassin) to try and make use of Escape, Shadowing Beyond or Shadow Step and/or Smoke Veil, Smoke Cloud or Pernicious Cloud.  If using most of the Rogues Guile for those abilities I think I should multiclass with one that has a good damage ability or maybe something with a DOT ability to finish enemies off?

Assassin gives Pen, accuracy and crit damage so to make use of the extra crit damage I think the second class should also increase crit rate to make sure that attack from stealth does as much damage as possible.  I'm thinking Fighter with its Disciplined Strikes for more accuracy and crit rate, Mule Kick that gives extra accuracy+damage plus a bit of protection and Penetrating Strike for more damage+pen.  Maybe a Devoted with a one-handed weapon? 

Another idea was involving a Skaen Priest since it has many of the same abilities as the Rogue?

Is this viable on PotD or do enemies just have too much HP/DR to "assassinate" and run/hide? 

Edited by summatsupeer
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Assassins are great fun, and are one of the classes that can most easily solo the game on PotD difficulty. As for multi class combos, have you considered cipher? Ciphers bring an additional damage boost as well as great DoT abilities, and thus seems to be just what you are looking for. And don't forget borrowed instincts, one of the best buffs in the game, that gives you a huge boost to ACC and all defences. I have played a melee assassin/soul blade which was great fun. If you are interested in a ranged mindstalker, then I'd recommend @Not So Clever Hound's Soul Sniper Mindstalker build. As for Psyblade, I also played @Not So Clever Hound's Assassin/devoted build, which you might want to check out as it's a powerful combo. You might also consider single class trickster, to access nice high level rogue and wizard abilities.

As for a zealot build, I wouldn't recommend Priest of Skaen, since it gives you as bonus spells rogue abilities that you'll already have. You might consider a different subclass that would add something extra, like Priest of Wael, for extra defensive buffs (wizard spells) that you wouldn't otherwise have access to.

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I second @dgray62 on the Priest type choice. It also depends on your gameplay: for pure hit n'run style, having a couple "free" extra rogue mobility/invisibility/damage with Skaen is nice as you might not use other priest spells anyway. Guile ain't cheap :). So you could zap and stealth and murder for a bit longer. Otherwise Wael is best indeed, Rymrgand would be fun for the dual axes as spiritual weapon but it's only for Vatnir unless you mod.

Here is also a SC Trickster rundown that can do nasty things on PotD:

 

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I was thinking Skaen so could get those abilities through that class and use Guile for different abilities.  For example I could Escape and Shadowing Beyond twice and from Rogue I could do Escape and Shadow Step or skip that line entirely and use the Guile for Smoke, Crippling Strike, Confounding Blind / Gouging Strike or Strike the Bell, maybe even Toxic Strike since I could self-buff INT.

The talk earlier of Wizards and Chanters got me thinking.  Does the assassins attack from stealth bonus apply to a spell if its <2m from target? (I don't trust the games descriptions anymore).  For example use Smoke then run in and use a Chanters invocation such as Seven Nights or Wizards spell like Minolettas Piercing Burst or Death Ring?

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15 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

I was thinking Skaen so could get those abilities through that class and use Guile for different abilities.  For example I could Escape and Shadowing Beyond twice and from Rogue I could do Escape and Shadow Step or skip that line entirely and use the Guile for Smoke, Crippling Strike, Confounding Blind / Gouging Strike or Strike the Bell, maybe even Toxic Strike since I could self-buff INT.

The talk earlier of Wizards and Chanters got me thinking.  Does the assassins attack from stealth bonus apply to a spell if its <2m from target? (I don't trust the games descriptions anymore).  For example use Smoke then run in and use a Chanters invocation such as Seven Nights or Wizards spell like Minolettas Piercing Burst or Death Ring?

Assassinate bonus applies all spells made from invisibility (backstab has range parameter) and blood mage has access to arkemys brilliant departure, so it is a great combo. 

Edited by Dalzar
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Spellblade is interesting me as I don't tend to mix melee + caster much so could be something new.  I think I usually get stuck at character creation struggling to decide how I should balance attributes and build them 🤔.  Especially Wizards with so many spell options.

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1 minute ago, summatsupeer said:

Spellblade is interesting me as I don't tend to mix melee + caster much so could be something new.  I think I usually get stuck at character creation struggling to decide how I should balance attributes and build them 🤔.  Especially Wizards with so many spell options.

Max int and good per + dex.  Dump res If u have to.  Low con and might makes blood sacrifice tougher but on the other hand one cast of corrosive siphon is more than enough to get your health back. After you get arkemys brilliant departure you prolong it with wall of draining and cast no damage cc-spells without breaking the invisibility. 

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Posted (edited)

Whilst I might revisit the Spellblade later on, it doesn't feel like what i'm after right now.  After talking and thinking about the assassin subclass so much, I think thats what I want to focus on as a melee character more than magic.

To make the most of that Assassinate ability you really want a crit hit so been trying to decide if single, or two handed weapons are better.  Two Handed gives the higher base damage so makes sense but you get more accuracy and crit conversion if single handed.

With that in mind i've been thinking about multiclassing the Rogue (Assassin) with:

  1. Barbarian (Beserker): Marauder - As neither have extra accuracy/perception (except for first hit of assassinate) I was thinking single handed might be better.  Berserker gives more Might, Pen, Attack Speed and Con so can hopefully survive a few hits better, which would be likely to happen with the low Deflection.  The Confused (INT) penalty shouldn't matter too much besides shorter afflictions but Guile will mostly be for Escape/Shadow/Smoke.  Gets that Hit to Crit bonus to but the "on kill" abilities might be a bit wasted since don't want to have lots of enemies nearby.  Edit: Beserkers take self damage which I totally forgot, im guessing the assassin extra damage taken affects that so probably a bad idea.
  2. Monk (Nalpazca): Shadowdancer - I don't want to be a tanky riposte character hence not Forbidden Fist, taking even more damage from Helwalker seems risky. Am considering Shattered Pillar though.   I figured as Nalpazca whilst invisible i'd still be gaining wounds.  No self perception buffs but get Might and +2 Pen ability and a lot of abilities are Primary Attack so Single handed weapon?  With good chance of crit on the first hit should get free hits with Swift Fury (plus attack speed) and Heartbeat Drumming to help finish off whatever we hit initially with Assassinate.  Plus Fire lash from Turning Wheel that also gives INT so maybe could pickup Toxic Strike for tough enemies?  Maybe Lightning Strikes with its damage lash would give more guaranteed damage?
  3. Fighter (???): Swashbuckler - Devoted for even more pen and crit damage? Not sure about limiting to one weapon type though.   Disciplined Strikes seems perfect for an Assassin plus can use Mule Kick to help protect myself.  Conqueror Stance for more accuracy but I don't think i'll need anymore raw accuracy, hit to crit is probably more useful.  Does using Clear Out from invisibility apply assassinate to each hit or just the first person you strike?
  4. Paladin (Bleak Walker): Holy Slayer - Sworn Enemy -> Stealth -> Flames of Devotion seems like it is possibly the most damage you can do in one hit?  Can add a small accuracy and hit to crit chance through Exalted Focus but no Might or "free hits".  The rest of the kit looks a bit defensive though but could just put more points into Rogue abilities so have more flexibility.
  5. Priest (Skaen): Zealot - Still thinking about this, even though not as flexible as other Priests since same abilities I can save some Guile and go into different Rogue abilities.  Get access to Healing+Buffs though feels a bit of a Magic character.

Edit: I'm favouring Shadowdancer currently.  Struggling to decide on weapon(s) to, i'd love to use Dagger / Stiletto for more of the assassin style but the fast but low base damage doesn't fit for a bonus that is for just 1 hit...

Edited by summatsupeer
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